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Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 3:06:26 PM

Garfieldthecat

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Hi,

Thinking about getting either WITE, WITW, or WITP:AE.

Was wondering how long each turn takes to setup (once the initial crazyness dies down), and how long it takes to play one of the longer campaigns.

Also, any thoughts between this and WITW? I know the obvious, with one being mainly land/air, with this being more naval (and logistical) and of course a way larger OOB and area.

If it helps, I've played the original DOS Pacific War and the free Matrix updated version as well as the DOS Western Front. So complex games aren't a problem for me.

No way I have time to play either WITE/WITW and WITP:AE! Unless I win the lottery and can retire, LOL.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 3:22:14 PM

Mundy

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In my Allied game, I usually flip a turn within a half hour. The first turn, however did take a few hours to kick off. Lots of stuff to organize.

In my Japanese game, I'm usually done in half the time of the Allied game. Everything seems to be perpetually in-transit.

It all depends, though. Some players analyze everything every turn. I mainly make tweaks once it's running.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 3:28:26 PM

witpqs

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It will depend entirely on your approach to it.

If you decide to tend to many of the games myriad of details the best you can, some turns can be as short as 20 minutes or less but many can be hours long. And if you take time to think things over as you go through that increases the time, running through as fast as you can to just do things you have already decided on will decrease the time.

If you play versus the AI your play will not be influenced by norms reached with your opponent. But if you play PBM your turn style might vary depending on the opponent. Some love to flip turns in 10 minutes to 30 minutes (only longer for hellishly complex turns) and complete several turns per day. Others have situations plus styles that allow only a few turns per week.

The length of the game depends on what two opponents decide (vs AI is totally on you, of course) plus how the game is going. Some players just quit when things go badly against them, others stick to it. This game, IMO, really requires that you like the journey itself because the specific outcomes will usually depart greatly from your plans! But of course if one side is resoundingly defeated by Jan 1, 1943 then the game won't last into 1945.

My current PBM has been running for more than 4 years and is in early November 1944. When we started we averaged more than 1 turn per day, but lately we are lucky to get in 4 or 5 per week, often completing fewer (mostly due to my opponent's RL commitments). Some opponents walk away in frustration from that type of PBM, others stick with it. It all varies!

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 3:47:02 PM

Canoerebel

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As for this game vs. WitE or WitW, the proof is in the pudding. This game has been out for seven years. WitE has been out for about four. WitW for about one. Even though this game is much older and therefore should have grown stale by now, forum activity here far exceeds that for the other two games. Those two are newer and have lots of fans and are probably plenty of fun, but the games haven't seemed to tap into the passion and following that WitP/AE has generated and sustained.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/16/2016 4:48:44 PM >

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 3:53:49 PM

JocMeister

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I do the allied turn in about 15 minutes if you average it out. At least up until 44 where the sheer amount of stuff makes it take longer.

I played all three games but AE is the one I always come back to. Didn�t like WitW. They made some very odd decisions on the VP system and the MED/EUROPE theater doesn�t work very well with the engine. Not to mention the 1 week turns....

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 4:03:52 PM

Lokasenna

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Sometimes you can complete the orders phase of turns in less than 5 or 10 minutes. It just depends on what you've got going on. Against the AI, I would actually recommend just closing some turns out without changing any orders as long as it's relatively safe to do so. That way, you'll get to the end game sooner.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 5:30:49 PM

pontiouspilot

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I find the 1st 30 days to take a long time per turn. The second 60 days take about half as long and after that they settle into a much more rapid turn-over. If you manage to last into '44 the sheer number of Allied units and fronts will bog things down again.

I haven't played the Japanese end often or competently enough to know fully how long economy management should take. For the Allies it really doesn't need micro-management.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 5:40:39 PM

Anachro

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I think the time required per turn goes down exponentially once the initial moves are put in, especially in scenarios. However, it can still take awhile to do all the housekeeping each turn in a grand campaign (definitely when you are playing a PBEM as I'm discovering).

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 6:04:16 PM

Lowpe

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Ok, some biggies not mentioned.

