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Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 1:23:18 AM

Mgellis

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Some time in the next few months, I will be buying a new computer. My faithful Dell is now nearly 7 years old and seems to be nearing the end of its useful life. I figure I better start looking for its replacement.

So, I am turning to the local hive mind for advice.

Keeping in mind that one of the main things I use my computer for is to run Command, what do you recommend?

I plan to use a desktop (I like having a tower that I can LEAVE in my office). I like Windows 7, have skipped Windows 8, and am curious if (and hopeful that) Windows 10 is Command-friendly.

I would like to keep the cost reasonable (e.g., in the $1,000 or less range).

On the other hand, I am curious...if money was no object (i.e., if you had, say, a $2,000 or $3,000 budget), what would you recommend? Maybe it is time to splurge a little. :)

Thanks for your help. I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Post #: 1

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 2:08:19 AM

Dysta

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Mines runs perfectly fine, if being redundant because of the excessive amount of RAM (32GB) and CPU cores (4930K have 6 cores) that no way CMANO can use them all. It is a 3-years old specs so something newer and mediocre should be fine.

If you are only playing CMANO or alike that no serious demand for 3D graphic, then you can focus on budget for Intel i7 series with higher GHz, and good amount of SSD capacity for faster loading speed, while display card and other hardwares should be secondary. You may keep your old PC's HDD for data storage, but I suggest a new HDD as well since it lasts 3-5 years, and a backup is definitely necessary.

I could plan a quick hardware list for recommendation, if needed.

(in reply to Mgellis)

Post #: 2

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 3:15:53 AM

Rory Noonan

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From: Brooklyn, NY
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WIndows 10 seems to play fine with CMANO on my two machines.

I use laptops, but if I were getting a desktop setup I'd definitely look into a second monitor. Being able to have message logs etc run off the second window would be fantastic, not to mention having notes for scenario designing or research info open in the second window.

Now I want a desktop

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Post #: 3

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 7:00:00 AM

ComDev

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Some tips:
http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#6

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Post #: 4

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 7:03:06 AM

ckfinite

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Something I've had great experiences with in Command is the new NVMe SSDs - they're fairly inexpensive and are a 20% boost in terms of speeds, at least in my experience.

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Post #: 5

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 7:03:17 AM

Dimitris

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1) My completely non-scientific experience is that Intel CPUs _generally_ run Command faster than their same-gen AMD stablemates. This is probably related to Intel's higher per-thread performance (even though Command does exploit multiple cores).

2) Fast RAM.

3) Windows 10.

4) As low-latency / high-bandwidth storage as possible. See ckfinite's comment above.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 2/13/2016 8:10:44 AM >

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 1:15:53 PM

Dysta

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Yeah, it can be a very small PC setup with ITX board too, as long as you got Sunburn's requirements.

It's all the raw data processing speed matters.

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Post #: 7

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 3:54:42 PM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
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From: Grapevine, TX
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Hilarious, I'm finally replacing my 6yo setup too. I'm calling it 4x... 8gb RAM vs 2gb today, 2TB hd vs 500GB, and 4 processor cores vs 1.

I went with an Intel processor, and I'm getting a $60 video card to add later. I skipped the SSD for now, but may upgrade to that later too. The machine in replacing is early 2008 vintage, running WinXP. I'm hoping CMANO gets a bit of a boost.

I'm taking my father in law's advice... Find an open box/refurb special with Win7 Pro, and take advantage of Windows free upgrade. We'll see how that goes. :-)

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Post #: 8

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 8:10:56 PM

Aivlis

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Fast and not overly specific advice, just like your question

:

1. Spend on a good SSD before getting a fancy i7, most programs ordinary users run won't be bottlenecked by a decent i5 processor, while fast boot and load times are an everyday delight.
2. I'm not sold on W10 yet, but that might be due to my own reliance on some older software that I don't want to mess with. Your call, really, I'm sure they will make it work in time.
3. With that budget, if you're not aiming for high-end gaming, you can easily get both a good processor and several SSDs, backed up by a conventional drive for long-term storage.
4. Don't skimp on the case, a good or at least decent make will reduce frustration by a huge factor when you assemble it without cut fingers. Dust filters are a must for me, too.

