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RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2

 
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RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 12/9/2015 10:44:03 AM   
Alyfox

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/9/2015
Status: offline 		New player, possible I'm missing something... I went to install this (copied into my Customize directory, clicked on it in Themes) and it gave me an error saying it couldnt load more than 170 modules.. I hit ignore (cause possibly dumb) and after about 10 minutes of 'loading' I just ended up closing the game.. pretty much stuck/frozen.. what am I doing wrong?

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 91
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 12/10/2015 6:55:22 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		Hi, Alyfox, I'm afraid I haven't seen that error before, and I've no idea what's causing it. Perhaps someone else would comment, if they have any ideas. Alternatively, you could try posting this in the DW Tech support forum, but be sure to mention you get the error when trying to use my mod.

Osito

(in reply to Alyfox)
Post #: 92
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/3/2016 5:14:31 PM   
NZFade

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2015
Status: offline 		Hey Osito,
Just a quick thanks very much for the mod, I am really enjoying it.

Not sure if this has already been raised with you, but in the HighTech Research Tree the links between "Basic Storage and Payloads" -> "Enhanced Storage Systems" -> "Optimized Basic Storage" are in correct, you can research "Optimized Basic Storage" without "Enhanced Storage Systems".

Also not sure if anyone else has posted them but here are the three research trees for the mod if anyone wants them in one pic.

Energy Research Tree

Regards.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by NZFade -- 1/3/2016 6:20:04 PM >

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 93
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/3/2016 5:16:59 PM   
NZFade

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2015
Status: offline 		Weapons Research Tree

Attachment (1)

(in reply to NZFade)
Post #: 94
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/3/2016 5:21:20 PM   
NZFade

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2015
Status: offline 		HighTech Research Tree

Attachment (1)

(in reply to NZFade)
Post #: 95
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/4/2016 11:34:53 AM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for the bug report, I'll take a look at it, and post an update, if appropriate. Interestingly, I found that deleting local content in Steam removes every folder in the DWU folder, so all my work on this mod has been deleted. I will have to download from the link, and hope I can work it out from there (yeah, I know, 'backup!').

Thanks for the pics. Out of interest, how do you do those? Do you have a screen big enough to show the whole tech tree, or is there another way of capturing it?

Osito

(in reply to NZFade)
Post #: 96
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/4/2016 3:44:44 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

Thanks for the bug report, I'll take a look at it, and post an update, if appropriate. Interestingly, I found that deleting local content in Steam removes every folder in the DWU folder, so all my work on this mod has been deleted. I will have to download from the link, and hope I can work it out from there (yeah, I know, 'backup!').

Thanks for the pics. Out of interest, how do you do those? Do you have a screen big enough to show the whole tech tree, or is there another way of capturing it?

Osito


Actually, I'd say 'Don't use Steam'.

I just started working on my own research mod, so I guess I'll find out just how painful it is. I think everyone has a different idea on how it should work.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 1/4/2016 4:46:23 PM >

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'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 97
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 1/5/2016 9:01:13 PM   
NZFade

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2015
Status: offline 		Nope, not a massive screen, I just took screen shots of it all then pasted them together. However when I looked at printing options I think I might have to go back to the drawing board if I want to print them.... Might have to adjust the size a little and break them up into A3 printable pictures so that people can easily print them and stick them together if they wanted to. I will let you know how I get on.

Also, I have finished traveling so will have access to a computer again so I fish out the changes I made to fix it and post them for you if you like.

Regards.

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 98
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/5/2016 1:42:39 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		I've posted a version 2.1 update today which addresses the following:

1. Corrected the error in the storage system tech line noted by NZFade.

2. Included new resource icons supplied by Blackwolf.

3. Tried to address the problem with life support and hab modules noted by CyclopsSlayer. In particular:
(i) The upgrades now have clearer benefits.
(ii) The size of hab modules does not go so high, so that the boarding defence bonus remains reasonable.
(iii) This does mean fewer hab modules are needed than life support.

I haven't yet dealt with the 'pirate' issue raised by ChildServices at this time. I don't think the way I've dealt with pirates is ideal, but I still haven't come up with an alternative that I feel completely happy with. Possibly the limitations in the game make a compromise inevitable. If anyone has any comments on this particular issue, or has any alternative proposals for dealing with it, please let me know.

Also, if you notice any new bugs introduced by version 2.1, let me know.

