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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and 0s (J), vs. Rio Bravo as the Green 1s and 0s (A)

 
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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/29/2016 3:48:14 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Vehicles, Man!

What is going on there?

The end game sucks enough, that to fight it with no supplies would really stink. The game engine doesn't do well with fuel either...stationing some at every port on the map while HI starves somewhere and the same is true to an extent with supplies. Understanding how the AI pulls and pushes supply is very important, but you have to have it first!


(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 421
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/29/2016 9:45:46 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Vehicles, Man!

What is going on there?


I am clueless.

I have had warnings in Tracker almost daily since the game started. I have steadily increased production and am now at 316 going towards 330.

Should I stand-down my armor units or what?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 422
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 1:56:54 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		set all of your devices that use VEH to stockpile.

Then set all LCU's to NO reinforcements. Now turn on a VERY units to reinforcement. Go very slowly.

330 VEH is higher than most players economy can comfortably support. It means you are going to have to trade something off, like fewer aircraft. I would NOT turn the VEH factory repair on. 316 is almost double what most IJ players work with ...

With the IJ, you do NOT control VEH, ARM, NAV, or Merch points by expanding. You control your pools by NOT building, or better to say building very selectively. So you hoard VEH points, then for ONE unit that you decide needs some replacement tanks, you then set just that unit to reinforce and then change that desired device to not stockpile. Once you have gotten the number of devices into that unit, turn off the reiforcements, and turn the stockpiling back on.

Piano piano.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 423
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 12:28:57 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
set all of your devices that use VEH to stockpile.

Done. Took me awhile to find this screen.

quote:


Then set all LCU's to NO reinforcements. Now turn on a VERY units to reinforcement. Go very slowly.

I actually did this turn two. Time to reboot. Done.

quote:


Piano piano.

Slowly??

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 424
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 1:59:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Yeah, way too high vehicle production. It shows up in two screens: afvs and vehicles I think. Motorized support and tractors etc are all vehicles.

But where are they all going given the high production rate? If you use tracker go to devices and see what you have been making vehicle wise.

You don't even need tracker, simply check daily production for vehicles.







< Message edited by Lowpe -- 1/30/2016 3:01:23 PM >

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 425
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 3:54:35 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:


Piano piano.

Slowly??

yes. literally "softly" in the context of slowly, cautiously.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/30/2016 4:56:22 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 426
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 4:08:42 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Suspect he has been building those worthless armored cars and stuff without knowing it. really want to carefully focus on which AFV's you build.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/30/2016 6:01:14 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 427
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 10:20:09 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Suspect he has been building those worthless armored cars and stuff without knowing it. really want to carefully focus on which AFV's you build.


It has to be more than that, doesn't it?


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 428
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/30/2016 10:55:01 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Suspect he has been building those worthless armored cars and stuff without knowing it. really want to carefully focus on which AFV's you build.


It has to be more than that, doesn't it?


1

Oh sure ... the equally worthless tankettes.


truthfully, those first gen armor are pretty lousy except for the T98 Lgt Tank. The later AFV devices are by and large not bad. I try not build ANY AFV's until the Type 1 Medium Tank is available ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/30/2016 11:56:34 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 429
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/31/2016 12:03:10 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Yeah, way too high vehicle production. It shows up in two screens: afvs and vehicles I think. Motorized support and tractors etc are all vehicles.

But where are they all going given the high production rate? If you use tracker go to devices and see what you have been making vehicle wise.


I have now set AFV to stockpile also.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 430
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/31/2016 12:08:35 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		BURMA Jul 3, 1942 Turn 209

I finally have a beach-head on Ceylon at Koggala. I have a division at half-strength and and engineer unit for aviation support. I have a unit of Zeros there flying cap for now.

Trincomalee should fall in a week.

I need some tactical advise.

From the screen-shot below you can see Rio is building-up in the area. I expected this but in a couple of months. Reason; I would think that he would want more air power in the area.

Does he have the resources to make a move in Burma at this time? If so, what should I be doing?

I have on the ground, four divisions, one in Shwebo and three in Rangoon one of them strating to Magwe. I have two more divisions arriving in about a week. I can pull two more if need be in about three weeks.