VS the AI, You can turn off replays and summaries and let the computer run the turn. Then you simply glance at the combat report. Since you are playing the AI break the rear area down into sectors and only do one sector each turn, rotating them. Check your active fronts daily, or every other day.

Turns can really fly that way.

In a PBEM, you can't really do that. Too many idle resources....but you can still streamline your turn. Watching the replay and entering your turn really varies: from as little as 5 minutes to several hours. I think turns are longer as Japan, as the Allies can decide not to watch the replay but Japan must suffer thru it.

A reasonable average with nothing specific going on about 1 hour for Japan; 45 minutes for the Allies.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 6:08:00 PM

RayYoung

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While definitely a newbie, I feel I have gained a fair amount of experience along these lines.

My play has vastly improved almost exclusively with the assistance of this forum.

I play the Allies against the AI at this point. I have been playing steadily for about 5 months or so.

I have been only playing the Grand Campaign. I know others here recommend the smaller campaigns to start, but I figured I could manage as I like dealing in details. All I really needed was a grasp of the fundamentals. Most aren't really intuitive and so help here is invaluable.

I have started and restarted the scenario probably 50 times. Mostly as a result of new information gleaned here, but as well dealing with the frustration early in the game and the sense that I could do better than I was. I think I have finally managed to get to the point where I can resign myself to the early defeats in the expectation of better outcomes later in the war.

In my experience, going through the first move takes several hours if you know enough to understand all that NEEDS to be done, particularly with naval areas and air groups. Logistics alone pose a daunting task. My experience is that 6 to 8 hours can be devoted to setting up the game after the initial orders are executed.

After that, my experience has been that, to the extent that you have devoted the time to each of the required tasks in the initial orders phase, managing pilot training, fatigue and CAP levels seems to consume most of the time. On average it takes me something in the area of 45 min. to set up a turn.

I do one day turns and I have set the difficulty to hard with defective torpedos. So, that possibly contributes to the early frustration. So far, I have never made it past March 1942.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 6:12:23 PM

Canoerebel

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I just checked the WitW main forum page and AAR page and compared it to the current traffic on the AE main page and AAR page. The disparity is striking. WitW has two vieweres on the main page, zero on the AAR page. AE has 12 on the main page and 17 on the AAR page.

Back during my AE sabbatical, I looked at WitW as a possible new venue. There are players that are passionately in favor of the game, but the overall lack of enthusiasm dissuaded me from making the jump (not to mention of few queries to AE players who were giving WitW a try).

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Post #: 11

RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 6:20:27 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ok, some biggies not mentioned.

VS the AI, You can turn off replays and summaries and let the computer run the turn. Then you simply glance at the combat report. Since you are playing the AI break the rear area down into sectors and only do one sector each turn, rotating them. Check your active fronts daily, or every other day.

Turns can really fly that way.

In a PBEM, you can't really do that. Too many idle resources....but you can still streamline your turn. Watching the replay and entering your turn really varies: from as little as 5 minutes to several hours. I think turns are longer as Japan, as the Allies can decide not to watch the replay but Japan must suffer thru it.

A reasonable average with nothing specific going on about 1 hour for Japan; 45 minutes for the Allies.

In PBEM as Allies if you don't watch the replay, it won't generate your combat report, combat events, operations report, or SIGINT text files.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/16/2016 8:41:31 PM

bomccarthy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Garfieldthecat

Also, any thoughts between this and WITW? I know the obvious, with one being mainly land/air, with this being more naval (and logistical) and of course a way larger OOB and area.

The primary distinction between WITP and WITE/WITW is the naval/air vs. ground/air focus of the games. There are no ships in WITW, which means most WITP aficionados won�t warm to it. However, WITW�s ground system is much more detailed and exciting, with the developers promising to bring much of it (especially the logistics system) to WITE 2.0.

I am taking a few months break from WITP and just started playing WITW. I kind of like the air system, although I am still learning all of the interface screens. It�s much more �HQ-oriented� � you plan �air directives� (missions) through the Air HQs and some of the parameters (such as altitude) of these directives are controlled by �air doctrines� for each Air HQ, although you can override them. Having said that, some of the interfaces aren�t all that intuitive � I wish I could see the fatigue and morale level of each air unit in the screen where I select the air groups to fly in an air directive, without having to open up the unit details screen for each air unit.

