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Map Art: War in the East vs. West?

 
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Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/18/2016 3:55:16 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		Gary Grigsby's War in the East had a map that was a masterpiece. It was beautiful, unambiguous, and functional.

On the other hand, Gary Grigsby's War in the West has a very ugly and flat looking map. But most unforgivably, the terrain types are difficult to distinguish. It's hard for my (26 year old) eyes to look at. It's also very strange to see the Ardennes Forest being almost free of trees.

Why the change in art style? Why fix what wasn't even close to being broke?
Post #: 1
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/18/2016 4:48:03 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		That is easy to answer.

In code terms the map is completely different. Strictly speaking the East wasn't broken but it was missing the West which was a handicap.

War in the East uses a tableau map. The art is drawn in large graphic files. These are relatively easy to draw and finish to a high standard, but it is difficult to change the map if there is a mistake. It is hard to match to the underlying code so that the right art matches the correct hex attributes.

War in the West is a mosaic. Each hex has its own art and attributes. The map text is separate too. In the editor (with full functionality enabled) I can (and am doing so for witE2.0) move cities, rivers, terrain and rail lines around the map with ease and the art follows suit. However as it is a mosaic the art is tied to each of the hexes but I can change that as I want too. Having a mosaic makes blending to a high standard more challenging so the final product is more difficult. It does allow us to have a living map - the text changes as you zoom which is a bonus.

The reason we changed was not only to expand the map to the west and have a more editable construct but also the new map uses much less memory so the game runs much faster. If you are not happy with the Ardennes forest the Editor has the functionality to allow you to change the art yourself. The Manual gives you a few hints on how to do it but I can provide help if you are up for the challenge and it annoys you that much.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 2
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/18/2016 5:01:47 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		And the 'forest' hex does not denote a hex full of trees (despite the graphic). It is a hex who has sufficient trees to acquire forest attributes (movement costs etc). The graphic is there to unmistakably denote a hex with forest attributes. Change it to a white tile with 'FOREST' written on it if you like...

Or are you saying that some Ardennes hexes with forest attributes should be something else? Hills? Open? In which case which ones?

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RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/19/2016 3:25:20 AM   
LiquidSky


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Joined: 6/24/2008
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The Ardennes looks full of trees to me. It is a mixture of Heavy Woods and Light woods with a smattering of rough.




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Post #: 4
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/20/2016 8:22:05 PM   
cmunson


Posts: 6238
Joined: 9/15/2007
From: Austin, Texas
Status: offline 		I like the new map, especially the new indications of weather. The only thing I might change is a little more contrast between light and heavy mud hexes. I like the forests better than WitE. I always thought some of the broad clear areas could use some farmland or other graphics to break up monotony but know adding another terrain tile would be a big thing and would rather get on with WitE 2.

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Chris

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RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/23/2016 10:48:50 PM   
c00per


Posts: 59
Joined: 11/4/2011
Status: offline 		Is http://mapmod.hist-sdc.com/ doing a map for witw ?

< Message edited by c00per -- 2/23/2016 11:35:23 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 1:57:39 AM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		That is a very good map mod for War in the East!


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Post #: 7
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 8:24:39 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		I have spoken to Jison and he has no plans to do so.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 8
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 10:07:20 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
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I've been playing around with the graphics for a while, trying different things.

This is what a typical strip looks like...in this case, for Woods.

There are 6 images....what significance do they have? I suspect that they are different depending on weather.




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< Message edited by LiquidSky -- 2/24/2016 10:08:00 AM >

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“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 9
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 11:02:53 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
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Status: offline

I've changed the way Polder looks.




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“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 10
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 11:04:50 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
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And the Bocage.




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“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 11
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 11:12:21 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

There are 6 images....what significance do they have? I suspect that they are different depending on weather.


Yes. Clear, 2 mud and 3 snow/cold conditions.

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

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Post #: 12
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 12:23:03 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

Ahhh...

Clear.
Light Mud.
Heavy Mud.
Light Snow.
Snow.
Heavy Snow.

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“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 13
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 12:45:36 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		well it will be ok for WITE2, as all that needs is snow, deep snow, very deep snow or mud, with a odd patch of clear and dry so sorted

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Post #: 14
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 12:57:03 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		I have a template that has the correct hex alignment if you are interested.

Also what art program are you using? I notice that you have texturised some of the sea hexes which is nice. Paint Shop Pro (which I use) has a batch process function which could be used to texturise all the sea hexes without having to open them all individually.

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John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 15
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 1:40:33 PM   
verdugo94

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

I have a template that has the correct hex alignment if you are interested.

Also what art program are you using? I notice that you have texturised some of the sea hexes which is nice. Paint Shop Pro (which I use) has a batch process function which could be used to texturise all the sea hexes without having to open them all individually.


Could you give us a hint of when WITE2 will arrive? years? months?

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 16
RE: Map Art: War in the East vs. West? - 2/24/2016 1:49:53 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

I use Corel Paintshop Pro X8. I'm not much of a graphic artist, I drive a forklift in my day job, but I do like to tinker.

Hmm..I had no idea that it could do a bunch at once.

Batch Process...damn! I just spent like 2 minutes playing with it. I wish I knew earlier. Sadly I have to go to bed for work tonight so I wont get a chance to play around with it until Friday.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

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Post #: 17
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