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RE: New Units for PC - 12/14/2015 8:07:14 PM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

Thanks!

I notice a few interesting things in those shots:

1. by far the biggest surprise is the inclusion of Japan (apparently a late war scenario):
http://www.slitherine.com/screenshots/original/game_1450092535_4.jpg
It`s pretty cool. It also means I`m gonna have quite a few more edits to make to update the mod to the new version. On the other hand, it opens the door to a Pacific expansion. I know there`s also OoB:P out there, but I think there is room for a Pacific General remake in 2d.

2. the second thing I wasn`t expecting to see is the use of the coast graphics on land:
http://www.slitherine.com/screenshots/original/game_1450092535_6.jpg
The associated shadow is blueish because it is meant to go on water so it really looks odd over grass. Together with some roads and railroads that go over rivers without any bridges it makes the maps feel more like belonging to a rushed mod from a few years back. I hope they`ll put more effort in polishing the maps.

3. as expected Finland was included too:
http://www.slitherine.com/screenshots/original/game_1450092536_8.jpg
I see a Finnish Ski Infantry unit (which reminds me that we need to make this unit too) and also, the artillery next to it seems larger than a 75mm so I wonder what it is (captured unit maybe?).

4. there are also a few new soviet graphics and the Stalingrad scenario could be interesting too.

Btw, as far as this project is concerned, how about implementing the Finnish Jaegers as a switch between a ski infantry and a bicycle infantry unit (similar to the Japanese Bicycle Infantry)? I think it`s the best way to portray them and it would be a very useful unit too with good mobility in winter (skies) and dry land (bicycles).

quote:

By late 1930's jaeger units of Finnish Army were jaeger battalions (J��k�ripataljoona), which were bicycle infantry that fought as ski-infantry in wintertime. These were to be type of jaeger troops used in World War 2.

Source:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/FORMATIONS6.htm

< Message edited by R35 -- 12/14/2015 9:09:20 PM >

(in reply to Ballermann)

Post #: 181

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 5:37:18 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

R-35

SU-57 57mm Tank Destroyer Halftracks

Link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/9u78mk

it is one of the forgotten of units that were delivered to Russia under Lend-Lease
I am very happy that H.Balck has made this unit!!!

At this point in his DLS is missing a few items from the list of lend-lease

"Matilda" Mk.IIA (Lend-lease was delivered 1084 tanks)
"Churchill" Mk.III (Lend-lease was delivered 310 tanks)
M3 "Stuart" (Lend-lease was delivered 1676 tanks)
M3A1 "Scout" (Lend-lease was delivered 3340 armored cars)
Willys MB with MG Maxim (Lend-lease was delivered 77972 cars)

also
БМ-31-12 "Andryusha" mounted on the Studebaker US6 ( almost all the rocket launchers were mounted on Studebakers at the end of the war)
So it were called in the troops - Andryusha was brother Katyusha

by the way
Interesting figures
During the war, Soviet industry produced 205,000 trucks.
While the delivery of Lend-Lease amounted to 401,000 trucks.

< Message edited by Brazenman -- 12/16/2015 7:44:35 AM >

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 182

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 6:28:36 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: R35

EDIT: what version of T-34 is the mine clearing unit based on? I need to know what stats to give it. Also, when should it enter service?

Mine trawl PT-3 (for the series of T-34-76 and KV-1S) was developed in 1942 under the leadership of engineer Colonel PM Mutaleva. Manufactured in the same year, a prototype of the trawl has been successfully tested and was adopted and in April 1943 put into mass production at the Tula Machine-Building Plant. Trawl PT-3 has been widely used in combat during World War II. The first tank regiment with PT-3, was formed in mid-1943 and is aimed at the Voronezh Front, where he received his baptism of fire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: R35

quote:

BM-8-36 82mm Rocket Launchers
(Last missing Rocket Launcher)

Wikipedia says it was approved in August 1941. Any idea when it actually entered service?

In the end of August 1941 Moscow plant "Compressor" and "Krasnaya Presnya" produced the first series -72 Rocket Launchers, and in November the plant produced yet 270 Rocket Launchers.

so that September or October ...

< Message edited by Brazenman -- 12/16/2015 7:34:06 AM >

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 183

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 3:14:18 PM

Karaganov

Posts: 382
Joined: 1/13/2015
From: Moscow - Hero City
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brazenman

quote:

ORIGINAL: R35

EDIT: what version of T-34 is the mine clearing unit based on? I need to know what stats to give it. Also, when should it enter service?