My air power consists of four Zero units, two Nick units, two Tojo units, one Oscar unit, two Sally units, a Betty and a Nell unit. I now have sufficient aviation support but am still lacking in air fields in the northern part.

At sea I have a five CV KB, four BBs, a Tone raider TF and two CL TFs.

Thanks for any help you can give me.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 431
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/31/2016 12:13:25 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		Welcome to the new lurker.

I don't know much about him but I can say, I have never met an Auzi I din't like, even if he is a AFB.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 432
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 1/31/2016 2:29:39 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

BURMA Jul 3, 1942 Turn 209


I need some tactical advise.

From the screen-shot below you can see Rio is building-up in the area. I expected this but in a couple of months. Reason; I would think that he would want more air power in the area.

Does he have the resources to make a move in Burma at this time? If so, what should I be doing?





The short answer is: YES.

The longer answer is more involved. If he has been spending his PP's on US units, buying them out and shipping them to India, by 6/42 he can have quite a few.
A rule of thumb is that you can buy out one ID each month, so at this point he could have up to 6 ID's bought out.
If he has made some leader changes and set them to prep a relevant base, by this time they should also be trained up to their national limit (USA = 60, Brit/India=55) and they should have morale and fatigue fully recovered. Meaning these units won't be walk-overs.

Now, the allied player has some trade-off's to decide. Buy out LCU's or air groups. Most do a mix, so while he could have bought out 6 USA ID's, likely it is more like 4 because he has had to spend some PP's on leaders and buying out air groups.

Next, the allied player has a major weakness that you need to exploit: Brit and OZ replacement rates are really low. If you can trade at an even rate (or lower) device for device in combat against those units, you win. You can replace your devices, he has severe limits. This tactic will allow you to effectively remove several strong divisions from play on the allied side.
Be aware, that the allied player will salvage devices from smaller units to keep his bigger units in play as long as he can. So this can take longer than you might think. Even so, the whole time you are forcing the allied player to destroy units, a good thing in any case.
This is one of the reason that I like fighting in India. If I can get the Brit/OZ units into combat, I can weaken the allied side long term.

The Indian/US replacement rates are such that they rarely ever struggle. You have to pull off very large victories to impact those forces.

Air units are a similar thing. Replacement rates are low for the allies, but they get a lot of units coming and going. A good allied player, and you should assume your opponent is well "coached" can manipulate the number and model of aircraft exiting when units withdraw. So restricted B17 air groups arrive, but then they leave with Bolo's. So even though B17 replacement rates are nill, he still gets some via air group arrivals.
Ditto all the other important models (P40/P39). Again the Brits/OZ units are very thin on replacement, but again by canabalizing some units, the allies can field a fair number of fighter and bomber groups.

One of my key goals is to keep the allies engaged throughout 42/43. I do not want them to stockpile devices or air frames. I am committed to engaging them. India or OZ will generally work to that goal.

Last: you have the KB in the Indian ocean. If your opponent knows that, or once you unveil them, be prepared for something in CENTPAC. Only the entire KB can fend off the allies at this point. mini-KB will not survive. Can't remember if you have gotten any of his CV's yet, but unless you know you have gotten 3 - 4, beware that he can mount an effective amphib operation anywhere the KB isn't. Be sure your NorPAC flank is WELL protected and has a ton of NavSearch.
Your worst nightmare is a landing in Hokkaido. If he gets into Hokkaido in strength with supply, you are in serious trouble. Even if you eject him, and in '42 you should be able to, it will cost you dearly elsewhere ... you would likely lose Burma for example, a major setback that as an allied player I would trade almost anything except more than 2 CV's to attain.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/31/2016 3:37:43 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 433
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/1/2016 1:40:14 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Great advice from Pax....

If you sit back and let the Allies attack you they will develop huge pools of aircraft and good pilots and devices and hit you were you are the weakest.

Have a reserve of troops to act as a fast reaction force. Plan your main line of resistances, your island festungs, your close end defenses and get supply and infrastructure there now. Moving anything by sea gets dangerous in 43 with working torps...

Air Transports are your friends. Use air mobile units on islands where possible to ease evacuation if they are bypassed or to reinforce against an Allied landing.