Even though a turn represents seven days, you can select which day(s) an air directive will be carried out, although if you select only one day and weather or other factors scratch that mission, you�re out of luck for the week. Here too, I wish you could select alternative targets for a strategic bombing mission (unless I am missing something), rather than expand the geographic target area (a neat feature) and/or order the directive to fly on multiple days, which could mean the 8th AF attacking the same heavily defended city two or three days in the same week.

I think WITP�s aerial combat replay is more exciting than WITW�s aerial combat resolution � it gives you an instant sense of how well your air units did in combat. In WITW you have to wade through air combat results screens to get spreadsheet-style reports. On the other hand, since each turn represents seven days, using a WITP-style combat replay would take forever in WITW.

Overall, I bought WITW for the ground campaign and to compare the air campaign features to WITP. I haven�t been disappointed and am planning to buy WITE 2.0 when it is ready.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/17/2016 5:38:37 AM

Barb

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My usual turn length for both PBEMs in 1-2/1943 is about 2 hours - complete with watching Combat Replay and checking (too) many things. If something BIG happens it may take about 3 hours total. Then there is "once-per-month-pilot-training-attendance", which can take even more as aircrews are switched from one training to other, from training units to pools and from combat units those with very high exp are being sent back to reserve pool for later use and their places are being taken by trained, yet inexperienced guys...

I also do not create "elite" units by stuffing them with TRACOM/high exp pilots on purpose. They have to fight it out with the enemy to be the "cr�me-de-la-cr�me". (My highest scoring IJAAF unit is still flying Ki-43-Ic!)

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/17/2016 7:39:20 AM

Encircled

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I like WITE, but this game is on a completely different level.

I'm a JFB micro-manager, so always tend to take a couple of hours, but whatever floats your boat!

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/17/2016 10:38:28 AM

Trugrit

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It all depends on what kind of player you are and how much time you want to devote to the game so don�t be afraid of the time factor. But, I will warn you that if you develop a taste for this game it is very addictive and you can get in over your head real fast. If you are interested in 20th century modern industrial warfare and the logistics that are
Required to sustain it this is a must have game.

I�ve never played WITW or WITE so I�m not sure they are comparable to WITPAE in scope or time.

In WITPAE not all turns are equal. In my case they can run from short around 5 Min. to an Hour or more.
This is of course after you have learned what you are looking for and what to do with it.

Turn resolution for me can take 3 to 10 min. because there are certain things I want to look at.
There are 9 options available to adjust the turn resolution speeds for different elements so you can look
Longer at what you want. The game is highly configurable.

The AI is ready to play 24/365 on your schedule. There are some very fine players here and the support and the forum are second to none. I�m sure that you can find an e-mail opponent that won�t rush you. One turn a day is probably the average but there are players who only average a turn a week.

In any case the time factor should not be your major consideration. The major consideration is will you enjoy the game. I have posted on this simple test before:

There are many detailed things you need to know in WITPAE about WW2 naval, air and ground weapons platforms and methods. As an example, players of WITPAE know the difference between an AR and an ARD and how they are deployed and why. Knowing how to deploy the right tools and methods to save and repair a damaged ship doesn�t come up a lot at cocktail parties or in most wargames; but here is the bottom line - If you don�t think a game that involves a lot of very detailed things like repairing and upgrading damaged ships is fun then WITPAE may not be the game for you.

As a joke � I�m going to send �Pacific Clint� below to a friend of mine who is also thinking about getting the game.

All the best to you.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/18/2016 5:45:09 PM

wneumann

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Late war Allied turns can be very long - especially when factoring in pilot training, convoy route management (at sea), loading/unloading of transport shipping in rear-area ports. The more closely managed you're doing these (and other) functions, the more labor intensive and time consuming they become. My level of (AE game) management plus RL has gradually reduced my turn frequency from almost daily to 2-3 turns/week. Much of the added time is also due to the sheer quantity of "stuff" owned by AFB's in 1944 and later vs earlier in the campaign.

