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Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game play?

 
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Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game play? - 2/4/2016 4:03:40 AM   
walkerd


Posts: 184
Joined: 10/7/2004
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I guess most people play with PDU on, greater control, ability to manage aircraft better.

I was reading an AAR the other day and noticed the massive Japanese air building program, losing 3 aircraft for every 2 allied aircraft and it was clear this was a great victory and the Japanese air force was huge. The ability to bring forward some frames and then mass produce them just seems, well, silly - at least to me.

Was wondering about playing the next game (as Japan) with PDU off.


So, does it really affect long term Japanese production and strategy?


Is it a good thing? Bad thing? Or just a thing?

Any feedback would be appreciated.


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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 6:52:18 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		PDU-OFF really brings more "hardship" for both players - though a little more to the Japanese. It adds more "real-feel" to the game.
Allies cannot freely swap their Lightnings from WC units for few P-26s... Some units (especially marines) had actually to downgrade their Wildcats to Buffaloes to keep CVs supplied with Cats...
Japs on the other hand had to spread their production a little more, producing few more models to keep units supplied or at least to swap them along the upgrade paths. They can still produce 10000 Georges/Jacks, but only so many units will be able to deploy them.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 7:28:18 AM   
Pilsator


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/24/2014
From: Berlin
Status: offline 		PDU Off is really enjoyable, makes the game "feeling" much better.
As the Japanese you really have to thing about what you are producing, not just mass produce the best planes.



As the Allies, you have to choose which Squadrons you place where, always keeping in mind, how they are able to upgrade,
No changing from 2Es to 4es at your free choice.

In both cases even obsolete planes have to be used a while longer.

I really enjoy my game with PDU off as i personally thing it makes the game better.
And you learn that Sonias and Marys are not that bad.


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Post #: 3
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 11:05:44 AM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		It is more realistic but requires also more micromanaging.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 11:11:55 AM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pilsator

And you learn that Sonias and Marys are not that bad.





For which purpose ? Dont get me wrong - I thought the same for a while. However everyone of these planes has huge drawbacks. Most can be only used for short range ground bombing. Now there is a use for that, but the effect is almost zero. At least as long the target arent troops in the open. Yes, it might add a bit of supression to the target in eg. cities, digged in good terrain etc. but I found it isnt even worth the effort to handle those missions (timewise). Now if the target is defended they will suffer heavily. You can prevent that be sending huge escort groups. You cannot prevent Flak losses (except setting them quite high but then they do not hit). Send 50 Oscars or Tojos on a mission to escort 50 Sonja ? They rain their 50kg ones down and the enemy is digged in and he just laughs about your bombs. Now in real life this would still have an effect on morale eg. If troops are bombed daily even if they do not get hurt physically certainly it will affect them from the psyche point of view.

Yes, I have them also on ASW, but their short range and low bombload makes them pretty useless for this role.

The best one I found is Ann and produced it for a while. I may put it back in to build even. Cause even in PDU "ON" games, you cant upgrade 1E light bombers to 2E or eg. Nicks without paying huge PP cost for it. 2E cost 75 and FBs 150 iirc in the version/mod I play. BUT even Ann can only deliver 1 250kg bomb to 6 hexes. 2E bomber (Sally,Helen) delivers 4x250kg to a longer range. And is mostly still quite useless against the hard targets. But they can be used for patrol and asw too.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 2/4/2016 12:22:15 PM >

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 12:01:31 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		You can fly them from level 2 airfields with full bomb loadout. Also, if you have no house rule against strat bombing in China, you can destroy lots of LI/HI since bomb size doesn't matter in those missions. You can fly ASW with them too. In RHS mod you get several bomb loaduts for different missions for them, and you can fly pretty effective ground bombing missions against LCUs.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 1:31:54 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

You can fly them from level 2 airfields with full bomb loadout. Also, if you have no house rule against strat bombing in China, you can destroy lots of LI/HI since bomb size doesn't matter in those missions. You can fly ASW with them too. In RHS mod you get several bomb loaduts for different missions for them, and you can fly pretty effective ground bombing missions against LCUs.


Agreed, but this is only the case for a period of time (small AF size). I would build AFs I wanna use more to at least 4. More useful planes for small AFs are floatplanes or torp/dive bombers which have better bomb load and better chance to also hit ships.

But I agree the planes have uses, in fact every single one in the game has uses. Guess we can agree on that one...