Mine trawl PT-3 (for the series of T-34-76 and KV-1S) was developed in 1942 under the leadership of engineer Colonel PM Mutaleva. Manufactured in the same year, a prototype of the trawl has been successfully tested and was adopted and in April 1943 put into mass production at the Tula Machine-Building Plant. Trawl PT-3 has been widely used in combat during World War II. The first tank regiment with PT-3, was formed in mid-1943 and is aimed at the Voronezh Front, where he received his baptism of fire.

PT-34 - Modification created on the basis of the T-34 Model 1943

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 184

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 4:27:02 PM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

Thank you for the info!

quote:

Willys MB with MG Maxim (Lend-lease was delivered 77972 cars)

Is this meant to be another staff car? I`m looking at Karaganov`s post here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3938767

quote:

51503
so will be more correct

Willys-Jeep was used as a staff car basically

If it`s a staff car, do you want it with a machine gun? If it is armed then people are gonna use the division`s HG to attack other units which seams somewhat stretched. Not to mention that the other staff cars are so far unarmed.

Speaking of which, what is the answer to that question. Is the car itself the HQ unit or is it only the transport for the HQ unit?

EDIT: btw, any idea to what extent that mine clearing device mounted on the T-34 impacted on its speed? I`m thinking to give it a speed and initiative (bigger, clumsier, slower I`m guessing) reduction. Otherwise, why would anyone bother with the regular T-34 and not make a full corps of PT-34 if they have the same stats and clear mines too? :D

< Message edited by R35 -- 12/16/2015 7:51:32 PM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 185

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 7:39:14 PM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

R-35

UE
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Renault_UE.php

Renault UE(f) 37mm PaK36

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/1lkyvn

UE-Schlepper 630(f)

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/drf0jn

Senileta Malaxa tipul UE

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/q086m2

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 186

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 7:49:34 PM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: R35

EDIT: btw, any idea to what extent that mine clearing device mounted on the T-34 impacted on its speed? I`m thinking to give it a speed and initiative (bigger, clumsier, slower I`m guessing) reduction. Otherwise, why would anyone bother with the regular T-34 and not make a full corps of PT-34 if they have the same stats and clear mines too? :D

Oh yeah! Of course tanks with mine clearing were much less mobile and more vulnerable.

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 187

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 8:07:29 PM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
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About Willys MB
It can be
1) Staff unit (without MG!!!)
2) a recon unit with 12.7-mm MG and MG-AA
3) MLRS BM-8-12 (mounted on the Willys MB)
4) transport for 120-mm Heavy Mortar 1938/43

http://www.o5m6.de/willys_mb.html

Jeeps-Willys were very popular in the Red Army

< Message edited by Brazenman -- 12/16/2015 9:18:02 PM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 188

RE: New Units for PC - 12/16/2015 10:53:41 PM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

About the new transports. Guys, I have to tell you that there is only a limited number of transports that we can implement so you may need to plan wisely.

Since we tie transports to certain units we need to use a trait for each transport of a faction and - unless the limit was pushed up with recent updates (I haven`t tested yet) - there can only be 32 traits as far as I know. We are currently using 25 of those slots(of which some are inherited from vanilla PzC, like air, glider, sea etc.). So only 7 still available. We might be able to shave off a couple of them through better organization, but that`s about it.

Bottom line, smaller factions have relatively few transports currently so they can get many more, but any new transport added for the soviets and germans from now on will take another trait. We need to test to see if the 32 limit still stands and if it does maybe it will change with the patch that will accompany the next expansion, but until we know for sure we need to plan accordingly.

Also, take into consideration that we haven`t yet used any transport trait for the air transports and I think we should, if possible. For example I`d need a trait so that you can`t load vehicles in small, infantry size gliders, but only on the large ones. Also, at least another trait should be used for the transport aircraft of the Soviets to stop their land units using american and british transports (and vice-versa) when all three are present on one map (like in the 1945 Germany scenarios). Ideally, there should be another one used so british and americans don`t interchange planes, but that`s not so much of a stretch when it happens and I think we can live with it.

quote:

Senileta Malaxa tipul UE

Cool beans! :D This means only 4 more grey Romanian units need to be converted:

75mm Schneider 1897 artillery
40mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns
Horse Transport
Horse Transport Pio

Edit: slight correction in numbers.

< Message edited by R35 -- 12/17/2015 12:53:13 PM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 189

RE: New Units for PC - 12/17/2015 8:57:02 AM

Ballermann

Posts: 30
Joined: 1/13/2013
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: R35

About the new transports...