Osito

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 99
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/8/2016 2:12:09 PM   
moonraker65


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		Can this be used with other mods ? Just wondering as I'd like to try it in Beyond Extended. Which files would I need to transfer please ? as I've never mixed mods before

< Message edited by moonraker -- 2/8/2016 3:50:28 PM >

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(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 100
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/8/2016 5:33:46 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: moonraker

Can this be used with other mods ? Just wondering as I'd like to try it in Beyond Extended. Which files would I need to transfer please ? as I've never mixed mods before


Unfortunately, DW is not very friendly when it comes to mixing mods, and, unless the mods affect completely different areas of the game, they usually cannot be easily combined. To make my mod work with Beyond Extended, you'd need not only to pick the right files to combine, but many of the individual files would need to have their contents changed.

So the short answer is that this mod won't work with Beyond Extended, and in general cannot be expected to work with other mods. As you have no doubt seen from the front page, it does incorporate three other mods.

Osito

< Message edited by Osito -- 2/8/2016 6:35:37 PM >

(in reply to moonraker65)
Post #: 101
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/8/2016 6:09:05 PM   
moonraker65


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		Ok Osito thanks. I have downloaded so I'll give it a try

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(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 102
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/10/2016 6:36:12 PM   
moonraker65


Posts: 556
Joined: 7/14/2004
From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		Well I have to say that this is very good indeed. Even with few pirates the ones that are there make a nuisance of themselves

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(in reply to moonraker65)
Post #: 103
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/17/2016 5:46:19 AM   
Unforeseen


Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline 		Lol why didnt i try this before..this looks really solid. Quick question...this doesnt work with the galaxy map? I saw something about it not liking mods.

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(in reply to moonraker65)
Post #: 104
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/17/2016 10:29:04 AM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		Unfortunately nothing works with the 'Galaxy Map' :-(

I tried to get them to work together, but couldn't do it.

Osito

(in reply to Unforeseen)
Post #: 105
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/17/2016 7:59:53 PM   
Unforeseen


Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline 		Ah :( oh well.

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(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 106
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/20/2016 4:43:16 PM   
Hattori Hanzo


Posts: 734
Joined: 3/21/2011
From: Okinawa
Status: offline 		is this mod compatible with Distant Worlds: Universe ?

(in reply to Unforeseen)
Post #: 107
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/20/2016 5:28:42 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 948
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

is this mod compatible with Distant Worlds: Universe ?


Yes.

(in reply to Hattori Hanzo)
Post #: 108
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/27/2016 12:16:06 AM   
Shogouki


Posts: 177
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Hey Osito, I realize you're probably very busy but I thought I'd ask just in case, you wouldn't have any desire in making a Research Unleashed-lite version that doesn't include the super weapons and extremely powerful stuff but just to add balance and variety?

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 109
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/27/2016 2:08:40 AM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shogouki

Hey Osito, I realize you're probably very busy but I thought I'd ask just in case, you wouldn't have any desire in making a Research Unleashed-lite version that doesn't include the super weapons and extremely powerful stuff but just to add balance and variety?


That's an interesting thought. I originally came at this mod from the perspective of trying to increase the power of the techs, but I ended up trying to straighten out some of the quirks in the structure of the tree, and I can see that there is some merit in just doing the latter.

However, the problem with actually doing this is two-fold:
1. It is a royal pita to make any significant changes to the tech tree.
2. DW2 is (I hope) on the way, which has somewhat reduced my interest in making any significant changes to my own mod for DW1.

So I do not think I have enough desire to make any significant changes at this point, but I appreciate the suggestion.

Osito

(in reply to Shogouki)
Post #: 110
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/27/2016 3:08:39 AM   
Shogouki


Posts: 177
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, just thought I'd check.

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 111
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/27/2016 9:55:44 AM   
Remigius

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/9/2011
Status: offline 		Hey Osito, could you tell me what the basic differences are between your tech tree and the one in the starfall mod? Apart from your endgame supertechs that is.

(in reply to Shogouki)
Post #: 112
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 2/27/2016 1:30:42 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, I can't, because I never played the Starfall mod. I'm not even certain whether or not Starfall has end game supertechs. I get the impression that Starfall is a somewhat bigger mod with many more techs, so if you're looking for even more techs it might be a plus. On the other hand, I find hard enough to get through all the techs in my own mod. On the other hand, I think that most people prefer Starfall, probably because it is more extensive.

