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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/28/2016 11:35:49 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Welcome to T15




All I can say is that it does get more interesting below.

This screenie is strictly for those waiting patiently to see some Finns. There were a few attacks N of lake Ilmen and 1 at Volkov for the eagle-eyed. I wrongly thought I had cut the rail line to the north so I was happy then.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/28/2016 12:49:54 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/28/2016 11:50:31 AM   
sillyflower


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For some reason Brian stood in place with only weak units on his southern flank again. The Pz xxx on HQBU went round the top whilst everyone else, led by 11th Army, went round via the south. 14 inf xx and 1 tk x in a model firm and compact pocket. This actually required quite a bit of thought and herding. I had to take combat markers off otherwise there wasn't much to see.

Elsewhere in the south, Stalino is taken with 8 arms and 5 vehicle factories, and the 2 marsh hexes adjacent to Rostov and on my side of the Dnestr are cleared of Bolsheviks. A pz corps south of Stalino does the last HQBU of the summer in this part of the world. To the north Orel falls.

Essentially quiet in the Crimea with the defenders and some Rumanians looking at each other.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/28/2016 1:09:41 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 10:53:37 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
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Two surprises

1 Brian broke the Kaluga pocket. though it took 3 bombing runs and 3 or 4 ground attacks. Offending Bolsheviks were routed and the pocket re-closed more strongly. Not a problem as Kaluga is not in my way.

2 His forces in front of Moscow stayed put. It wasn't that hard for Modal and Manstein (the latter did an HQBU last turn) to get round the north flank with a little help from 2nd Army. Khimi fell with its factories. Getting the onlu Li2 factory was a treat as it will make it more difficult to do para drops and fuel because the Russians' other transport a/c are rubbish.

I was sorely tempted to put the mot div that closed the pocket into Khimki, tempted by the sight of a lone STAVKA in N Moscow which still has all its factories, as do the other Moscow hexes. However, the div did not have enough MP to do that and and seal the pocket I thought it most unlikely not to have a combat unit in as well even tho' recce did not reveal it. Also the hex would not be captured. I went with the bird in the hand as can be seen. I had every expectation that the pocket would be broken in that hex even if the units in the pocket would not get far. Resealing it next turn would not be difficult especially as Manstein's units all had 100% fuel left at the end of this turn and better he attack there than retreating my units next to the main Moscow hex. I don't want any of those goodies railing out.

South of Moscow I cleared a wide path, herding some units into the pocket and pushing east. Any reinforcements Brian wants to move from the south will now have to go the long way via Ryazan and Kolumna.

These successes were despite deployment of a new-fangled soviet weapon: a crude rocket launcher on a truck manned by the men of the 101st Guards Rocket Regiment. The unit was destroyed along with its 25 launchers. After such a feeble debut, I don't expect to be seeing any more of these.

! of the 3 Pz xxx (yellow) does HQBU as I reckon I will need all the MPs I can get in the last 2 turns of clear if I'm to surround Moscow. I need to do this so that Moscow's defenders get 4 weeks of attrition as they are all urban hexes so don't suffer the CV loss from being isolated.

2 inf xx in Kaluga pocket. 20 xx (inc. 1 tk, 1 cav and the elite 1st motorised)) and 4 tk x in the main pocket.




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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/29/2016 12:32:13 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 2:24:32 PM   
sillyflower


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Losses 14.5K to 69K and air 96 to 110 which are both the worst yet. I forgot to record the T15 OOBs as per Pelton's new tradition but have them for next turn, which is when I shall post them.

On the other hand those losses resulted in pocketing of 34 xx and 5 x this turn, over and above the 8 xx already in the L'grad and Kaluga pockets. That's an excellent investment by any standards and I shall reap the rewards in the following turns. Why is there no smiley icon for villain stroking his white cat? We have 3 cats but none are white.

My predictions at this point are that I will surround and secure Moscow before the mud, and hopefully 3 snow turns will be enough to take all of the city. His forces around Moscow have been hammered and routed for turns now and must be in poor shape, or newbie units which have little experience hence little combat value. His HQs have also suffered quite a lot of retreats so hopefully that is causing some leadership changes. I haven't made any notes about his army commanders so have no idea if that is the case or not.

If I can take W Moscow by brute force before the mud, that will help a lot. 3 urban hexes, in the middle of a river complex, in 3 weeks is asking a lot of the assault troops.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 4:18:36 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
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Status: offline 		I been at the Gates of Moscow in many games and have been unable to take it.

Had it surrounded a few times also and still was unable to take all of it before blizzard.

Good luck with your assault.