Translated by google (I do not know whether it is so evident?) :

"heavypull" is indeed used not only by Germany but also from GB, then one can also make "lightpull" or notified with new self.
So you have to respect the nations Transport Classes then installing one can incorporate about 25 new transport Classes.
Now is also so in the original with the Sd.Kfz . 7 and the Matador both use "heavypull".

_____________________________

Sorry, for my bad school english...

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 190

RE: New Units for PC - 12/17/2015 11:52:01 AM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Translated by google (I do not know whether it is so evident?)

Then google is doing a reasonable job with its translator.

quote:

"heavypull" is indeed used not only by Germany but also from GB, then one can also make "lightpull" or notified with new self.
So you have to respect the nations Transport Classes then installing one can incorporate about 25 new transport Classes.
Now is also so in the original with the Sd.Kfz . 7 and the Matador both use "heavypull".

I know. We already used most of them for the germans and soviets, including lightpull and heavypull.

2141 T-20 Komsomolets - lightpull
2143 Voroshilovets - heavypull

2104 Mercedes 1500A - lightpull
118 SdKfz 7 (SdKfz_7) - heavypull

The soviets for example have 18 land transports now. I have a list with all land transports of all faction and their corresponding traits so I don`t lose track of them. I will post it eventually to make it easier to mod the equipment file.

(in reply to Ballermann)

Post #: 191

RE: New Units for PC - 12/17/2015 6:54:08 PM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

R-35

75mm Schneider 1897 artillery

Link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/91lo6w

40mm Bofors

Link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/8ku8bq

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 192

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 3:08:57 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

R-35

Antiair Ballon
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dsodj4
Link for new unit

Nakajima Ki-43
https://www.sendspace.com/file/4wg6cw
Link for new unit

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 193

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 3:11:19 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
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R-35

Polikarpov Po-2
(Recon plane)

Link for units
https://www.sendspace.com/file/1gv5v8

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 194

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 3:18:23 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
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R-35

Soviet Tupolev SB-2

China Tupolev SB-2

Rep Spain Tupolev SB-2

Nat Spain Tupolev SB-2

Link for new units
https://www.sendspace.com/file/4h0qo3

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 195

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 3:19:50 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
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Nakajima Ki-43

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 196

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 5:30:46 AM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
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R-35

ZP obr. 38 76mm Anti-Aircraft Guns
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/76-mm-Flugabwehrkanone_M1931_%283-K%29
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/76-mm-Flugabwehrkanone_M1938

Link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/lpdy9x

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 197

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 11:50:37 AM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

Thank you!

About the new aircraft. I think there are some things that we should discuss:

1. I don`t understand why only one side of the plane is provided. As I remember, the philosophy behind H.Balck`s new graphics was to avoid mirroring the image and to create proper profiles for each unit. Aircraft of this era have their pitot tube on one wing and it looks odd when the pitot tube passes from the left wing to the right wing depending on the direction of the plane in game. Other details may also depend on what side is viewed so I think it`s important that both sides of the aircraft are rendered.

2. Would it not be better if the bigunits/info card will show the aircraft flying like in vanilla PzC? It would fit more the style that bebro also used and until all aircraft are redone it won`t be so apparent that there is more than one style in game. Besides, if you render the aircraft flying you don`t need to worry anymore about creating the landing gear (for planes with retractable landing gear). Plus, it`s a plane, it looks better on the air than on the ground. :D

3. Regretfully, I don`t think you can make aircraft to a single strict scale. The difference in size is so great between small fighters/light bombers and large transport/strateic bombers that the latter get to be too big for the purpose of this game. The strategic bombers can obscure the ground units even when they`re in zoom out mode. I think it`s better to keep a separate scale for strategic bombers and transport planes so that they don`t get too big. We could make some tests to see what looks better in game if you want to.

The weathering effect on the Ki-43 is great btw!

< Message edited by R35 -- 12/18/2015 12:52:34 PM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 198

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 6:08:52 PM

Karaganov

Posts: 382
Joined: 1/13/2015
From: Moscow - Hero City
Status: offline

I am glad that the H.Balck returned to work with planes !
These planes is very gladden the eye.
Thank you!
The famous plane Po-2 "Kukuruznik"

Ooooh
I see that the line of the new Romanian units almost ready!

