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Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries

 
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Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/24/2016 4:15:00 PM   
PaulCharl

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/22/2016
Status: offline 		Great game, but as a Brit I honestly think you need to re-consider the Vulcan database entries on both databases. Yes the Vulcan was a big aircraft and yes it was designed for a hi-hi-hi mission profile but after the Gary Powers U2 shootdown (1960?) it quickly became clear that height was not the answer to the emerging SAM problem. As a result RAF doctrine was changed. From 1964 (and probably earlier) The V bombers were to go in at tree-top height, not just the last 50 or 100 miles but from the edge of Soviet air surveillance. This is partly what caused the early retirement of the Valiant. The Vulcan proved to be brilliant at it, even the Blue Steel armed variants which were to climb to minimum release height before launching the standoff missile. Also the Vulcan was famously able to out-turn the best RAF fighters of its day (perhaps only at high altitude - would need to check my references) so I believe that the agility factor should be more like 2.5 rather than 2. If you want more info I will try to find suitable references.
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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/24/2016 4:28:36 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Paul, thanks for your input

Exactly what changes do you think should be made to the Vulcan series? And what are your sources?

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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/25/2016 4:30:30 PM   
PaulCharl

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/22/2016
Status: offline 		Just tried to post a long reply to be told I am not allowed to post for 7 days after my tenth reply?? This is only my fourth, what is going on??

[ADMIN EDIT: COPY-PASTE FROM PM]

After 1964 Vulcan crews were trained to penetrate Soviet/Warsaw Pact airspace below 1000' described as nap-of-the-earth suggesting 250'or lower, 250' being the statutory minimum height in West German airspace during the peacetime Cold War. As they approached the target they could make their delivery in several ways depending on consideration of target type, weapon carried, best delivery for desired effect, and aircraft and crew survival in that order.
1. Rapid climb to 17000+' for a standard high altitude delivery (Red Beard, Yellow Sun or WE177).
2. Rapid climb to 17-20000' for long range standoff delivery (Blue Steel).
3. Climb into a Loft/Toss delivery from a few thousand feet, basically the same as a LABS delivery (Red Beard, Yellow Sun and WE177).
4. Climb to 1000' (that is one thousand) for short range standoff delivery (modified Blue Steel).
5. Low altitude lay-down delayed ground-burst (WE177)

References; ISBN-13: 9781906502300 Vulcan Test Pilot Tony Blackman Grub Street 2009 Ch 8 Weapons and Operational roles

ISBN 9 781902 109176 Vulcan's Hammer Chris Gibson Hikoki Publications 2011 Ch 3 Gravity Bombs and page 147 The Last Blue Steel:W.200

ISBN: 978 1 84603 297 4 Vulcan Units of the Cold War Andrew Brookes Osprey 2009 Ch 4 Down in the Weeds

Anecdotally, (and believably having seen several Vulcan airshow displays over the years) the Vulcan could turn and burn with Javelins and Lightnings at altitude so I feel an agility factor of 2.5 to equal them is appropriate.

PaulCharl

< Message edited by emsoy -- 1/26/2016 10:11:55 PM >

(in reply to ComDev)
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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/25/2016 7:11:23 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Okay can you send it to me privately via PM and I'll post it for you

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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/25/2016 11:04:06 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Joined: 3/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulCharl

Just tried to post a long reply to be told I am not allowed to post for 7 days after my tenth reply?? This is only my fourth, what is going on??


Matrix forum setting. Sorry about that. There is nothing we can do about it. We understand their concern with spam but also asked for a better solution.

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 1/26/2016 12:05:51 AM >

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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/26/2016 9:14:56 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Paul, I've copy-pasted your PM into your post

Your request seems fair and I've added a separate request ticket on this. However we do not support toss and dive-toss delivery quite yet.

I assume the whole profiles would not be at 1000 ft? What would the full profiles look like? Range? Speeds? Reserves? Egress profile? Etc etc? Need to fill in all of these for the range and fuel calcs to turn out right. As you can see in the game, the flight profiles are quite elaborate and we need all stats.

Thanks!

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RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/29/2016 5:27:57 PM   
PaulCharl

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/22/2016
Status: offline 		These are all the figures I can find.

Wgt Normal Take off 179,898lbs: Max Take off 204,000lbs

Performance: Max level speed at sea level 477mph, 0.92 Mach at altitude (not defined). Cruise speed 0.86 Mach at 50,000'. Service Ceiling 60,000'. Range (presumably at most efficient height and speed, no comment regarding load) 3,500 miles.

In Blue Steel low level attack mode The a/c wgt could not exceed 170,000lbs. Low level max sustained speed was limited to 400kts (460mph) for up to 1hr but launch speed could not exceed 360kts (415mph). In flight refueling was not permitted while the Blue Steel missile was carried (so return leg only).

That is the best I can do right now, I will post further info as and when I can find it.

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 7
RE: Re-thinking the Avro Vulcan Database entries - 1/30/2016 8:09:57 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks

Anyone else got info?

Esp details on mission profiles please.

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