Things go downhill fast against the Allies. They move faster than you think. They have better troops than you think. They can put together nasty invasions behind your lines.

Once you get A6M5 and Judy and Jill on your carriers you can have a good carrier clash versus the Allies into 43. Even so, unless you are really lucky or skilled you will trade carriers in a full out clash.

Try to think ahead about where you might be fighting and build some forts...but watch out for forts past level 5 where they start to get expensive supply wise. Some bases you can really build forts very high...Marianas, Hokkaido, Okinawa, Manila/Clark, Formosa, Singers.

You want to avoid getting your Burma army cut off and destroyed, very common Allied tactic. Invasion at Tavoy for instance. Watch out for the clear plains in Thailand, etc. You get the idea.

Look at the terrain and plan your defense around good terrain, x3 or better. You want AA, ART, Tanks and Infantry to defend and you want IJA 43 squads versus the Allied tanks...which are tough to dent.

On Atolls, lots of little units that might sneak past the BB bombardment can work with forts 5.






(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 434
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/11/2016 12:11:46 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		Thanks guys. I'm working on it. I give a report soon.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 435
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/11/2016 12:14:51 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		BURMA, CEYLON Jul 4-11, 1942 Turn 210-17

There has been a little action in Burma and Ceylon.

I swept Akyab until all of his fighters there were eliminated, six Hurricanes with the loss of five A6M2 Zeros.

The Bettys and Nells out of Rangoon have also done a good job attacking Cox's Bazaar and Calcutta sinking two xAKs.

On the seventh we captured Trincomalee.

He has been bombing my troops there so we launched an air strike and a bombardment on the ninth.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Madras at 35,40

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington Ic: 10 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim IV: 28 damaged
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed on ground
Hurricane IIc Trop: 15 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim I: 7 damaged
Blenheim I: 1 destroyed on ground
Hurricane IIb Trop: 13 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed on ground

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
CL Naka
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As mentioned earlier, I botched my initial invasion of Trincomalee. I brought a big enough hammer but had it in the wrong tool bag (too few ships.) I lost over half of the division and for awhile I was afraid that I was going to lose it all because they had no supply. I started flying supplies in from Port Blair and was able to keep them alive until reinforcements arrived. I am in the process of swapping them out.

I now have an Air Flotilla HQ with torps, some Zeros, Bettys, Sallys and Kates there. I am bringing in some Vals in the next few days and aviation support permitting, some Nicks soon.

In Burma I just landed a Division at Ramree Island and I have a recon unit headed to Akyab to see exactly what I am up-against there.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 436
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/12/2016 12:58:53 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Once you get A6M5 and Judy and Jill on your carriers you can have a good carrier clash versus the Allies into 43. Even so, unless you are really lucky ... you will trade carriers in a full out clash.


+1

So you need to think through that carefully ... when you will trade and where.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 437
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 9:18:29 AM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		Well, here is what I am thinking at the present.

A big factor with this is Rio's strategy. I know that he will not attempt any carrier battle until he is convinced that he has superiority. So a lot of this depends on where and when he decides it will be to his advantage.

I don't think he will come directly looking for a carrier battle but will use his carriers in combination with a major invasion. I am basing these assumptions on previous BSing sessions and his style of play. He will continue to harass me with his subs but when his carriers show, he will have the kitchen sink with them. I also suspect that he would be perfectly happy trading carriers as to eliminate the threat of the KB in '44-'45. I am thinking that the only way I will be able to be effective or even survive is with some LBA.

So my question right now is, where should I place my carriers to best counter-attack? My weakest points will be the Tavoy area and the PIs so I am leaning towards Singapore as my carrier staging area.

I am building the Kuriles and Hokkaido hopefully enough that if he comes in there I will have time to react, even from Singapore. The same with Japan proper and Java. I am also working on my recon but all my “scout 'n scoots” keep getting torpedoed.