< Message edited by Karaganov -- 12/18/2015 7:11:07 PM >

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 199

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 11:48:42 PM

Brazenman

Posts: 1001
Joined: 1/23/2015
Status: offline

R-35
Gribovsky G-11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gribovsky_G-11

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/b0mtil

Arkhangelsky Ar-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkhangelsky_Ar-2

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/3nccv0

Ilyushin Il-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/e9x63u

Yakovlev Yak-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-2

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ggc240

(in reply to Karaganov)

Post #: 200

RE: New Units for PC - 12/18/2015 11:51:59 PM

Brazenman

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H.Balck wrote
you can post also my plane scale overview for R-35
https://www.sendspace.com/file/2ibop5

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 201

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 12:28:50 AM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

First of all thanks for providing the renders for both sides!

Secondly, I still think the large bombers could be slightly smaller, but I`m willing to give it a try. Question is, won`t something like a B-29 cover too much of any ground unit with which it shares the hex?

Lastly, I hope this ain`t gonna start an argument, but if you really must have a template for the aircraft, could you please put more work into that? The new water template for the ships looks professional and the grass, desert and winter templates also look very nice, but the landing strip for the aircraft is not convincing. You can see it`s a semi-transparent sheet pasted on top of the grass because it goes beyond the edges of the round template. It needs some shadows and a more irregular demarcation between the strip and grass to convey the depth of the image. Alternatively, how about making the entire template to be just dirt or concrete? It would allow you the flexibility to enlarge or shrink it as you want without worrying about a strip.

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 202

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 6:17:27 AM

Brazenman

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Joined: 1/23/2015
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R-35

Sukhoi Su-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-2

Link for units
https://www.sendspace.com/file/zjggtd

H.Balck wrote
message to R35:
Has Bebro produced all !!! airplanes for the soviets ???

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 203

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 6:55:26 AM

Brazenman

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Joined: 1/23/2015
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H.Balck wrote

new soviet UC packet
https://www.sendspace.com/file/atpp4d
new german UC packet
https://www.sendspace.com/file/82jjra
I will rework all others with the same ground.
Do we need also winter camo for the planes ???

< Message edited by Brazenman -- 12/19/2015 8:15:06 AM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 204

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 11:08:59 AM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
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I think for the future units you could test the new ground to see how it looks a bit brighter, but overall, the new ground is way better than the previous one.

I`m looking at the German aircraft though and I`m not sure what the camo is based on. As far as I know the standard camouflage patterns on the upper wings of the German aircraft of this era would normally be a combination of disruptive geometrical shapes with straight lines:

Bf-109E
http://www.eduard.com/store/out/media/gallery/2555/zoom/r0007-f-2.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19063-resource-bf-109e-7-maintenance-markings-and-camo/
http://www.luijken.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/109.jpg
http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/bf109/bf109e_profile01.shtml

Bf-110c
http://www.aviation-history.com/messerschmitt/bf110.html
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/lps/images/lps_48001_p.jpg

Ju-87B
http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/galleries/ju87b24cz_1.htm

He-111H
http://www.hyperscale.com/2012/galleries/he111h148bg_1.htm
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/315/pics/2_11.jpg

Ju-88A
http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/fogel88a.htm
http://www.hyperscale.com/2008/galleries/ju88a1dw_1.htm

Do-17Z
http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/weber17.htm
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal12/11501-11600/gal11564-Do-17-Dedig/00.shtm

I`m not so concerned with getting the RLM paints exactly right, but I think the general camouflage pattern should reflect the standard.

< Message edited by R35 -- 12/19/2015 12:11:50 PM >

(in reply to Brazenman)

Post #: 205

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 12:11:22 PM

R35

Posts: 362
Joined: 8/10/2013
Status: offline

I`m thinking to post the files that I have assembled up to now. A number of things are not included yet:

1. the new aircraft - project still ongoing.
2. the new Polish units - the unit cards are assembled, but I was waiting for all units to be covered before implementing them in game.
3. the Italian ships - again, I was waiting to see if any changes would be done and if more are released.
4. the new factions/movement types and theatres only exist in the main strings.pzdat at the moment (other language versions will still display them in English for now probably).
5. in lack of proper graphics, the addition of mules/bicycles/motorcycles as specific movement types has not been implemented so far.

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 206

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 4:24:48 PM

Brazenman

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R-35

Henschel Hs 126
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_126

link for new unit
https://www.sendspace.com/file/4tes25

H.Balck wrote
R-35 question:
Can you upload all finished german and soviet planes for our 1941 scenario first in the next 2-3 days ?

(in reply to R35)

Post #: 207

RE: New Units for PC - 12/19/2015 4:35:59 PM

Brazenman

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Joined: 1/23/2015
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Legion Condor packet
Legion Condor Henschel Hs 126