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best 4x game - 2/20/2003 12:12:50 AM

waynev

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I was looking for thoughts on which space exploration game to buy. Any comparasions vs Space Empies IV and MOO III would be appreciated.

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- 2/20/2003 5:46:29 AM

Anxiety

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Should be pretty easy to frame these up in comparison.

MooIII will have the best graphics and will likely take the genre into a few different, albeit minor, directions. The formula will be pretty typical 4X with some novelties thrown in for good measure. I am not particularly excited about it because it seems like the same old same old.

SE4 is what some call the giant spreadsheet in space. Simple graphics, but awfully detailed. Immensely detailed. If you are into having purview into every single detail of everything, you picked right. Eye candy it has little, but detail it has a lot. I enjoyed this one for a while, but never really got immersed in it. The simple graphics and sounds just didn't get me hooked.

STUN shares SE4's simple graphics, maybe is a bit simpler in some places. It does not share the same level of detail that either SE4 or MOO3 has (will have in MOO3's case). Its focus is squarely on starship combat with limited number in your fleet. The level of management detail is limited in comparison to either of the aforementioned titles.

If you are interested in the latest, MOO3 is the pick. If you are interested in graphics, ditto. If you want to be immersed (overwhelmed) in details, pick SE4. If you prefer a more straightforward approach with more of a focus on capital ship type combat, STUN is the pick.

My opinion, personally, is with STUN. I really have enjoyed every aspect of this game. Unfortunately, the demo doesn't do as much justice as the real deal, but it does give you a flavor of what to expect. I would download it if I were you just to try before you by....

-Anx

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Post #: 2

- 2/20/2003 12:11:04 PM

Lalkin

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What is STUN?

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Post #: 3

- 2/20/2003 9:55:15 PM

Anxiety

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Sorry - Starships Unlimited... Guessed at what the abbreviation would be.

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- 2/25/2003 4:38:43 AM

KaiMaster_pressl

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From: Minneapolis, MN
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I've usually seen SUDG for the abbeviation for this game, but I dunno if it is official or not ;)

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Post #: 5

- 2/27/2003 12:50:13 AM

Marc von Martial

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by KaiMaster
[B]I've usually seen SUDG for the abbeviation for this game, but I dunno if it is official or not ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, thats official for "Starships Unlimited Divided Galaxies" ;)

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Post #: 6

- 3/2/2003 10:43:50 AM

CPaladino

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From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
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I haven't ever played any space 4x games. I'm a big fan of the Warlords Series (Warlords 3 Dark Lords Rising in particular), and Civilization (Civ 3 in particular). I like RTS games, but I'm really looking for a good Turn-based game.

I bought MOO3 last week. I hated it. It was just a big spreadsheet, and with all the AI going on, you didn't feel like you were even needed there. I was really looking forward to the game, and I was severly disappointed.

I d/l the demo for SUDG, this may not be the place for this, as I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but I didn't like it much at all. It was MUCH better than Moo3, but that's not saying much.

I d/l the demo for Space Empires 4, and I fell in love instantly. The graphics suck bad. The sound sucks bad, but I prefer that one the best.

I sugest d/l the demos and try them out.

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Post #: 7

- 3/2/2003 12:45:49 PM

dpstafford

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPaladino
[B]I bought MOO3 last week. I hated it.[/B][/QUOTE]
Say it ain't so.....! My copy arrives on Monday.

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Post #: 8

- 3/2/2003 1:33:08 PM

CPaladino

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Yeah, hate to be the bringer of bad news, but it's not just me either... It's getting CREAMED in the forums. TONS of people screaming about how bad it is. Most saying they are going back to Moo2, or SEIV.

The dev. team is running around trying to do damage control via. a patch.

I don't want to sway you either way too much. I would recommend doing the following:

1) Check ebay for the game, from what I hear there are quite a number of copies on there
2) Check ALL the reviews you can
3) Get it from a store that will allow returns, like Electronics Boutique
4) Check the forums ([url]www.ina-community.com/forums[/url]) and see what is going on.

