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A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes

 
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A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/21/2015 10:25:22 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Todd and I have just entered 1944 in our Scenario 1 PBEM. I am the good guys (Japan) and Todd is the dark side. The Allies hold Wenchow in China which falls within the 15 hex range from Takao so kamikazes are activated. However, only a few air groups have active kamikaze conversion toggles in the air unit screen, one is a 36 plane A6M8 squadron in Tokyo, and another is an 8 plane Jill group in Nagasaki. Other A6M8 and Jill groups that I have looked at do not show an option to convert to kamikazes, nor do any of the Judy, Nell, or Betty groups. Since this is the first time I have ventured into 1944 as the good guys, I am wondering if there is something systematic used by the game engine to determine eligibility for the kamikaze conversion, or is it determined by who drew the short straw. Also, any advice on which types of air groups make for the best kamikazes, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Another issue regarding kamikaze activation is the manner in which the activation occurred in our game. The allies have held Wenchow since the start of the war. Up until this point, the allies have not captured any other bases within the required 15 hex range of Tokyo, Saigon, or Takao which would trigger kamikaze activation. Needless to say, Todd is none to happy about this while I think I am simply a clever Nipponese Admiral. However, I can see Todd's point since historically kamikazes were used as a desperation measure which the Allies holding Wenchow since the start of the war would probably not engender. Presuming this is WAD, would using Wenchow to gain access to kamikazes seem gamey to the forum?

By the way, I have invited to Todd (tocaff) to chime in if he wants to. Thanks in advance.

Regards, Paul



< Message edited by pws1225 -- 12/21/2015 11:28:15 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/21/2015 10:34:27 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Actually I'm not upset in the least. My Corsairs need something to do and they'll be on the CVs soon enough. In the meantime the USN continues to look to draw the IJN into a brawl, but Paul counters with traps that seem to backfire so far.

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(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 2
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/21/2015 10:35:21 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Sad, but true. :)

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Post #: 3
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/21/2015 11:17:51 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Ignoring the thread in the War Room...

It annoys me that the kamikaze test isn't on the capture/recapture of a (coastal) airfield within 20 hexes (15 is WITP distance, 20 is WITP:AE distance) of Takao/Saigon/Tokyo, but just the simple presence. One of my opponents never took Batan Island, which has an airfield, so kamikazes were available to him on 1/1/1944. I understand that the war could've just gone really poorly for Japan and maybe Wenchow, or Batan Island, or whatever, is actually a viable Allied base, so making it trigger off of the capture of an airfield would eliminate that possibility. It just strikes me as more likely that a base would be left in Allied hands intentionally simply to trigger kamikazes on 1/1/1944 regardless of the rest of the war, rather than the opposite where the Allied player has retained or captured a base within range prior to 1/1/1944 and then just sat still without getting others within range so as to prevent kamikaze activation. I'd actually rather kamikazes were just activated at a set date, but what can you do...

However, the Allied player does appear to get VPs for each kamikaze used, exactly as if they'd shot it down. I added it up on one of our turns and the VPs I got could only have come from kamikazes. So be aware - if your opponent throws hundreds of kamikazes at you, you're getting hundreds of VPs. Yeah, they're good weapons, but if you know he's using them somewhere and you throw some 1-point YMS's under their noses...

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Post #: 4
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/22/2015 2:08:04 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		You can only convert 1 air unit per day to kamikaze status.  See s.7.4.2.3 of the manual.

Alfred

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 5
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/22/2015 3:21:28 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		And there is a max exp limit on what units can be converted ... also in that same area of the manual.

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RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/22/2015 3:57:38 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Yep. Just 1 per day, but if it starts on January 1, 1944, and the perimeter is still effectively at New Guinea... that's a lot of kamikazes. And true on the max experience limit, but you can just swap out pilots and presumably wait until they're ready. That seems to be a rather low bar.

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RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/22/2015 10:54:37 AM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Thanks guys. I was aware of the one group per day limitation for conversion, but not the experience level limitation (didn't see anything in the manual). But sorting the land based air groups by experience level and checking to see the groups can convert seems to indicate that only groups with an experience level less than 50 can convert. Thanks Pax for this insight. And thanks to crsutton for the advice re bomb load and maneuverability. That makes sense.

Todd and I have agreed that letting Wenchow (or Bataan Island for that matter) trigger kamikazes is gamey. I will therefore not convert any groups until the Allies actually capture a base within the prescribed 20 hex radii. In exchange for this consideration, Todd has agreed to let me spend one blissful night on Maui with Eleanor Roosevelt.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/22/2015 11:49:10 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You can only convert 1 air unit per day to kamikaze status.  See s.7.4.2.3 of the manual.

Alfred


Actually it is max 7 conversions daily.

Conversions are accumulating. Every day You gaining one conversion. Max stored conversions is 7 If You use all available conversions in one day, next day You will have only one conversion available, if not use it next turn You will have 2 next day 3 etc. But it will never be more than 7

And unit must be full of green happy pilots.
If i remember correctly average XP below 50 morale above 90

Kamikaze pilots using LowNaval skill



< Message edited by koniu -- 12/22/2015 1:02:19 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 5:09:38 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Kamikaze pilots using LowNaval skill

Does Air or Def skills help them get through CAP?

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 10
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 6:27:20 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Kamikaze pilots using LowNaval skill

Does Air or Def skills help them get through CAP?


I would imagine that both would, but you can't get those skills very high without risking your pilots being trained too well to allow the unit to convert.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 11
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 8:54:39 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Kamikaze pilots using LowNaval skill

Does Air or Def skills help them get through CAP?


I would imagine that both would, but you can't get those skills very high without risking your pilots being trained too well to allow the unit to convert.


So, convert 'em first and then train 'em up a bit. No?


_____________________________

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 12
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 10:20:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

So, convert 'em first and then train 'em up a bit. No?


Seems to be working for ISIS ....

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Post #: 13
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 11:28:22 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu
Kamikaze pilots using LowNaval skill

Does Air or Def skills help them get through CAP?


I would imagine that both would, but you can't get those skills very high without risking your pilots being trained too well to allow the unit to convert.


So, convert 'em first and then train 'em up a bit. No?



Maybe. I guess. I haven't gotten to kamikazes yet in my own Japan game. The first thing I will try is converting a unit and then putting pilots into it, although I suspect I might be able to find a thread about that if I looked...

The other thing is I will try putting a mix of pilots into the unit - some with higher XPs, and some very fresh. If it is the average XP of the unit that is checked against...

After I re-read the conversion requirements, anyway.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 14
RE: A Couple of Questions Regarding Kamikazes - 12/23/2015 11:49:59 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I haven't gotten to kamikazes yet in my own Japan game.


Me neither.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 15
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