Did not make 15 turns
Mr.X, Oshawatt, Shermanny


1.08.00 games

Turn 15
Pelton vs Pitmen Stavka OOB: 3,778,000 Resigned
Pelton vs Chaos45 Stavka OOB: 4,717,000 On-going
Pelton vs brian Stavka OOB: 4,800,000 On-going
Pelton vs smokendave Russian OOB: 4,897,000 Complete game result Draw
Pelton vs rkimmi Stavka OOB: 4,967,000 Resigned turn 55
Pelton vs Huw Jones Stavka OOB: 4,524,000 Resigned
Pelton vs Virabrand Stavka OOB: 4,713,000 Germany: 1511 Russia: 687 Resigned
Pelton vs Callistrid Stavka OOB: 4,552,000 Germany: 1243 Russia: 448 Resigned


< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/29/2016 5:26:28 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 7:37:58 PM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		I have had Germans at the gate, but only Michael T ever captured any of it. However, Moscow looks very vulnerable at the moment. I'm also very surprised that every factory is still there, even though his rail capacity is significantly reduced.

Only 1 way to find out what happens.............

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/29/2016 8:43:00 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 9:24:29 PM   
Peltonx


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Attack but make sure your playing some good old Ted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3d7QgZr7g






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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 9:30:41 PM   
STEF78


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Status: offline 		Ouch!

Global situation looks ugly for the russians....

I would bet on the fall of Moscow before blizzard

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 9:49:28 PM   
HITMAN202


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Status: offline 		MT is an WITE first-teamer and discovered many "bugs" that he reported to WITE staff instead of secretly using them to his advantage. MT's and Q-Ball's absence on this forum has been a real disappointment for me.

Incredible play Sillyflorous (I would not offend (nor be grammatically correct) with -flora.) in all fronts. AGN .. what's going on with that foray in northern Volkov River ?? How big is your push east of Novograd ??


AGS ..thought you had overreached to tie down Rostov's AP (you stated so), but to isolate so many units (and poised to do more damage), I'm shocked. I bet he will stay west of the Donets River and allow more mayhem. Remarkable.


And AGC .. goodness gracious ... what a disaster !!! And by trying to hold Moscow he will add more wood to your offensive blaze. The level 2 fort in east Moscow will be your biggest challenge in isolating the Kremlin. However since there are so many clear hexes around the city, I think you will succeed. Great game.


One trivial point. I think the Axis needs to start building the blizzard fort line no later than turn 13. The buildup of forts (even via fortification zones) is so slow in mud and blizzard you will fail to complete an adequate defense line (IMO.)


Question.. When you have a HELD at a key attack (with MP's remaining) what's your general MO ??? I found adding a stronger leader to a key Corp in the assault (yes AP's involved) before repeating the attack was often the best approach.


Wonderful AAR.



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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/29/2016 9:51:21 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Ouch!

Global situation looks ugly for the russians....

I would bet on the fall of Moscow before blizzard


Moscow





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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/30/2016 7:51:11 AM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

AGN .. what's going on with that foray in northern Volkov River ?? How big is your push east of Novograd ??


AGS ..thought you had overreached to tie down Rostov's AP (you stated so), but to isolate so many units (and poised to do more damage), I'm shocked. I bet he will stay west of the Donets River and allow more mayhem. Remarkable.


And AGC .. goodness gracious ... what a disaster !!! And by trying to hold Moscow he will add more wood to your offensive blaze. The level 2 fort in east Moscow will be your biggest challenge in isolating the Kremlin. However since there are so many clear hexes around the city, I think you will succeed. Great game.


One trivial point. I think the Axis needs to start building the blizzard fort line no later than turn 13. The buildup of forts (even via fortification zones) is so slow in mud and blizzard you will fail to complete an adequate defense line (IMO.)


Question.. When you have a HELD at a key attack (with MP's remaining) what's your general MO ??? I found adding a stronger leader to a key Corp in the assault (yes AP's involved) before repeating the attack was often the best approach.




Tx Dr T

AGN - Nothing has moved with the Finns at the top of the map and you will have to wait and see what happens with AGN but basically pushing forward to grab as much of all that good defensive terrain as I can.

AGS - I didn't let all my armour become over-extended. That would have been silly, as it was in AGC aound T9 or 10, but maybe Brian thought I had.

Blizzard forts on T13 You should change your name to Hitwimp for such a defeatist suggestion . Such defences would be far too far back to be of any use in this game and I have far better uses for my APs.

Re holds: it depends on the reason. Was it a misjudged attack or were there bizarre CV changes during the combat? If the former I would increase that attack force or change from a hasty to full attack. If the latter, I would be more inclined to repeat the attack as was. Einstein wasn't always right about the madness of repeating a failed action. What I would never do would be to change corps commanders then. Unit organisation and commanders need to be checked and sorted before you start attacking.