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Post #: 7
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 1:59:25 PM   
Pilsator


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/24/2014
From: Berlin
Status: offline 		and they dont burn supplies in the quantity "bigger" planes do.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 3:18:20 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Any plane that can spot a sub and attack it isn't useless.

As has been said, excellent ground attack plane in China and as an ASW platform, it keeps your major ports clear of Subs so you have a chance to avoid allied subs with your supply convoys.

With PDU-on, its much more a thinking ahead, what do I need where type of game and you have to remember there is only a finite member of planes that you can produce. Its much more fun to be honest, but I can fully understand if it isn't for everyone.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 4:21:33 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		PDU OFF is the way the game is meant to be played.

Personally I wont play PDU ON again.

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Post #: 10
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 5:22:14 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Japan can still build a lot of planes....

PDU off lets you experiment with planes that are inferior. Perhaps it slows the game down some, the pacing that is although I think more effective AA does that too.

It does add a layer of complexity the first time around.

Overall, I think the advantage very slightly goes to the Allies for reasons I won't elaborate here since I am enmeshed in a PDU off struggle.

(in reply to walkerd)
Post #: 11
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 7:59:09 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		50 KG is 110 imperial lbs

A USN 6" HE shell weighed 101 lbs

So you are dropping essentialy 6 inch naval shells. I know it is not a direct comparison but 50 KG is not insignificant.




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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 9:42:07 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		To this point I've been playing as Japan. For me its more of a management thing. I have enough to deal with and watching all these A/C models is just one more level of complexity. Quite frankly I don't wish to do that. So PDU On simplifies things. This option works both ways so I don't really feel its an edge for either side. Anyway JMHO.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/4/2016 11:43:09 PM   
catwhoorg


Posts: 686
Joined: 9/27/2012
From: Uk expat lving near Atlanta
Status: offline 		I play PDU off.

But I only play the AI (at least until I retire ...) so it doesn't affact anyone else.

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Post #: 14
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/5/2016 3:44:20 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Overall, I think the advantage very slightly goes to the Allies for reasons I won't elaborate here since I am enmeshed in a PDU off struggle.


Do tell!

I do agree though that PDU OFF is probably an allied advantage compared to PDU ON. Its an extremely complex calculation though so I wouldn´t say its a crystal clear advantage. But a probable.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 2/6/2016 5:18:03 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/5/2016 9:15:47 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

PDU OFF is probably an allied advantage compared to PDU OFF


This is not quite
quote:

crystal clear
either.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 16
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/6/2016 4:16:56 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

PDU OFF is probably an allied advantage compared to PDU OFF


This is not quite
quote:

crystal clear
either.


OOPS!

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Post #: 17
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/6/2016 10:26:02 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: walkerd

I guess most people play with PDU on, greater control, ability to manage aircraft better.

I was reading an AAR the other day and noticed the massive Japanese air building program, losing 3 aircraft for every 2 allied aircraft and it was clear this was a great victory and the Japanese air force was huge. The ability to bring forward some frames and then mass produce them just seems, well, silly - at least to me.

Was wondering about playing the next game (as Japan) with PDU off.


So, does it really affect long term Japanese production and strategy?


Is it a good thing? Bad thing? Or just a thing?

Any feedback would be appreciated.



Read this thread for the ramifications of PDU OFF/ON.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3689727&mpage=1&key=aircraft%2Cwithdraw

Alfred

(in reply to walkerd)
Post #: 18
RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/6/2016 10:43:18 PM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline 		i think it can mainly help Japanese player because this side has a more detailed control on production.

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RE: Any one play with PDU off? How does it affect game... - 2/7/2016 12:33:30 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting thread.

I've played Japan with both PDU On and Off. PDU off takes a lot more work as Japan. While more realistic, you will find that there are very limited squadrons that can upgrade to better planes. When I started the game I was forced to use Nates as escorts and CAP on the front lines. Made things very interesting . You are also required to build almost every plane type if you want your squadrons to upgrade.

While the Allies are also restricted with PDU Off, which their late war production, it does not hurt them the way it does Japan.

Having said that, when I play against the Allied AI, I use PDU Off. When I play PBEM, I use PDU On. I would never play a PBEM game with PDU Off as against a human Allied player, it would make the game very 'un-fun' for me. Either way I know I'm going to lose in a PBEM game, so I at least want to lose doing it 'my way' versus the real life version

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