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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> ASW Woes.

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ASW Woes. - 1/3/2016 10:00:15 AM

Willaverill

Posts: 29
Joined: 12/22/2015
Status: offline

1st after 10 posts get locked out for a week. Grrr.

Toward the end of Dec 1941, Playing Allies in the GC against AI.

I can not get the damn Japanese Subs off my door step. Almost every air asset I have next to a coast is on either ASW or Naval Search. I.e. If I have 2 LBs at a port I will have 1 of each, then it is 2 to 1 ASW to Nav.

My ASW ships are all missing or getting hit and/or sunk while on ASW patrols. (there are 3!!! IJN subs in the Channel Islands and 5 ASW TF of mine. I have lost 2 DD and an ACM to these. I can't do squat and the IJN are sinking my shipping consistently. I cant leave my ships all bottled up in my harbors for ever.
There is 1 pesky IJN Sub at the opening to Victoria sound doing the same thing, and another off Flinders Island in OZ, and a couple around Noumea-Pago Pago.

I sank 1 submarine as my first kill of the game, on turn 1, and that has been it.

I am to the point where I am afraid to send troop transports out.

I am scratching my head. Do I use a heard approach and send like 6 freighters at once? Do I make larger ASW TF? Currently I send them in pairs.

I have tried everything I can think of. except trying to figure out where they are calling home.

Cry me a river, right.

Post #: 1

RE: ASW Woes. - 1/3/2016 10:15:44 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Willaverill

1st after 10 posts get locked out for a week. Grrr.

Toward the end of Dec 1941, Playing Allies in the GC against AI.

I can not get the damn Japanese Subs off my door step. Almost every air asset I have next to a coast is on either ASW or Naval Search. I.e. If I have 2 LBs at a port I will have 1 of each, then it is 2 to 1 ASW to Nav.

My ASW ships are all missing or getting hit and/or sunk while on ASW patrols. (there are 3!!! IJN subs in the Channel Islands and 5 ASW TF of mine. I have lost 2 DD and an ACM to these. I can't do squat and the IJN are sinking my shipping consistently. I cant leave my ships all bottled up in my harbors for ever.
There is 1 pesky IJN Sub at the opening to Victoria sound doing the same thing, and another off Flinders Island in OZ, and a couple around Noumea-Pago Pago.

I sank 1 submarine as my first kill of the game, on turn 1, and that has been it.

I am to the point where I am afraid to send troop transports out.

I am scratching my head. Do I use a heard approach and send like 6 freighters at once? Do I make larger ASW TF? Currently I send them in pairs.

I have tried everything I can think of. except trying to figure out where they are calling home.

Cry me a river, right.

That sums it up pretty well.

Allied ASW is abysmal at the start of the game and you will have to play accordingly. Never send anything unescorted out unless you 100% certain there are no Japanese subs in the area. Try to send every convoy with at least 1 escort of any kind PBs/PCs/AMs or even DDs if its critical.

In my experience don�t bother with flying ASW until you have pilots trained in the role. Better to have them on NavS to try and spot the subs. This will increase their DL (Detection Level) and make it harder for them to attack.

But really your best defense early on is to avoid areas that have lots of Japanese subs.

(in reply to Willaverill)

Post #: 2

RE: ASW Woes. - 1/3/2016 10:23:55 AM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

Basically, you need to have both air and night air search, better ASW ships and better ASW commanders.

This takes time.

Train your pilots to 70 skill in ASW (your sub killers). You have plenty of useless planes that make Ok ASW platforms (Wirraways spring to mind) to protect the lanes outside your major ports.

Train pilots to 70 Nav search in the more long ranged aircraft that are essentially useless (Hudsons/Bolos that kind of thing) and have 2 units at the major port, 1 on day search, 1 on night search. I wouldn't put them at maximun range as you want to minimise op losses.

Essentially your aim is drive off the subs so your convoys can move, and a sub with a 10/10 detection is in danger of being successfully attacked by your ASW assets. Once a sub is seen, you can avoid it and attack it.

If you can keep the subs out of coastal hexes (which is relatively easy, as a spotted sub will be attacked and hit very often in shallow water), then you will be able to route your convoys safely.

I think the optimum size for an ASW Grp in three ships (someone could confirm this!) btw.

It takes time, but by Mar/Apr it should be very difficult for the IJN Subs to operate that close to your major ports.

_____________________________

(in reply to Willaverill)

Post #: 3

RE: ASW Woes. - 1/3/2016 10:34:56 AM

RichardAckermann

Posts: 271
Joined: 12/4/2015
Status: offline

You fight the AI, right? What AI level do you play on?
I noticed that when playing on "very hard", my elite zeros get slaughtered even by average buffalo pilots. If you are on a hard level, this might cause your ASW ships to fail.

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 4

RE: ASW Woes. - 1/3/2016 2:19:36 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Basically, you need to have both air and night air search, better ASW ships and better ASW commanders.

This takes time.

Train your pilots to 70 skill in ASW (your sub killers). You have plenty of useless planes that make Ok ASW platforms (Wirraways spring to mind) to protect the lanes outside your major ports.

Train pilots to 70 Nav search in the more long ranged aircraft that are essentially useless (Hudsons/Bolos that kind of thing) and have 2 units at the major port, 1 on day search, 1 on night search. I wouldn't put them at maximun range as you want to minimise op losses.

Essentially your aim is drive off the subs so your convoys can move, and a sub with a 10/10 detection is in danger of being successfully attacked by your ASW assets. Once a sub is seen, you can avoid it and attack it.

If you can keep the subs out of coastal hexes (which is relatively easy, as a spotted sub will be attacked and hit very often in shallow water), then you will be able to route your convoys safely.

I think the optimum size for an ASW Grp in three ships (someone could confirm this!) btw.

It takes time, but by Mar/Apr it should be very difficult for the IJN Subs to operate that close to your major ports.

+1 on the use of 3-ship ASW TFs. I use them extensively and they seem to attack more often than any other size. My experience in the Marianas scenario is:

- a one-ship ASW TF is as likely to be torpedoed as it is to attack, and torpedoes are more likely to sink you than depth charges are to sink the enemy sub
- two-ship ASW TFs work well, but after one ship attacks you need to RTB both ships replenish d/c's or split the TF leaving a one-ship TF behind and at-risk
- three ship ASW TFs work well and after one uses d/c's it can be detached to RTB for replenishment and return
- four ship ASW TFs seem to detect subs OK but for some reason are less likely to line up an attack before losing contact. It is as if the ships are getting in each other's way.

One other point - the individual ship Captains must have high Naval Skill (in the 70s) to make effective attacks and high Aggression (60s +) to be persistent in seeking out the sub after initial loss of contact. The TF Commander needs very good leadership to coordinate the ships in their operations.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 5

RE: ASW Woes. - 1/8/2016 8:43:43 PM

kbfchicago

Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline

- a one-ship ASW TF is as likely to be torpedoed as it is to attack, and torpedoes are more likely to sink you than depth charges are to sink the enemy sub
- two-ship ASW TFs work well, but after one ship attacks you need to RTB both ships replenish d/c's or split the TF leaving a one-ship TF behind and at-risk
- three ship ASW TFs work well and after one uses d/c's it can be detached to RTB for replenishment and return
- four ship ASW TFs seem to detect subs OK but for some reason are less likely to line up an attack before losing contact. It is as if the ships are getting in each other's way.

2nd this from BBfanboy. Exactly my experience as well... 2 when you must (early on), 3 when you can, 4 is a waste. Either as JFB or AFB. Same can be said for # of escorts in your convoy.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 6