Right now the five ship KB is heading back to Singapore to up-grade the ships and the Zeros. I am gathering the rest of the carriers at Yokohama to do the same.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 438
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 9:27:26 AM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		BURMA Jul 12-14, 1942 Turn 218-220

Before the KB departed, it attacked and a bombardment TF gave Akyab a final shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Akyab at 54,45 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 2 damaged
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed on ground

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
BB Nagato
CL Sendai

Allied ground losses:
212 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

The air attack gave us the following intel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also attacking 26th Indian Brigade …
Also attacking B Sqn 3rd Hussars Regiment …
Also attacking Port Moresby Brigade …
Also attacking 8th Medium Regiment …
Also attacking Port Moresby Brigade …
Also attacking B Sqn 3rd Hussars Regiment ...
Also attacking 26th Indian Brigade ...
Also attacking B Sqn 3rd Hussars Regiment ...
Also attacking Port Moresby Brigade ...
Also attacking Lark Battalion …
Also attacking Port Moresby Brigade ...
Also attacking B Sqn 3rd Hussars Regiment ...
Also attacking 16th British Brigade …
Also attacking 8th Medium Regiment …
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CEYLON Jul 13, 1942 Turn 219

My Kates and Bettys are doing their jobs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Calicut at 29,38

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
G4M1 Betty x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Yoma, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cochin at 28,40

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
B5N2 Kate x 5
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK Sloterdijk, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Examiner

CEYLON Jul 14, 1942 Turn 220
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Calicut at 29,38

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 2 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
B5N2 Kate x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Adrastus
xAK Yoma, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rio has finally moved his blockade of Rangoon. This was really hampering my war efforts in Burma as I need more aviation support, engineers and I have two more Divisions sitting in ships at Victoria Point.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 439
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 1:45:06 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Well, here is what I am thinking at the present.

A big factor with this is Rio's strategy. I know that he will not attempt any carrier battle until he is convinced that he has superiority. So a lot of this depends on where and when he decides it will be to his advantage.

I don't think he will come directly looking for a carrier battle but will use his carriers in combination with a major invasion. I am basing these assumptions on previous BSing sessions and his style of play. He will continue to harass me with his subs but when his carriers show, he will have the kitchen sink with them. I also suspect that he would be perfectly happy trading carriers as to eliminate the threat of the KB in '44-'45. I am thinking that the only way I will be able to be effective or even survive is with some LBA.

So my question right now is, My weakest points will be the Tavoy area and the PIs so I am leaning towards Singapore as my carrier staging area.

I am building the Kuriles and Hokkaido hopefully enough that if he comes in there I will have time to react, even from Singapore. The same with Japan proper and Java. I am also working on my recon but all my “scout 'n scoots” keep getting torpedoed.

Right now the five ship KB is heading back to Singapore to up-grade the ships and the Zeros. I am gathering the rest of the carriers at Yokohama to do the same.

I would turn this thinking inside out.

Not:"where should I place my carriers to best counter-attack?"

But: "Where do I want to fight his carriers and HOW will I get my opponent to show up?"

You cannot wait for him to be ready, that is guaranteed to end in disaster for you. You must force him to show before he has absolute mastery. No AFB ever wants to, the goal is to make him.
How? It is different with every player and I cannot answer it. But, as Nemo would explain, every player has a weakness. Your goal: find it. Exploit it. So very simple to state. So very difficult to execute. Hence the game.


There have been a number of successful IJ AAR's to date. None of them had the IJ sitting back waiting to counter the allied master stroke in '44. It is possible you could do it, but the odds are remote. Hence, I always state that I don't like to give up initiative until late '43 ... if ever. Once you do, and start to allow the allies to mass their production, doom will follow as sure a night after day.

Need a recent example: read koniu's AAR. He still hasn't ceded the initiative ....

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 2/13/2016 2:46:44 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 440
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 2:51:43 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There have been a number of successful IJ AAR's to date. None of them had the IJ sitting back waiting to counter the allied master stroke in '44. It is possible you could do it, but the odds are remote. Hence, I always state that I don't like to give up initiative until late '43 ... if ever. Once you do, and start to allow the allies to mass their production, doom will follow as sure a night after day.



There was one kind of like that -- Captain Crufts Hive AAR. He felt anything outside of 20-22 hexes of the HI was a raid and shouldn't be heavily fought against basically.