If you do get it, I'm curious what you think of it.

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Post #: 9

- 3/3/2003 11:11:30 PM

Anxiety

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Well, I have seen some pretty hefty flames for MOO3 as well. I have looked it over (reviews, previews) and just don't see the appeal myself. The graphics disturb me. Mostly the powdered blue look of everything that seems out of place for a space sim. But also, I am finding myself just maybe growing out of wanting to play the same game I did years ago with updated graphics.

SE4 was interesting for a bit, but I tired of the lack of immersion. I just never felt like I was really a part of the game.

I've liked Starships Unlimited because of the focus of the game, starship combat, and a more streamlined approach. And wierdly enough, I have been much more immersed in this game than the others, even with the basic graphics and sound.

I have some interest in the upcoming Galactic Civilizations, mostly in its claim to excellent random events and the advanced AI. But, I also am skeptical as it too seems like the same formulae presented in every 4x space game.

-Anxiety

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Post #: 10

- 3/4/2003 5:53:10 AM

KaiMaster_pressl

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Well I have MOO3 also, and I don't hate it. I bring tidings of hope to this board... :)

I have MOO2 and I like it. I *knew* this would not be MOO2.5 -- it seems some people can't read or something and were mistakenly under that opinion.

And this game (MOO3) is *ideal* for multiplayer action. The multiplayer AARs totally rock.

One of the reasons MOO3 took so **** long to develop was first the fact that they basically wrote the game twice (before they sent Alan the lead designer packing). Then throw in the fact that they made the game SO MODDABLE. Already they have UI mods to improve the look of the interface, and a font mod to make fonts more readable. Give it a couple of weeks and the entire UI will have a modded facelift, sounds will be improved, and a couple more for the first patch to be released by QSI.

I think it is funny that people whine about MOO3 not having enough micromanagement when they have known all along that it was *not* going to be MOO2 or SEIV or any super-micro managing game.

This game is a classic example (if Civ3 wasn't enough of one) demonstrating how a huge publisher can screwup a game. Large reason why I bought SUDG.

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Post #: 11

- 3/4/2003 2:41:25 PM

Lalkin

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I have MOO3 and enjoy it a ton. It's major flaw (imo) is lack of docs. The good thing is once you get past the learning curve (which is steep due to crappy docs) the game is awesome.

It is SO deep. Many months will pass before I think I'll consider myself totally understanding all aspects of the game.

As far as I can tell most people's gripes about the game is either they they wanted MOO2 repackaged in a gold box or they didn't want to spend the time learning the game.

All this said MOO3 isn't perfect. The AI empires aren't agressive enough. Some things are balanced poorly (for instance the AI builds about 10 times too many troop ships), the docs suck, there are asome UI bugs that are annoying but can be worked around, counteroffers in diplomacy are broken (not a big deal since you can say no then make your own deal), and did I mention the docs suck.

This stuff will be fixed. None of it is game breaking. It is a great game to add to my shelf of TBSs.

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Post #: 12

- 3/4/2003 8:51:43 PM

Flyingcursor

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Moo3 isn't a bad game. I think we'll see a core of fans develop and grow over time once the nuances of the game are figured out. It's definitely has a learning curve. It's like Tequila or Vodka. Once you aquire a taste.......

I personally prefer SUDG because I like the faster pace but I think that over time I'll find just as much enjoyment in Moo3

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Post #: 13

- 3/4/2003 9:15:11 PM

CPaladino

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Was Civ3 a big disapointement to everyone? I played Civ1, and skipped Civ2. But I really like civ3. Am I in the minority?