< Message edited by wneumann -- 2/18/2016 6:47:31 PM >

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/18/2016 5:57:02 PM

Garfieldthecat

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Wow, many thanks to all the replied. Sorry the delay in responding, got busy yesterday.

BTW, love the Clint Eastwood pic

I'll probably be like several posters here, playing Allied vs Japan AI. Never really been interested in playing the Japanese side, even with the original PacWar. Still deciding what to get, tempted to just get both and try them to see which I like more. I kind of feel like I owe Matrix from all the hours I got out of the free Matrix edition of Pacific War. I can't even begin to think of how much time I spent playing, editing, modding, and playing again!

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/18/2016 9:27:46 PM

HansBolter

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Waited a bit to chime in here.

Although I am a huge eastern front fan and played the original War in Russia, I got hooked on this game engine with Uncommon Valor and have been stuck here ever since.

Only just this past Christmas did I take the plunge and buy WITE and WITW.

Been playing and enjoying WITE for the past few weeks, but never forget to play a few turns each week on my current AE game.

I too play Allies against the AI.

I like to watch naval combat resolutions and sometimes ground combat resolutions when I want to see how much reduction happens to a particular enemy unit during the combat rounds.

I typically escape through (speed up) air combat animations.

I invest about 4-6-8 hours in the first turn orders.

After that turns flip pretty quickly except when there is a big invasion to organize.

I typically spend 15-30 minutes issuing orders on non intensive turns.

The real time consumer after the first turn is the actual turn resolution.

Turns, watching some combat animations typically take anywhere from 30-45 minutes to run their course.

This goes up to an hour to an hour and a half if there are lots of big naval engagements and carrier battles to watch.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 2/18/2016 10:30:47 PM >

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 2:19:57 AM

crsutton

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One to two hours a turn as the Allies. But I just like the damn game and like to look over everything.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 2:50:52 AM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One to two hours a turn as the Allies. But I just like the damn game and like to look over everything.

I'd say about the same in 'real time' from the Japanese side. By 'real time' I mean actual game time, I usually have something on the TV or DVD, that makes it even longer to get the turn done.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 11:16:51 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One to two hours a turn as the Allies. But I just like the damn game and like to look over everything.

This is an important point. The most amazing thing about this game is how huge the database is.

You can get lost in it just checking things out.

There are turns where I drill down into a miniscule level of detail checking all kinds of stats and before I know it three hours have passed without resolving a turn.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 2/19/2016 12:17:55 PM >

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 11:20:51 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One to two hours a turn as the Allies. But I just like the damn game and like to look over everything.

This is an important point. The most amazing thing about this game is how huge the database is.

You can get lost in it just checking things out.

There are turns where I drill down into a miniscule level of detail checking all kinds of stats and before I know it three hours have passed without resolving a turn.

+1

Especially in the Japanese economy or Allied reinforcements management.

I can flip em if I want to but where is the fun in that? I can spend an hour just going through and changing out leaders of ground units. Or checking airframe fatigue. Or re-setting auto convoys. Or ...

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 9:00:58 PM

rustysi

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quote:

I can spend an hour just going through and changing out leaders of ground units. Or checking airframe fatigue. Or re-setting auto convoys. Or ...

Yep.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 9:02:49 PM

FeurerKrieg

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If you want to get your Europe fix, while still playing WITP-AE, check out DC: Barbarossa. I've been playing it and it is extremely enjoyable with a much lower time commitment than WITE/WITW.

Oh, and I probably spend an hour minimum on my turns for Japan. I look at lots of stuff - but that is where I get the enjoyment of the game from!

< Message edited by Feurer Krieg -- 2/19/2016 10:04:30 PM >

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/19/2016 9:43:07 PM

rustysi

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quote:

check out DC: Barbarossa

Where? Could be something I could get into. I've got WITE. Haven't played it though because I just can't seem to make time.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/20/2016 12:26:04 AM

FeurerKrieg

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It is right here on the Matrix site! You can read more about it at the forum here on Matrix as well.

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RE: Time to play each turn? - 2/22/2016 10:01:11 PM

rustysi

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