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Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:44:52 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		The Normandy Campaign at 1km, available for playtest if anyone is interested. I've run it thru a bunch of times and everything seems to work as intended. Although, I've changed the Victory Conditions every time I've played it, so we'll see if they need to be further modified. E-mail me or give me your e-mail and I'll send the zip file. 1.5mb so make sure your e-mail can handle that.

Edit: Now Available at:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4384926&mpage=1&key=�




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< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 11/23/2017 7:31:35 AM >
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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:47:36 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		The scenario begins on the morning of June 7th, the day after the landings.

British 6th AB Div and elements of the Special Service Force hold the bridgehead east of the Orne while the British 3rd Infantry Div advances toward Caen.




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:48:56 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		British 50th and Canadian 3rd Infantry Div's advance on Caen from the northwest.




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:50:48 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		The morning after at Bloody Omaha. The US 29th and 1st Infantry Div's have overcome the stiff resistance and are ready to move inland.




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:53:40 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Utah Beach. With the help of the US 82nd and 101st AB Div's, the US 4th Infantry Div has made a large penetration, but is still hemmed in by the swamps and rivers.




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:54:57 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		The Garrison at Cherbourg.




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 8:40:41 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Looks like a top scenario! Looking forward to play the finished article

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 4:02:55 PM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Very interesting. Is there any PO to play against?

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/20/2016 6:20:08 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		There is a PO for both sides.

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Post #: 9
RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 1:31:40 PM   
Rokossovskiy

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/10/2015
Status: offline 		Bocage does not start until 20-25km from beach except Utah.

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 1:46:24 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Well, that sucks.

What should I call all this stuff behind Omaha ?

Can I send you the file and you can advise as to what should be changed ?




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 2:34:38 PM   
Rokossovskiy

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/10/2015
Status: offline 		That is called fields. Do not look at 2014 Google satellite and think this is accurate for 1944 or at all. Bocage cannot be defined from space. Bocage was several kilometers south of Bayeux. This terrain was not at the beach except Utah. I am not allowed to post links but take off dashes and replace with dot for map of bocage area 1944: eo-wikipedia-org/wiki/Dosiero:Bocagenormandy-jpg

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 8:26:19 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Here is the image in the link that you provided:




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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 8:45:24 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I certainly used the shot in the above post as a reference, but also used several other resources. I understand the differences between satellite photos and 1944-2015, but I came to understand that there is a defined difference between 'fields surrounded by tree lines' and 'fields surrounded by hedgerows', the latter being 'bocage'.

In TOAW we have the choice of Bocage/Hedgerow or Cropland. The area north and southeast of Caen would be TOAW Cropland. Some areas of the scenario's map would fall into a middle category, that of fields surrounded by tree lines but not surrounded by hedgerows. They would be more influential than Cropland, so that is why they appear as Bocage in the scenario. If there is a more definitive source on the area I'll gladly change the map, but according to the Historical Division of the War Department [USA] report on the Omaha Beachhead [ http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/100-11.HTM ] American troops began 'hedgerow fighting' as soon as they left the bluffs above Omaha Beach. The book also contains several photos from either 1944 or 1945 of the area in question, and looking at those I would rather use Bocage than Cropland in a TOAW map of the area.

And for additional fun I looked at several games and scenarios that deal with the subject area, and not one starts the bocage so far from Omaha as you are recommending. So, the input is appreciated but so far I am not convinced enough to make a change.

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Post #: 14
RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 9:01:59 PM   
Rokossovskiy

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/10/2015
Status: offline 		Yes bocage did not start for some way. Hard enough for allies without making them fight bocage right off beaches.

Old SPI/Decisive Games boardgame called Atlantic Wall had a good map. John Tiller with Normandy44 also is good. JT does military contract simulations so I would trust him most for accuracy. Lots of Normandy44 people around. Probably ask at Blitz game club in Tiller Operations forum for screenshot of max zoomed out screen shot with town names. Good guys there who like to help. I have Battles of Normandy from JT. Longest Day scen goes in land into bocage but Normandy44 will help more. You might even like to buy that game. 250 meter hexes tactical 30 minutes turn.

Soldiers to go to Normandy trained in England hedgerows and these are not like bocage. There is hedgerow in many places but bocage is hedgerow on steroids. SPI, Decisive games, JTS all start BOCAGE in a historical manner. Hedgerow and bocage are not the same thing. But your scenario do what you want but to punish allies with BOCAGE immediately off beach is ahistorical.