The game sadly ended in Oct I think of 44 with the Allies attacking at Hong Kong, moving up thru the SRA. I think the Allies were within 7000 points for autovictory in Jan of 45, but the entire IJN was still super strong with no large ship losses. Supplies, planes, stockpiles were rather large.

Very unique strategy...Captain Cruft had a strategic plan and stuck too it. Unlike most of us.

I believe I have talked about this AAR before, it is one of my favorites, for the unique attitude portrayed by the Japanese player.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 441
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 3:45:54 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There have been a number of successful IJ AAR's to date. None of them had the IJ sitting back waiting to counter the allied master stroke in '44. It is possible you could do it, but the odds are remote. Hence, I always state that I don't like to give up initiative until late '43 ... if ever. Once you do, and start to allow the allies to mass their production, doom will follow as sure a night after day.



There was one kind of like that -- Captain Crufts Hive AAR. He felt anything outside of 20-22 hexes of the HI was a raid and shouldn't be heavily fought against basically.

The game sadly ended in Oct I think of 44 with the Allies attacking at Hong Kong, moving up thru the SRA. I think the Allies were within 7000 points for autovictory in Jan of 45, but the entire IJN was still super strong with no large ship losses. Supplies, planes, stockpiles were rather large.

Very unique strategy...Captain Cruft had a strategic plan and stuck too it. Unlike most of us.

I believe I have talked about this AAR before, it is one of my favorites, for the unique attitude portrayed by the Japanese player.



Was a great AAR for sure. One of few Japanese ones I followed.

Can´t remember why it ended though?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 442
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 4:09:38 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

There have been a number of successful IJ AAR's to date. None of them had the IJ sitting back waiting to counter the allied master stroke in '44. It is possible you could do it, but the odds are remote. Hence, I always state that I don't like to give up initiative until late '43 ... if ever. Once you do, and start to allow the allies to mass their production, doom will follow as sure a night after day.



There was one kind of like that -- Captain Crufts Hive AAR. He felt anything outside of 20-22 hexes of the HI was a raid and shouldn't be heavily fought against basically.

The game sadly ended in Oct I think of 44 with the Allies attacking at Hong Kong, moving up thru the SRA. I think the Allies were within 7000 points for autovictory in Jan of 45, but the entire IJN was still super strong with no large ship losses. Supplies, planes, stockpiles were rather large.

Very unique strategy...Captain Cruft had a strategic plan and stuck too it. Unlike most of us.

I believe I have talked about this AAR before, it is one of my favorites, for the unique attitude portrayed by the Japanese player.


That he did. As you say unfortunately it ended too soon to see if it would have worked. He firmly believed that he could win the war with the Oscar doing everything.
Who knows it might have worked, but like any strategy it has counters and his opponent was starting to implement them. Soon enough? Again, we will never know. The game ended just when it was getting interesting ...

That the IJ had no losses is accurate, but the allies had none either. He was betting that Max IJ strength could beat Max Allied strength. I've run those numbers, and its not a good bet. IJA AV isn't much lower than the allied total AV, but the allies have:

- almost 6:1 advantage in firepower
- 4:1 advantage in AA
- 3:1 advantage in Armor (before SOV) and then its like 8:1

But, every player gets to play their game, and I was quite glad he took the time to play his. Unique. Interesting. Lessons to be learned.





< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 2/13/2016 5:23:55 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 443
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 4:33:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		His opponent got ill or family emergency. Forget which...

Some neat experiments he did:

using mass oscars in strafing/ground attack. I mean mass, over 1000.

mass conversion of LB to Nicks. He had over 700 in the pools and probably 10 squadrons changed over plus the original 5. Never saw how they would have worked out...one idea was low naval attacks against Fletchers.

Lilly IIb fan. Enough said there.

Total disdain for Frank/George in the early going, then he realized he needed the Frank. Used Jacks a lot.

Emilies as a striking force only.

Overall, I think his game was doomed to autovictory in early 45. He wouldn't not be able to prevent it...

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/13/2016 5:36:12 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 444
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/13/2016 4:55:38 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Overall, I think his game was doomed to autovictory in early 45. He wouldn't not be able to prevent it...

