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Questions and doubts about production - 1/28/2016 8:14:45 AM

No idea

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
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I have some thoughts regarding production (mainly from the soviet perspective) and I will like to know what you think:

1. It seems to me that Armaments are even more important than HI when prioritizing for evacuation. Why? Well, you can meddle with the production porcentages and lower, for example, the percentage dedicated to make planes. That will save you supplies (made by HI), that can be used for other purposes. Basically, if you are low on HI because you didnt evacuate enough, you can do something about it (lowering the amount of supplies dedicated to make planes, for example). However, if you are low on Armaments because you didnt evacuate enough, there is nothing you can do. Am I right?

2. One doubt, Is there a cap to how many supplies can be delivered to your troops per turn? (like the cap there is when delivering new troops to your units. Afaik, there is a cap to how many new troops can make it into your units on a given turn, no matter how much riflemen, or enginner squads you have in your pool). If so, do you know if that cap is an absolute number (example: no more than 20.000 supplies can be delivered to your troops per turn no matter how many trucks you have) or a relative one? (example: no more than 50% of your total supplies production can be delivered to your units on a given turn).

3. Which do you think is a good proportion between Armaments and HI to get a balanced army from the logistic point of view? I mean, an army that doesnt lack supplies or equipment due to lack of HI or Armament points. 2 points of HI for every 3 points of Armaments?

4. Is there any way to know how much is the effective Armaments or HI or Manpower points the Axis dedicates to the East Front? example, the Axis has more than 5000 Manpower points, which is more than what the soviets get, but some of those points (mainly the italian ones) are not fully dedicated to the East Front, so they are as if they didnt exist. Is there any way to know for sure which is the Armament points, HI or Manpower points which the acis player reallly has? (I know in the logistic tab you can read about the % of production sent to the East Front, but that is less helpful than comparing production points among the Axis and Soviet sides to get a picture of how is the "production war" going)

Thank you for your answers.

< Message edited by No idea -- 1/28/2016 9:16:04 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Questions and doubts about production - 1/28/2016 10:04:20 AM

VigaBrand

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline

to 4:
I notice that the axis get 33k Manpower per Week.
Nearly 10k will be for the germans. And there is a number of "HiWi" the germans get. That depends on the pool of captured soviets and the manpower cities. But I don't no the numbers exactly.
You could start a new game as german (PBEM and both without password, to test). Run two turns and look at the german logistic and the german pools at the start of turn 2. You will see the numbers. This numbers will change in 43, as the german get more manpower per manpower point which they had. The manpower points the german captured from soviets only bring some small numbers of "HiWis".

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RE: Questions and doubts about production - 1/28/2016 10:37:13 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea

I have some thoughts regarding production (mainly from the soviet perspective) and I will like to know what you think:

1. It seems to me that Armaments are even more important than HI when prioritizing for evacuation. Why? Well, you can meddle with the production porcentages and lower, for example, the percentage dedicated to make planes. That will save you supplies (made by HI), that can be used for other purposes. Basically, if you are low on HI because you didnt evacuate enough, you can do something about it (lowering the amount of supplies dedicated to make planes, for example). However, if you are low on Armaments because you didnt evacuate enough, there is nothing you can do. Am I right?

2. One doubt, Is there a cap to how many supplies can be delivered to your troops per turn? (like the cap there is when delivering new troops to your units. Afaik, there is a cap to how many new troops can make it into your units on a given turn, no matter how much riflemen, or enginner squads you have in your pool). If so, do you know if that cap is an absolute number (example: no more than 20.000 supplies can be delivered to your troops per turn no matter how many trucks you have) or a relative one? (example: no more than 50% of your total supplies production can be delivered to your units on a given turn).

3. Which do you think is a good proportion between Armaments and HI to get a balanced army from the logistic point of view? I mean, an army that doesnt lack supplies or equipment due to lack of HI or Armament points. 2 points of HI for every 3 points of Armaments?

4. Is there any way to know how much is the effective Armaments or HI or Manpower points the Axis dedicates to the East Front? example, the Axis has more than 5000 Manpower points, which is more than what the soviets get, but some of those points (mainly the italian ones) are not fully dedicated to the East Front, so they are as if they didnt exist. Is there any way to know for sure which is the Armament points, HI or Manpower points which the acis player reallly has? (I know in the logistic tab you can read about the % of production sent to the East Front, but that is less helpful than comparing production points among the Axis and Soviet sides to get a picture of how is the "production war" going)

Thank you for your answers.

