Shutting off Illumination radars

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> Shutting off Illumination radars

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Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/29/2016 6:12:03 PM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Grapevine, TX
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I'm not sure if this is Tech Support or User Support, but I've got an issue.

Attached Zip file has three successive saves. The Russians are sending aircraft into northern Norway, and I've got two Nike Hercules missiles (SARH guided) in the air. I've detected a batch of ARMs coming toward my northern NH sites, and I try to shut down the radars... but the damn illuminators keep turning back on. I can't get them to shut off and stay off. I've tried sensor setting (F9), I've tried shutting down and ordering them to obey EMCON settings, I've tried "Drop All Targets". They JUST WON'T LET GO of the missiles in the air.

Am I missing something? There's gotta be a way to shut down ALL the radars on the site, that's a well-known SAM operator tactic when ARMs are in the air. I'll take my chances with the incoming missile's intertial guidance... I'd rather lose to airborne SAMs than the whole freakin' site!

Ignore the totally mi-located F-104s... that's just tactical stupidity. :-)

Attachment (1)

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Formerly cwemyss

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/29/2016 11:04:03 PM

michaelm75au

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From: Melbourne, Australia
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The ROE is set to only fire in self-defense (can't seem to set it to never fire). So I thought I would try setting the weapon controls to No Auto Range and Not used in Self-defense to see if that would have any effect (WRA basically says don't engage any missiles or aircraft). It didn't. The Nike still kept turning TTR back on and even firing missiles

< Message edited by michaelm -- 1/30/2016 12:07:15 AM >

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 12:08:13 AM

mikmykWS

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How does the SAM operator know its a ARM?

Mike

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 1:22:01 AM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
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From: Grapevine, TX
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Well... He may not know it's an ARM. But he darn well knows there's an 1100-knot something coming his way, and self-preservation doesn't really lean toward continuing to illuminate on the fighter that's 30 miles away and leaving.

At the very least, dropping the existing illumination and firing at the inbounds makes more sense.

< Message edited by cf_dallas -- 1/30/2016 2:24:01 AM >

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 4:38:36 AM

Dysta

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Joined: 8/8/2015
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"Target Vampire#01 has been ASSUMED IDENTIFIED as ARM."
"Ship XXX detected incoming ARM, radar disabled (EMCOM)."

If AI can do these things, it will be quite helpful for players, and more challenging for ARM missions.

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 4:39:17 AM

FlyingBear

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Joined: 7/12/2014
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You could also see it like this: If I as a casual weekend warrior Command player can figure out that an incoming target is most likely an ARM, why would a professional well trained SAM radar operator not be able to draw the same conclusion?

Setting weapons Hold, drop all targets and sensors Off would seem like a logical set of commands to order something to stop radiating, so I also think it would be good if that worked.

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 5:09:30 AM

Rory Noonan

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Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Brooklyn, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

"Target Vampire#01 has been ASSUMED IDENTIFIED as ARM."
"Ship XXX detected incoming ARM, radar disabled (EMCOM)."

If AI can do these things, it will be quite helpful for players, and more challenging for ARM missions.

What criteria makes it assume an ARM? Specifically in your example, your proposal could see a surface ship detect an inbound missile (a harpoon for example) and classify it as an ARM, then shut down the fire control and air search radars. This would not improve survivability.

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 6:10:03 AM

FlyingBear

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quote:

What criteria makes it assume an ARM? Specifically in your example, your proposal could see a surface ship detect an inbound missile (a harpoon for example) and classify it as an ARM, then shut down the fire control and air search radars. This would not improve survivability.

First things first: Let us give the player a way to shut down the radars. Teaching AI to do the same thing is for extra credit and probably too complex to be worthwhile.

Looking at the speed would be one thing. If something small and supersonic is headed straight for a land based radar it is probably an ARM. If something small and supersonic is headed for a ship in 2015 you don't know...

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 11:41:16 AM

mikmykWS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyingBear

You could also see it like this: If I as a casual weekend warrior Command player can figure out that an incoming target is most likely an ARM, why would a professional well trained SAM radar operator not be able to draw the same conclusion?

Setting weapons Hold, drop all targets and sensors Off would seem like a logical set of commands to order something to stop radiating, so I also think it would be good if that worked.

Depending on the generation the SAM operator may not have all the clues you do.

Most modern ARMs have secondary guidance modes so not engaging hoping for a miss isn't the best strategy.

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 1/30/2016 12:49:29 PM >

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 12:41:57 PM

cf_dallas

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From: Grapevine, TX
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What about Vietnam/Yom Kippur era (and Northern Inferno era) ARMs? Shrike/StARM didn't have a backup mode worth much. And back when there weren't a ton of fighter-launched missiles, making it more likely you could guess when it's an ARM.

It's pretty widely known that Vietnamese operators would shut down out of self preservation when any missiles were detected.

And regardless of whether I know, or an AI operator knows for certain.... If a player (or Lua script) orders a site to go dark, why is it only partially happening?

< Message edited by cf_dallas -- 1/30/2016 1:44:52 PM >

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 1:17:39 PM

mikmykWS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cf_dallas

What about Vietnam/Yom Kippur era (and Northern Inferno era) ARMs? Shrike/StARM didn't have a backup mode worth much. And back when there weren't a ton of fighter-launched missiles, making it more likely you could guess when it's an ARM.

It's pretty widely known that Vietnamese operators would shut down out of self preservation when any missiles were detected.

And regardless of whether I know, or an AI operator knows for certain.... If a player (or Lua script) orders a site to go dark, why is it only partially happening?

I understand but this game covers more than those eras. We've got to account for that. This doesn't mean NO this means we have to account for that.

I think there is an art for asking for stuff that eludes some of you completely. We're not working against you.

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 1/30/2016 2:20:00 PM >

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RE: Shutting off Illumination radars - 1/30/2016 7:54:33 PM

ComDev

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Self-Defence in WRA has a somewhat different meaning, details can be found here:

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=3598

Thanks