-Chris

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Post #: 14

- 3/5/2003 9:51:53 PM

Grizpin

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I tried MOO3. It was a love/hate relationship but in the end I took it back. It wasn't what I was looking for in a galactic empire game. I look forward to Galactic Civilizations when it is released on the 26th of March.

http://www.galciv.com/

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Post #: 15

- 3/7/2003 1:30:57 AM

Anxiety

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Ugh... Doesn't it say something about MOO3 that people will get more excited about it once the mods are available? Maybe I've been through this gauntlet too many times before, but I don't want to purchase a game in which I have to install mods to make it acceptable. Where patches are now a commonplace means of deploying unfinished software, mods will soon become the same. I can well see publishers looking towards mods as a means in which to counteract/disclaim poor work.

Ok, that philosophy lesson was free...
-Anxiety

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Post #: 16

- 3/24/2003 4:18:18 AM

gunny

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPaladino
[B]Was Civ3 a big disapointement to everyone? I played Civ1, and skipped Civ2. But I really like civ3. Am I in the minority?

-Chris [/B][/QUOTE]

Well that explains it, you skipped civ2, not alot of difference in civ 2 to 3, especially when there have been leaps and bounds of changes in computer games during the lull between 2 and 3. People expected more.

Space civ comes out soon it may be alright, SUDG will hold me over till then.

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Post #: 17

- 3/27/2003 11:03:12 AM

Matt Erickson

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I'm hearing really good things about galciv....might be picking this one up.

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Post #: 18

Moo3 sux, but SEIV rocks! - 4/1/2003 10:44:49 PM

Hiruu

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Okay, MOO3 sux big time, I was a "real" veteran of the series as I started with MOO on it's release and migrated to MOO2, and I'd hope to be playing MOO3 at this point, but I'm playing STUN and SEIV instead.

The problem with MOO3 is that it was designed in a vacuum with very little veteran input. They designed a horrible interface with crappy graphics and a arcane economic and social engine. I've of course been banned TWICE from the MOO3 forum because of my "radical" views, but I don't have the game any longer. I traded it into Electronic Boutique and used my $20, plus another $20.89 to get STUN.

MOO3 has lost it's crown and it's not getting it back from SEIV. STUN is also another little known title that's going to hand MOO it's @$$ on a platter! SEIV (and SEV) will handle my heavy detail gaming needs and STUN will handle my less spreadsheet-intense needs. The = MOO going extinct!

If you do decide to waste your money and buy MOO3, please buy it from an online auction to prevent the company from many any more money on this crappy game!

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Post #: 19

- 4/10/2003 8:18:05 AM

Gray_Lensman

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I bought MOO3 back in February, when it first was released. BIG mistake. It has a great design potential, but suffers from a horrible buggy implementation, to say nothing of the fact that in many ways you feel like it is playing you instead of you playing it.

The tactical combat was flawed in the original release, even the point defense weapons do not work correctly when placed on player designed ships, although I have heard that it functions better if the player opts to let the AI handle combat! Another example of it playing the player.

I personally think it could be a great game some time in the future if the developers are given the chance to finish what they started, and if they listen to some constructive criticism from their consumers. and if (a big IF), their pushy publisher will let them spend the amount of time necessary to finish it correctly.

I purchased the retail version of Galactic Civilizations the last week of March, and it seems to be a much more finished product in comparison to MOO3, however it suffers from not having a tactical combat mode. Also to the publisher and developers credit, the consumer support is the best I have seen, bar none.

I just purchased this game (SUDG), but what I have seen so far, it seems to be a mixture of MOO3 and Galactic Civ, with the inclusion of a tactical combat mode sorely needed in Galactic Civ. I especially like the option to participate/not-participate in the tactical combat mode. The level of control detail on the planetary level seems to ecclipse even MOO3s' grand design. I look forward to many enjoyable hours with SUDG in particular.

I sincerely recommend that consumers hold off on purchasing MOO3, until a "final" product is released via update patches. It could very possibly turn out to be a great game, once all the flaws/bugs are removed. As of this date only one patch has been released, and that was more like a developer mod pack, fixing bugs/flaws that should have been caught in the beta test phase prior to the original release. No code patch or update has been released yet.

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Post #: 20