To be honest, it's probably best if you download both mods then take a look at the tech trees for yourself, and see which appeals more.

Osito

< Message edited by Osito -- 2/27/2016 1:31:13 PM >

(in reply to Remigius)
Post #: 113
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/4/2016 9:37:15 PM   
Landris

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/4/2016
Status: offline 		First, let me say that this is a fantastic mod Osito, it fits the way I play very closely. I especially like the excluded techs by race. There were a few things that bothered me about it though so I decided to fix them. I thought people might be interested, so I’ll share!

1. Deneba crystal is a strategic resource in this mod, but its description and icon still showed it as a super luxury so I fixed those. The icon was a quick fix, someone could easily do a better job.

2. Hyper jump initiation times go up to 50s in the mod, but in practice there seems to be a 15s upper limit hard-coded, no matter what the settings are for the component. So I adjusted all the times to keep the balance between drives, but with 15s as the longest.

3. To make prewarp more interesting I adjusted the costs of early hyperdrive techs (and lowered the speed of the first from 1250 to 1000) so that the first one is cheap, but the next few are pricey, allowing easy access to your own system and maybe very nearby systems. This works really well for games that I like to play that are sparse (250 stars, 15x15), I’m not sure if it would work for a very dense galaxy. I also hope (speculatively) that this might help the AI for prewarp to get a strong home system setup.

4. As a physicist, it really bothered me that the highest-end fusion drive used helium as a fuel source instead of hydrogen, helium fusion produces less energy than hydrogen fusion! So I changed it to hydrogen. Also, from a gameplay perspective, it is nicer to have fewer fuels to worry about for resupply ships as they always take onboard all fuels available when deployed at a source.

5. The mining techs went above the caps for resource extraction, which are 10/40, so I adjusted those techs.

6. Reactive armour was a side tech in the armour line, while gravity armour as the ultimate armour had a much lower reactive rating and I suspect would be less effective at that stage of the game, so I adjusted the armour line slightly.

7. By far the most time consuming adjustment! It bothered me in the ship designer that “Show only latest” wasn’t working for this mod. I realized that it had to do with the way techs were excluded from races; using the “Allowed Races” flag in the research file makes the game treat it as a special racial tech, and the designer always shows racial techs alongside mainline techs. I changed the way this was done for components, removing the “Allowed Races” line from any component-related techs, and adding “DisallowedComponentIds” to all the race files where appropriate. This also had the added benefit of making the race selection screen much much easier to parse.

I have (I think) included a zip file containing only those files that I changed, you should overwrite the files from Research Unleashed that are already there.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 114
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/5/2016 11:25:52 AM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline 		Hi Landris,

Thanks for the feedback. Many of your changes seem quite sensible, and I'd be interested in other opinions. If you don't mind I may incorporate at least some of these in the main mod (obviously I will credit you). Or i may just link your post in my original post,

My comments on your specific points are:

1. Ok, hadn't noticed that - good point.

2. Hadn't noticed that either, but, if true, it certainly makes sense to have some adjustments, given that long initiation times are no longer really a factor.

3. Interesting idea. Probably the generated galaxies don't get so dense that this change would be an issue.

4. Yes, I agree with you to an extent, but I really wanted a third resource, so I 'imagined' that scientists in the future had invented a different type of helium fusion. Initially I tried to do this with uranium as the initial fuel, but it just didn't work, because uranium is a solid, and I couldn't generate sufficient quantities from mining.

5. Hmm, that was an error on my part.

6. I was actually trying to make the end game armours a bit of a trade off between reactive armour and armour strength, but perhaps I haven't got the balance right.

7. That sounds like a very good idea.

Osito


(in reply to Landris)
Post #: 115
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/6/2016 4:22:01 AM   
Unforeseen


Posts: 608
Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
Status: offline 		Having a couple of weird issues with this.

1. The majority of the AI empires are either not expanding or expanding very slowly. At first I thought it was because I was just researching Colonization faster than they were. So I set that to Tech 0 and ran another game for 91 years, same result. Most of the empires started with nearby habitable worlds for their race. They just didn't build ships to go colonize them. Can't figure it out, but it started after I switched from Starfall.

2. Independent Colonies have ships but they aren't moving. At all. Makes me wonder if there is actually a problem with my install.