HI ... supplies are critical, after a point (usually around mid/late 42) arms pts as such cease to be that much of a constraint.

So:

1) yes you can, but the ideal is to do so by choice not need. I tend to run down air production in 41/42 at least till the Yak 7s appear. There is little in the early generation planes that is critical, Il-2 production will be low till the Mig-3 factories flip and start to expand, you can get away with not too much.

2) there are caps but they are complex. For example manpower - unit is moderated via the production of arms pts (for the weaponry) and ground elements (to create the building blocks) and the existance of the unit (usually an admin pt blockage). For ground elements you only produce so much per turn (ie the % of supply allocated to this role).

Some egs from my current game:

T28 (25 Dec 41) - 213 working HI, 329 working Arms Pts (air at 80%), ... 86,000 supply produced, 12,550 went to arms pts, 6,100 to vehicles, 5,500 to air builds, 6,500 to ground elements, 34,000 supply for units (all they needed), 12,000 for ammo, 5,500 for forts (unit and city), ratio supply/need - 2239%
T54 (25 June 42) - 219 HI, 345 arms (air still at 80%) ... 119,900 supply produced, 22,250 to arms pts, 3,870 to vehicles, 8,500 to air builds, 11,500 to ground elements, 44,000 supply for units, 21,000 supply for ammo, 8,500 for forts, ratio 1857
T100 (13 May 43) - 219 HI, 345 arms (air now at 100%) ... 142, 350 supply produced, 22, 425 to arms pts (so as I knew I have too many arms pts factories), 3,870 to vehicles, 17,500 to air builds, 17,500 ground elements, 38,500 supply for units, 3,500 supply for ammo (lull in the fighting), 5,000 for forts, ratio - 4819 (35,000 units of supply not used)

So despite having more supply than I need, I can't use it all .. at the moment ground elements are a major blockage.

Production is to need, good idea to work through the tables in the weekly report, then back to the production screen ... you can learn a lot about how arms pts are divided up as well as about the resupply process.

3) Yes, very roughly 2 HI will keep 3 Arms pts working (more arms pts factories and they sit idle - but better that than too little). I think much over 200/300 and you don't have to make too many hard choices, if you are about 180 HI its not fatal but you will need to think about using the production allocation rules and not having all you want (as a tip from bitter experience ... first priority is to supply the on-map army, units with <100% have all sorts of problems about morale and so on). Under 180 and even with LL, your army is going to be capped at a level where you'll find it hard to overwhelm the Germans (especially, as discussed in a lot of other posts, the Germans will enter 1943 with a stronger army than they had historically)

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Post #: 3

RE: Questions and doubts about production - 1/28/2016 12:25:51 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

Loki how do truck shortages effect delivery of all the above.

90%
80%
70%

What is tipping point?

Seems 80% is about normal once steamroller starts pushing west in my games 43/44 winter seems to suck pools dry

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Post #: 4

RE: Questions and doubts about production - 1/28/2016 1:52:13 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

it depends on too much to say - not least the Soviet build strategy has a bearing on truck demand.

Basically, and I know you know this, trucks do 3 things for the Soviets. They deliver fuel, supply and ammunition; they help determine the MP of non-motorised units; they are a core part of the ToE of motorised units.

Also there are points where no matter how well you manage the situation, you get into some trouble. Winter/Spring 41/2 and Winter/Spring 42/43 usually due to an absolute lack of trucks and the supply demands of blizzard/mud. I've put a little chart into my current AAR that shows how my truck pool flat-lined from the start of 1943 till the end of June (despite the LL boost). I think winter 43/44 is different in that inevitably the Soviets will have more stretched supply lines so run through more trucks and also have a more mobile army (so need more).

My view is there is relatively little that you can do about this - which is why I think you are wrong in claiming that always hitting tank brigades/corps etc is a gain. I run my tank brigades in 41-42 at 60% ToE (they are not there to fight on their own but to exploit) so if they rout I lose very few trucks. Its a bit like missing the importance of rail cap since .08.02, if you only play one side it can sometimes be hard to evaluate the real consequences of your actions.

On the other hand the summer of 43 is truck heaven. You still don't have the full cadre of mobile units (I only build a few mech corps till late 43) and all those 5000 a week American trucks are pilling up. Its good discipline to let this stock run up to ease you over the 43/44 winter. Then build a cadre of mech corps to take advantage of the summer of 44.

If you have all your truck factories and an army in the normal range (say 8-8.5m in 43), then the truck situation is predictable and pretty much hard-wired. Losses in this or that combat are pretty irrelevant.

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