< Message edited by Rokossovskiy -- 2/21/2016 10:08:05 PM >

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 10:37:23 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

but to punish allies with BOCAGE immediately off beach is ahistorical.


A point I left out earlier as I was getting long winded anyway, but this starts on the 7th and by the disposition of forces there is no fighting in the area of controversy. Doesn't mean its correct, its the combination of factors that add up to 55/45 in favor of the way it is. For now.

Thanks again.

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 10:37:57 PM   
budd


Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline 		dont know if this will help here's a link to tillers map used for panzer battles Normandy. Its like 190megs in size.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfNormandy/Normandy%20-%20Summer%20Map.png

< Message edited by **budd** -- 2/21/2016 11:39:10 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Bocage Hell - 2/21/2016 11:09:34 PM   
Rokossovskiy

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/10/2015
Status: offline 		Here is the guy who designed Atlantic Wall: boardgamegeek-com/boardgamedesigner/673/joseph-m-balkoski (again dashes are dot except joseph-m-balkoski)

Here is the guy who team did Normandy44 and Battles of Normandy: johntillersoftware-com/Military-html

These games put bocage historically. Not hedgerow, not minor or small bocage (there really is this) but bocage. Maybe these guys did not have enough resource and got it wrong. Thanks for listening.

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Post #: 18
RE: Bocage Hell - 2/23/2016 11:09:19 AM   
JapLance


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/30/2002
From: Mallorca, Spain
Status: offline 		hmmmm, 1km scale, those graphics for fortified hexes... an old game series came to my mind immediately: World at War. Is this a port of the WaW game D-Day America Invades including also the British beaches?



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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/23/2016 1:51:38 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		BINGO !!

Hey JapLance, long time no see !

I was playing the separate games from Avalon Hill/V4V a while back and had the thought that we could combine them using TOAW. Combined them, stole the bunker graphics, expanded it, did lots of current research, took some ideas from James Burns TOAW Classic Overlord 44 scenario, and voila - Bocage Hell !

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RE: Bocage Hell - 2/24/2016 4:50:45 PM   
governato

 

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		I had the luck of driving through Normandy in May 2014 and I agree that the region closer the beaches looked like `fields', not the dense, fragmented landscape with rolling hills and no long distance visibility that is represented by 'bocage' that I saw close to Utah and Cherbourg.
I 'd recommend to follow Rokossovskiy advice and the 'BOCAGE COUNTRY' map of post #12!

< Message edited by governato -- 2/24/2016 6:54:48 PM >

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RE: Bocage Hell - 7/31/2016 10:20:07 PM   
tcarusil

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 5/1/2011
From: Indianapolis, IN
Status: offline 		I know. I am slower than molasses, but I have finally finished Bocage Hell. Work makes it hard for me to put together too much consecutive play time, but I got through the bocage.

This was an enjoyable game. I cannot say too much about how historically accurate is. I realize the first time I do something that the Allies did not do, historical accuracy goes out the window. Also, knowing what's likely coming from the Germans is an advantage. For example I knew I needed to get to Caen in a hurry to avoid German defensive build up. Rolled into Caen on June 8 and had it cleared out by June 16. There was one German unit south of the town that occupied a marsh hex. My land units could not attack into the hex, so I had to laboriously reduce them by artillery and air attack.

All told, it was fun, giving me something to do while looking forward to TOAW IV.

Thanks sPzAbt653 for taking the time to put together this bit of fun. I am sure it was no easy task.

TomC

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Post #: 22
RE: Bocage Hell - 8/1/2016 5:10:25 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		It was a fun challenge, glad you enjoyed it.

It's a shame that, due to various reasons, over time we lose the old school classic games, but thankfully we have TOAW and some others that can be used to simulate those simulations.

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Post #: 23
RE: Bocage Hell - 10/17/2016 12:32:15 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Scenario now available at : [Dead Link]

For a limited time as that site will be closing 10-31.

Now available at - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4384926&mpage=1&key=�

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 11/23/2017 7:32:04 AM >

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RE: Bocage Hell - 11/26/2016 9:50:44 PM   
Grognard


Posts: 216
Joined: 6/24/2004
From: Madison, Wisconsin
Status: offline 		11/26 - still there - just DL'ed, looking forward to playing.

Still hard to believe that Caen was a D-Day objective......

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