+1

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Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 445
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/14/2016 2:44:37 AM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		Very interesting discussion.

Yes Lowpe you did mention that AAR early on and I did read it.

Pax, I hear what you are saying and I certainly do not disagree and if we can figure some way to draw his carriers out I will give it a try.

But I really do not think that is going to happen because he has said, he doesn't care what I take because he knows that eventually he will have the strength to take it all back, and then some. He has the patience of Job and a great belief, definitely not unfounded, in the strength of the United States industrial machine.

We have discussed before that he is Sir Robin on steroids. Right now I can have all of northern Australia the same way I took Burma, that is, there is nothing there. So far the only thing I have found is one unit in Darwin. And again, we have discussed why he is doing this. His attitude is, take it, I'll see you later.

As you all know, I am playing limited expansion. I have already gone further than I planned but that is because I am learning more as I go and from reading AARs. l was not planning to make a stand in Burma but from PzB's AAR I realized the importance of Burma so I have changed my mind there.

I am not playing this way simply to have a unique game. I firmly believe that with Auto Victory off the table this is one way that it may be possible to win the game. I know that the odds are against it, but this is an opportunity to break new ground.

I appreciate all of this input, and welcome JocMeister.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 446
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/14/2016 2:47:18 AM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline 		CHINA Jul 15, 1942 Turn 221

Some changes in China.

Except for some units in Chungking that are not lit-up this turn, the units you see below are the remaining Chinese units in China unless there are some in Urumchi.

At the red arrow, since my last report, both the Allied and the Japanese units have moved one hex west after a Japanese DA. The plan is to eject them again and move SW behind the 1:1 parity stacks. A DA this turn resulted in eight of the ten units retreating SW. In a couple of days I will DA the rest out and follow them.

The five units to the far west showed up a few days ago and I have bombed and strafed them to an apparent stand-still. In the mean time I have brought in additional units to Tsuyung. Tsuyung is forts one and building.

Another Japanese division has moved out of Kweiyang to join our stack to the north. Next turn we will DA and see what happens.

--------------------------------------------------------

Outside of China I have been combining units and have formed three new divisions two of which were on ships at Victoria Point and are now nearing Rangoon. I also have another partial division on ships that will meet its remaining units at Rangoon to form another division.

In China, seven-eighths of a division is stratting to Tuyun and from there will march west into Burma where it will join the remaining unit to form another division.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 447
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/14/2016 4:01:54 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I firmly believe that with Auto Victory off the table this is one way that it may be possible to win the game. I know that the odds are against it, but this is an opportunity to break new ground.




Well, we'll be watching from the peanut gallery.

Good Luck!


PS: not new ground at all. Been tried many times, all failures. Crufts was maybe the closest, but as discussed above, he was maybe 3 - 4 month from losing due to AV ... 9 months from losing period. Once massed* 4E's get in range of Honshu, IJ is doomed and it happens fast.


* Anything more than about 400 4E's ... why? you won't stop them and whatever the target was, it will be obliterated. Nothing survives. All AC gone, AF/Ports 100% dam, most industry wrecked, 100,000 fires that will burn several days.
You need to sandbox it if you haven't seen it before in a game so that you really understand what is coming that nothing you normally have will stop it. Your best defense is not allowing it ever to be built up to begin with. Failing that, you will need 1000's of fighters on CAP and even then you need to guess where to put that CAP ....
When I sandboxed it years ago, it was like 5:1 ... 5 fighters to stop one 4E with reasonable odds, and then I will lose ~20% to the 4E's and more to the escorts. so 400 4E's => 2000 fighters.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 2/14/2016 5:16:50 AM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)
Post #: 448
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/14/2016 7:59:15 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		If you see Sir Robin, you have to press forward more aggresively methinks.
Aim for larger and quicker expansion, eye Noumea / Fiji / Perth / Aleutheans. Push him to the line, make him fight while you are still strong and he is still weak. Plus you might trade some of that additional space for time later.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 449
RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo as the Red 1s and... - 2/14/2016 12:05:06 PM   
el lobo


Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

..... make him fight while you are still strong and he is still weak.

BURMA Jul 16, 1942 Turn 222

How about here?






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 450
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