Kreigsmarine Setup

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Kreigsmarine Setup

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> The War Room >> Kreigsmarine Setup

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/9/2016 6:43:35 PM

Lord Drakken

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

I am curious for input and for the sake of stimulating discussion in the forums. Subject: Kreigsmarine Setup.

Do people hide the important German surface ships in Konigsberg and Memel outside of air range? Do you put them in Kiel to keep the threat alive and risk a port attack in the surprise impulse? Where do you put the transport and amphib? How about the ineffective WW I battleships?

Do you move the ships after the surprise impulse is over?

Do you change the setup depending on your army's plans?

Do you put your convoys out at setup or try to take a combined at some time during the first turn?

Where do you base your fighter cover?

What do you think is the best way to lay out the German naval units at the start of the war?

Post #: 1

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/9/2016 9:06:08 PM

rkr1958

Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline

I base the KM as far east and out of harm's way (i.e., French & CW surprise impulse) as possible. Even with this setup, the CW managed to surprise post strike Stettin and damage one of the two pocket battleships based there. They had a chance to sink it.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Ronnie

(in reply to Lord Drakken)

Post #: 2

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/9/2016 9:44:33 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

I play the Germans a bit conservatively, so the AMPH, TRS, and 2 BB are in East Prussia / Memel, the rest in Kiel. The WW1 BB take the hits as much as possible, if any. No FTR cover at-start, but perhaps the AA gun adjacent if there are no operations on the Western Front, my usual preference. Probably FTR cover during "Phony War" but not after.

Probably 2 BB + 4 CP in one port for a move out on a Combined impulse to duck any Allied raiders, yes.

Port Strike is not a super effective use of an air mission without some good luck on the search dice usually, though of course the surprise impulse is best. I find better things to do with the Harrow and the Hampden for the CW on the first turn, but will send in the Swordfish from Home Fleet CVs if nothing else is going on along the shoreline. Really at any time until the Med heats up, but the CW needs the CV(s) there to escort the BEF, so...

If the Germans are just screening Poland on the slow motion attack, I might have the Polish bomber have a go at the AMPH one time. It can't get a surprise strike in but has the odd chance of success.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 3

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/10/2016 2:39:40 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

Play it conservative. A more interesting question is what do the French/CW? send into the Baltic?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 4

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/10/2016 1:41:26 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

I always disagree with myself about the setup of the Kriegsmarine at start. On the one hand, to be save from a port attack at Kiel seems to be important, but on the other hand: if the Kriegsmarine sets up in Kiel, it can move out to sea in a combined impulse with an loaded division and invade Rotterdam to kill the Dutch...

However: if I choose Kiel to be the starting point of the Kriegsmarine, I will put a FTR in reach of the port for defense. No British port attack from CV's on Kiel...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)

Post #: 5

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/10/2016 2:47:30 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

The Luftwaffe has a lot to do on the first turn if Germany attempts to cross the Dyle that turn. France has 2 planes to fight, the CW potentially 5, and Poland 2. The Allies might use up a few of those on the surprise impulse, making them irrelevant to FTR defense questions. 2 of the Me-109 have 2 ground support factors = 4 on a surprise impulse, worth almost the same as one weak INF corps or a whole odds level against a 4 strength defender, and that can be useful to lower the odds of your attacking ground forces becoming dis-organized in spots. Attacking Belgium _and_ Poland is a fair bit to attempt even for the power of the German Army at start.

If going into Belgium I think the Kriegsmarine should be all-in on that idea and forgo FTR coverage.

Also one standard on the idea of invading Rotterdam is to send out the Hipper or Blucher CA on it's own and hope for the best. I think Kriegsmarine commanders should again be all-in and send out some escorts, probably the 2 BBs and another CA (or maybe bring the pocket battleships along too though that raises the target profile), so the CW needs 3 surprise points for the Home Fleet to find the destroyers loaded up with infantry battalions on their decks. OR attempt to get enough Swordfish through the AA fire to get a result on those same destroyer transports (represented by the CA counter, recall). All-in is all in. A single CA will most likely be thwarted on every successful CW search. But a transporting CA in a task force will get through a scrape with the Royal Navy some of the time. That approach will be bloody for the Kriegsmarine though, no doubt. It's a war after all.

< Message edited by brian brian -- 1/10/2016 3:53:20 PM >

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 6

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/10/2016 4:48:15 PM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

I do not like limiting my options (do not risk the Kreigsmarine in a sortie into the North Sea early). I keep the Kreigsmarine as far east as possible, while still giving myself two separate possibilities to invade Rotterdam (Blucher, then Hipper if need be...both can get to the North Sea 4 box from the Baltic and are expendable in this good cause). Since I am a true believer in Fall Gelb, I keep all my fighters and AA on the western front. I also like to take Gibraltar and prefer the Kreigsmarine be intact for operations after that.

_____________________________

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 7

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/11/2016 1:42:22 PM

Lord Drakken

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

I am confused about the invasion into Rotterdam? It seems like a huge risk with the Royal Navy out there. Are people doing this so they can declare war on Belgium in the second impulse along with the Netherlands? Or is it to prevent the Brits from landing their troops in that spot.

I usually declare war on Netherlands one impulse followed by Belgium the next.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)

Post #: 8

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/11/2016 3:04:34 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

Yes, it's Netherlands on one impulse, Belgium on the next. The only way to prevent the BEF from landing in Rotterdam (in 1939 anyway) is to invade the hex.

The best odds the first CA is found by an intelligently commanded Royal Navy on the surprise impulse are about 70% I believe, as the CA might inadvertently activate a Royal Navy smart enough to sail into the 4 box and only the 4 box.

Odds a little bit lower for the second CA, if the Royal Navy misses the search but the CA doesn't; then the CA might have enough surprise points to avoid combat - not possible on the surprise impulse.

If I play this game correctly, that is.

(in reply to Lord Drakken)

Post #: 9

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/11/2016 10:18:29 PM

Lord Drakken

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline

Thanks Brian. I have not had the allies drop into Rotterdam before, but I plan on doing it this time. With the river around it, Rotterdam would be almost impossible to conquer from 2 sides.

I wonder how well the Germans can bypass these units and ooze their way into Belgium.

The Brits will have used up their transport capacity for the turn and their units would not be under fighter cover from England. Interesting...

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 10

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/11/2016 11:21:20 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

I will just say that it is possible to defeat France while leaving the Netherlands neutral. Slower a bit, but not impossible.

(in reply to Lord Drakken)

Post #: 11

RE: Kreigsmarine Setup - 1/12/2016 8:21:52 PM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

If you can take out France quickly without Netherlands, that's great! That way you can wait for Japan to DOW Netherlands as well later on.

I guess it all depends on how the French are set up. A traditional French set up with experienced CW/French players will make that difficult. You will have to fight a tough battle across the Dyle...probably using up one of your O-chits doing so. I automatically assume my opponent will make the right decisions and prefer to save my O-chits.

_____________________________

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 12