< Message edited by sillyflower -- 1/30/2016 2:18:12 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/30/2016 12:37:31 PM   
ericv

 

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Status: offline 		you just keep on going and going. 2 more turns. The only thing I have seen that comes close is mkTours'game, I thought it was mktours, who used a bug in the fuel airdrop system, where, when certain conditions were met, supply squadrons could keep on refueling motorized divisions.

Really impressive

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/30/2016 11:55:11 PM   
mktours

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

you just keep on going and going. 2 more turns. The only thing I have seen that comes close is mkTours'game, I thought it was mktours, who used a bug in the fuel airdrop system, where, when certain conditions were met, supply squadrons could keep on refueling motorized divisions.

Really impressive

when you said someone use a bug, you must give evidence!
I have never played with you, so where you got your conclusion from?
"who used a bug in the fuel airdrop system, where, when certain conditions were met, supply squadrons could keep on refueling motorized divisions. "?
you must clarify your statement to me, that is blatant assault with no evidence and no reason.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/30/2016 11:59:38 PM   
mktours

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

you just keep on going and going. 2 more turns. The only thing I have seen that comes close is mkTours'game, I thought it was mktours, who used a bug in the fuel airdrop system, where, when certain conditions were met, supply squadrons could keep on refueling motorized divisions.

Really impressive

you must come back and comment on my AAR, and give your evidence on the AAR, and prove that I "use a Bug", otherwise you must apologize to me.
" I thought it was mktours, who used a bug in the fuel airdrop system, where, when certain conditions were met, supply squadrons could keep on refueling motorized divisions. " that is not correct and completely your blatant assault at me.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 8:08:29 PM   
sillyflower


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Leaving the weak LVI Pz corps up there was a bit controversial though I didn't think I had any choice. It started earing its keep with a bit of a breakthrough towards the Valdai hills. I want those commies further back and I want some or all of those rough terrain hexes for my winter line.

My first forts of the game appear, though I wd prefer it if they are not needed this winter.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 8:15:27 PM   
sillyflower


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A big pullback by Brian means that a charge to the nort would be unlikely to get a worthwhile haul of trapped units, so I went for the AG A+B option. Voroshilev (sadly empty of factories), Azov and Bataysk taken, and Manych ZOC-locked ready to take next turn. No units surrounded.

Azov is a port in marsh with major river or sea on 3 hex sides. Pocketing its defenders was therefore pointless. After doing the South, I thought that I should have done it a bit differently by making a bit more effort to get some sort of pocket. On the other hand, any units S of the Donets on T18 would be isolated for being 100+ MPs from the rail head, so who knows if that would have been better. It was fun just punching him round and displacing airfields and HQs. I retreated what I could back to or over the Donets

Quite a lot of effort eliminating the pocket - no justification for not doing so as I am not comfortable with option 4 in my ethics qu. thread.



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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 8:31:13 PM   
sillyflower


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From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Anyone care to guess what happened in Moscow area?

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 8:58:35 PM   
Northern Star


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Status: offline 		I think an encirclement of Moscow is possible in turn 16. North of Moscow the defence looks weak, and there are many mobile units to encircle it from the south.


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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 9:59:25 PM   
Michael T


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Status: offline 		Massive counter attack breaks the pocket. You reform it even tighter.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 1/31/2016 11:14:57 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
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Status: offline 		Did Brian kick the table over and in the confusion claim a draw?

Actually I bet he counterattacks cutting off 2nd and 3rd PGs.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 6:32:19 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
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From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Between you, you got it right, in terms of the game. Timmy tab in terms of Brian's dreams, or what Michael T would probably have done .




Kaluga falls at last, and Rzhev is liberated without any resistance. It was great relief to see Brian falling back there are that flank was getting increasingly stretched and vulnerable. 2nd Army could not move forward there at all, but now grabs about 2000 square miles of territory whilst shortening its front.

36th Mot xx that closed the pocket survived 3 bombing runs and 5 ground attacks before giving way to attack no.6. Brian's other attacks to unlock his factories in Moscow failed. He did, however, finally get all the factories out of NW Moscow.

Somewhat reluctantly, I decided to rout 3 divs out of the pocket to enable a 12 division attack on W Moscow. If I can take it before the mud, it will be much easier to take the other 2 hexes in the snow. After spending an AP fortune on re-organisation, to my shame my troops just failed as can be seen on the combat screen . At least they reduced the fort from 2 to 0 so it should be easier next turn, and it did start off as a 1:1 so I can't whinge.

