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Weather - 12/26/2015 6:16:55 PM

James Ward

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Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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In my current game I have had a number of turns where Mud has been present in June and July. Not the whole front at once but good portions of it in all theaters. This sort of screws up the German advance.
I don't think there was much mud in the summer in Russia. Is there a way to adjust the chance of mud happening early in the game?

Post #: 1

RE: Weather - 12/28/2015 9:17:37 PM

lancer

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Joined: 10/18/2005
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Hi James,

There shouldn't be any mud in June. It's hard coded to prevent this.

July is the highest rainfall month of the year for that part of the world. If you have a look at page 49 of the manual you'll see why.

These are summer rainfalls however that only ever last for a single turn.

The Germans advancing in '41 had similar problems.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 2

RE: Weather - 12/28/2015 10:55:32 PM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline

I've had mud on June.

Also regardless of weather it rains a lot in July from what I have read it was not an impediment to the advance like the fall rains. One or two days of rain in July didn't make the roads turn into swamps. Having 1/2 an army stuck in the mud 2 weeks after the invasion is a pretty big handicap. Perhaps it should be coded not to give mud in July and early August too.

(in reply to lancer)

Post #: 3

RE: Weather - 12/29/2015 6:44:37 AM

lancer

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Joined: 10/18/2005
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Hi James,

June should be free of rain apart from local precipitation in the weather reports which doesn't cause mud. If you've got mud conditions in June I'd appreciate a screenshot.

Rainfall in July '41 did in fact 'cause the Germans serious grief. But not across the whole front, just where it hit. The rainfall in the game is randomised within actual climatic parameters so what you get can vary from what happened in '41 (the weather isn't scripted). The extent of the summer rainfall on the map has been toned down for game play purposes.

Here's some entries direct from Halder's diaries.

3rd July '41
"Our advance is slowed by pouring rains, which turn roads into bogs"

4th July '41
"Road conditions difficult owing to recent rains. High tank casualties from bad roads"

9th July '41
"Seventeenth Army's advance is slow because the roads are rain soaked. Sixth Army slowed for the same reason."

12th July '41
"On several occasions Artillery was completely immobilised by rain for 24 hours"

20th July '41
"Wheeled motor vehicles, which cannot keep up on the rain soaked roads and so must be left behind in towns"

Don't forget your gumboots.

Cheers,
Cameron

< Message edited by lancer -- 12/29/2015 7:45:10 AM >

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 4

RE: Weather - 12/30/2015 8:07:53 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
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I tried to take a screen shot but it's just not working for me (screenshot challenged). 1.02v and it's 20th July turn for Axis. This is my 3rd straight turn of mud everywhere- AGN AGC AGS are all mostly immobile with it. The mud stretches from Riga to Minsk to Brest to Kiev to just south of Proskurow. Is this just unlucky? Seems like a lot of mud for almost half of July is a bit much. My first time through the game, and I was already struggling with the Germans, but this is a killer...might as well start over I guess.

_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to lancer)

Post #: 5

RE: Weather - 12/31/2015 12:22:18 AM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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I'm on July 4 and basically have mud covering the entire front. Thankfully I'm the Russians. I'd restart if I was the Germans.

I'm not sure how to post a screenshot but this seems to be a little much, an isolated hex of mud here or there MAY make sense from a historical point of view this early in the campaign but this looks like it's the fall monsoon season! I know you can find references to mud effecting movement in July but it had very little bearing on the early campaign. There should be virtually no chance of mud occurring before the end of August. The logistics already a built in break on the German advance with the logistical system. 2-3 turns of your mech units sitting in place and only advancing a hex or two with your infantry without a chance to attack is just to big of a handicap

(in reply to baloo7777)

Post #: 6

RE: Weather - 12/31/2015 2:18:17 AM

baloo7777

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From: eastern CT
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I totally agree with you James Ward. My next turn (July 24th} was clear everywhere, followed by the July 28th turn where mud was everywhere in the North and Center, but the South was clear.That makes more than half of July with mud. My Panzer-grenadier and motorised infantry were useless.

_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 7

RE: Weather - 12/31/2015 2:24:38 PM

dermax

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Joined: 6/15/2010
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It seems a bit of the issue might stem from how long turns represent. Unless I'm mistaken a turn is four days. Having mud hold up an advance for that long would seem to be a bit much during the summer months. Brief, heavy, and violent cloudbursts were (and are) a fact of "steppe" life. So too, however, is wind and heat. Several German generals - including Halder - talked about the summer mud holding up advances, however, these hold ups tended to be brief - particularly in comparison to the "mud season".

It's not a one to one correlation, of course, but living in the "American Steppe" I've seen violent thunderstorms completely flood out areas in the space of an hour. In the storm's wake, however, comes the heat and wind that will completely dry it out within a few hours or so more.

I completely "get" the reasoning for mud during the summer rains. It's a historical fact. I would contend, however, that there's a difference between the mud of a few hour thunderstorm as a front moves through and the mud of the Rasputitsa - particularly over the course of four days.

I don't know the feasibility, but my suggestion would be to add a "summer mud" terrain type which could run up through, say, August. "Summer mud" would have the penalties of "mud", but halved, quartered, or something - obviously testing would work that out. This "summer mud" would thus represent the day or two a unit was slowed down by a cloudburst and resulting quagmire, while also simulating the day or two that was "normal" conditions as the heat and wind dried it out.

(in reply to baloo7777)

Post #: 8

RE: Weather - 1/2/2016 6:01:43 AM

lancer

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Joined: 10/18/2005
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Hi,

The weather system isn't scripted, it's based on actual climatic parameters.

The upside of this is that you can't accurately predict what the weather is going to do in any given play through.

The downside is that, because of the spectrum of possibilities, there are going to be times when the weather you get at any point on the time scale is going to be worse than what happened in '41.

There are also going to be times when it is a lot more benevolent than in '41.

My approach has been that, as Operational Commander, you've got about the same idea of the expected weather as they did back then. It isn't always going to do what you want and you're forced to adapt.

It's also a fact a life that in that part of the world it can rain buckets in July.

But, hey, it's the New Year and in my capacity as Weather God I'll take a look at tightening the tap.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to dermax)

Post #: 9

RE: Weather - 1/2/2016 3:23:21 PM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
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I'm in early October now in my new game. The only mud I saw was in early July!

(in reply to lancer)

Post #: 10

RE: Weather - 1/16/2016 2:26:10 PM

eirikg

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Joined: 1/18/2006
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It seems there are no negative movement effects from snow. I'm curious how you figure that? In reality snow effects movement a great deal, how much depends on the amount of it. Units moving off roads will be severly handicapped if not using skis or other snow equipment, and a lot of resources have to be used to clear the roads, and the traffic will be a lot slower because of it.

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 11

RE: Weather - 1/17/2016 7:21:50 AM

lancer

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Joined: 10/18/2005
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Hi eirkg,

Snow itself isn't a factor as it can be feather light or deep drifts.

The weather effects of winter are keyed into the low temperatures, frostbite levels and wind chill. The relevant snow dynamic is assumed to be in proportion to these.

Winter weather effects can be severe for units without any winter clothing or equipment.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to eirikg)

Post #: 12