3. In pre-warp default freighter designs are over the size cap, preventing anyone from constructing them until research causes a retrofit.

Really great looking mod though, I just hope I can get these things figured out so I can actually play it! XD

(I really think there is just something wrong with my installation. I just wanted to post about it in case anyone else ran into something like this.)

< Message edited by Unforeseen -- 3/6/2016 6:47:49 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 116
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/6/2016 5:54:49 AM   
Landris

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 3/4/2016
Status: offline 		Thanks for the response!

I understand the desire to have a third fuel source, some mods have seven or more! This was more of a personal preference for me. It was only a small thing until my resupply ship started taking helium onboard too, I already went out of my way to avoid setting up my resupply ships on gas giants that had both caslon and hydrogen.

As for the armour, I did think that you had probably intended for a choice there. That makes sense and is probably a better gameplay mechanic.

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 117
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/7/2016 12:23:49 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Having a couple of weird issues with this.

1. The majority of the AI empires are either not expanding or expanding very slowly. At first I thought it was because I was just researching Colonization faster than they were. So I set that to Tech 0 and ran another game for 91 years, same result. Most of the empires started with nearby habitable worlds for their race. They just didn't build ships to go colonize them. Can't figure it out, but it started after I switched from Starfall.

2. Independent Colonies have ships but they aren't moving. At all. Makes me wonder if there is actually a problem with my install.

3. In pre-warp default freighter designs are over the size cap, preventing anyone from constructing them until research causes a retrofit.

Really great looking mod though, I just hope I can get these things figured out so I can actually play it! XD

(I really think there is just something wrong with my installation. I just wanted to post about it in case anyone else ran into something like this.)


It's hard to remember exactly why the freighters can't be built at the start of a pre-warp game, but I think it may have something to do with preventing the AI from building them right at the start of the game, when they're unlikely to be needed, and will probably just clog up build queues and use important resources. For myself, I always micromanage, so if I needed a freighter before I have the next build size tech, I'd just design one. So I think the game may well play better this way.

The problem you're experiencing with empires not growing could be down to pirates. I just ran a test game on 'automatic' with pirates set to normal strength, low amounts and distant from my own empire, but still pirates came to my planet every year and wiped out everything I owned. At 11 years into the game, my empire was sitting there with a bare planet and nothing else. So one explanation is that the pirates were inhibiting game growth.

However, I'd be surprised if that affected all empires. Certainly in my own test there were plenty of other empires with multiple planets after 20 years.

Osito


(in reply to Unforeseen)
Post #: 118
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/7/2016 2:51:32 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 948
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

It's hard to remember exactly why the freighters can't be built at the start of a pre-warp game


It's the ship design templates. All the freighters are the same. I would suggest reducing components to the small freighter so it can be built right away. Right now they're 10 cargo, 15 engine, 6 fuel. Change the small freighter to 6-10-6. That should fix it. I posted an update to Unleashed Extended. You could pull out the ship designs from that if you want to change anything.

quote:

but I think it may have something to do with preventing the AI from building them right at the start of the game, when they're unlikely to be needed


The AI builds heavily pre-warp. They need freighters.

(in reply to Osito)
Post #: 119
RE: Research Unleashed - Version 2 - 3/7/2016 4:01:47 PM   
Osito


Posts: 875
Joined: 5/9/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970

quote:

It's hard to remember exactly why the freighters can't be built at the start of a pre-warp game


It's the ship design templates. All the freighters are the same. I would suggest reducing components to the small freighter so it can be built right away. Right now they're 10 cargo, 15 engine, 6 fuel. Change the small freighter to 6-10-6. That should fix it. I posted an update to Unleashed Extended. You could pull out the ship designs from that if you want to change anything.

quote:

but I think it may have something to do with preventing the AI from building them right at the start of the game, when they're unlikely to be needed


The AI builds heavily pre-warp. They need freighters.



Yes, I know about the ship templates. What I'm saying is that this particular feature may have been deliberate, rather than an oversight - I don't remember. It could have come from Icemania's AI improvement mod, or it could have been something I did myself. Having said all that, I'm personally comfortable that the AI doesn't build freighters until it gets the next build size tech.

This leads me on to your second point. The AI does need freighters, but with a pre-warp start, left to its own devices, the AI will often build freighters before it really needs them.

Osito

< Message edited by Osito -- 3/7/2016 4:03:08 PM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 120
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