Everyone else headed east or north east. No sign of any fresh armies, though he had shifted some forces that had been defending Tula. I toyed with sending the Pz xxx that had built up last tun, to Tula but stayed frimly to the schwerpunct doctrine. Trying for both objectives could lead to failure to get either. Moscow and its factories is far the bigger prize. Resistance wasn't as strong as I had expected. I suspect that 7 failed c/attacks adjacent to Moscow weakened and fatigued his forces. That's the problem with Russian c/attacks at this stage. It is something that I always bear in mind when playing as russian. Moscow and 1 adjacent fortified hex was surrounded - although there are 2 unoccupied hexes that he can just walk into.16 more routs appear to have left the Reds with a similar number of front line divisions, so I'm not expecting much of a counterattack.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 9:44:45 AM   
Manstein63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
Anyone care to guess what happened in Moscow area?


I appear to have got it wrong again, as I thought that the Police had come along and arrested all of those naughty boys for being out past their bedtimes.

Manstein63

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 8:00:50 PM   
sillyflower


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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 8:59:04 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Losses 12.1K to 175K, air 169 to 349. 16 inf divs destroyed + 3 tk x (2 due to shattering) whilst 34 divs (3 guards) and 4 tk brigades are in pockets. Russian OOB at the end of my turn only 4.085M. Just under 200K increase ie about half the increase Pelton showed between T10 - T15 in his games that lasted that long. Russian rail capacity down to 106K and 1260 manpower centres captured whilst many more ran away and will currently not be producing. 66 arms and 38 HI factories destroyed. Excellent as my hero Montgomery would say.






Montgomery Burns obviously.

All 3 AGs making a good contributions commensurate with their resources. The last couple of turns will make a huge difference, insofar as a couple of turns can in a 212 turn game. Gaining valuable defensive terrain in the north, whilst Russian forces in the centre and south are in considerable disarray.It's the famous momentum effect. Lower OOB makes it easier to kill more, reducing the OOB further and so on in a virtuous circle.

Moscow now looks extremely achievable, especially if I get W Moscow in the last clear turn. Taking the other 2 in the snow should then be very doable. Getting the main city with all its factories is the main prize.

Only 1 more happy turn to come though, but for now here's selfie of me writing this post









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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 9:18:50 PM   
Peltonx


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Status: offline 		Don't be surpised if u don't get AGB. I did not in my game vs chaos, dam bug simply will not go away

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/1/2016 9:23:55 PM   
Peltonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Losses 12.1K to 175K, air 169 to 349. 16 inf divs destroyed + 3 tk x (2 due to shattering) whilst 34 divs (3 guards) and 4 tk brigades are in pockets. Russian OOB at the end of my turn only 4.085M. Just under 200K increase ie about half the increase Pelton showed between T10 - T15 in his games that lasted that long. Russian rail capacity down to 106K and 1260 manpower centres captured whilst many more ran away and will currently not be producing. 66 arms and 38 HI factories destroyed. Excellent as my hero Montgomery would say.






Montgomery Burns obviously.

All 3 AGs making a good contributions commensurate with their resources. The last couple of turns will make a huge difference, insofar as a couple of turns can in a 212 turn game. Gaining valuable defensive terrain in the north, whilst Russian forces in the centre and south are in considerable disarray.It's the famous momentum effect. Lower OOB makes it easier to kill more, reducing the OOB further and so on in a virtuous circle.

Moscow now looks extremely achievable, especially if I get W Moscow in the last clear turn. Taking the other 2 in the snow should then be very doable. Getting the main city with all its factories is the main prize.

Only 1 more happy turn to come though, but for now here's selfie om me writing this post










Your so close. If u don't get the factorys or Moscow, your looking at an average game as Germany and it will come down to 42.

Average game in my book as nothing is settle - not enough industry destroyed not
Taking Moscow.

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Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 236
RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/2/2016 7:17:00 AM   
RKhan


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/17/2016
From: My Secret Bunker
Status: offline 		Pelton: brilliant that you keep such metrics, but who resigned? I hope it was not you.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 237
RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/2/2016 7:20:14 AM   
RKhan


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/17/2016
From: My Secret Bunker
Status: offline 		Sillyflower: an exemplary game. No offence to Brian G, but you could hardly have done much better against the AI (assuming you buff up the AI decently).

Are you playing with the sudden death rules in 1941? If so, do you fancy your chances of a 1941 win?

(in reply to RKhan)
Post #: 238
RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/2/2016 8:33:04 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Tx RKhan

Not playing sudden death and I won't get Voroznez either.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

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(in reply to RKhan)
Post #: 239
RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 2/2/2016 9:15:46 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RKhan

Pelton: brilliant that you keep such metrics, but who resigned? I hope it was not you.


They resigned.


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Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to RKhan)
Post #: 240
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