EDIT:
5. For an equal total amount of RAM, several small sticks beat a single large one.
6. If money is no constraint, here's my personal list of upgrades, in order of subjective importance: SLI GPUs (and compatible Mobo), more SS storage capacity, i7-series CPU, liquid cooling, a third monitor (I've been using 2 for years and can no longer work on just one screen).
7. My current work&gaming PC, barring some small last-minute changes I did: http://es.pcpartpicker.com/p/9zLct6

< Message edited by Aivlis -- 2/13/2016 9:20:17 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/13/2016 8:35:23 PM

Korvar

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Is building your new PC an option or must it be something "off the shelf"?

In general, the key to building/selecting a good PC platform is minimizing its 'bottlenecks' - that is, the slowest/weakest part of the system will determine overall performance. You gain more control over this by building the PC yourself, but building is not an option for everyone.

Command is a data-intensive application - maximizing 'IO' (i.e. input/output, the flow of data) is key. That's why you'll want to use the fastest SSD (solid state drive), RAM, and CPU that are in your budget.

Also, do you need anything else besides the tower? Monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.? When I discuss upgrading PCs with people, I always try to remind them that the end goal is to maximize their experience/enjoyment for their money, not necessarily get the fastest possible PC. Sometimes investing in a high-quality chair or adding one or two more monitors makes more sense than upgrading the CPU. These 'durable' items that can last through multiple upgrades could be some of the low-hanging fruit for consideration in your splurge budget.

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Post #: 10

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/16/2016 10:38:46 AM

skorpio667

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From: The Netherlands
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Has anyone with lots of RAM ever tried running CMANO from a RAM-disk?

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Post #: 11

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/19/2016 3:43:29 PM

Nightwatch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skorpio667

Has anyone with lots of RAM ever tried running CMANO from a RAM-disk?

Yes i tried it. Works fine, there is a noticable performance gain.

To compare, normally i run CMANO on an SSD, which has an actual reading speed of about 360mb/s and writing speed of 250mb/s.
Obviously not the best hardware available.
RamDisk is soo much faster, its not even funny. It benchmarked it with a reading speed of 5670mb/s and writing speed of almost 7000mb/s.

Its hard to say how much faster this makes Command run on my system. Immediately noticable is the lack of sluggishness, it runs much smoother. When playing on SSD i have to pause the game if i want to give orders to units. There are often delays when i select different units or zoom the map. This doesnt happen when running from RunDisk.
Also, when i play on the SSD, the game usually slows down to a crawl after multiple reloads or more than 30 minutes of gameplay. This happens too with RamDisk but on a much smaller scale.

Its very easy to set up. I have 32 GB DDR3 RAM on my system and my CMANO installation folder has some 13.5GB.
I partitioned 15GB off the RAM using freeware SoftPerfectRAMDisk for Windows, created an image copy on the harddrive with the same program(if you dont you need to reconfigure the ramdisk after every reboot) and installed CMANO on the new partition.

BTW i run a CMANO Steam version and i'm wondering about the Steam Client.
How much data transfer is there between Client and game? I installed the client on a regular hard drive, does it slow things down?

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Post #: 12

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/19/2016 3:51:25 PM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightwatch
Also, when i play on the SSD, the game usually slows down to a crawl after multiple reloads or more than 30 minutes of gameplay. This happens too with RamDisk but on a much smaller scale.

Specific scenario or all of them? Can you provide a save for investigation?

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/19/2016 4:17:59 PM

Nightwatch

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All of them.

I already mentioned this here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3979445&mpage=1&key=�

I use Win10 now, the issue remains but i think it got a little better with 1.10

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Post #: 14

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/19/2016 5:49:59 PM

Aivlis

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I have been experiencing the same slow-down in CMANO if left open for a long period. I ended up moving it to my SSD, which alleviated the issue but didn't completely solve it. It seems to be scenario-independent, but I have noticed it more often in ones involving large unit counts and underwater assets (take with a grain of salt, this is a casual observation at best). I also found that turning range circles for all units except the selected one does wonders for the engine, so it may be worth to look into the drawing routines.

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Post #: 15

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/19/2016 8:40:09 PM

skorpio667

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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: skorpio667

Has anyone with lots of RAM ever tried running CMANO from a RAM-disk?

Yes i tried it. Works fine, there is a noticable performance gain.

Wow! I'm gonna get me some extra RAM...

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Post #: 16

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/23/2016 1:49:26 AM

Mgellis

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So, it sounds like the one option is to get a huge amount of RAM and set up a RAM-disk. The partition should be at least 15 GB to handle Command. Is there any advantage to using a multiple of 4 or 8 like 16 GB? (I only ask because it seems like you never see odd numbers like 15 GB of RAM so I was wondering if there was a technical reason for this.)

Another option is an SSD drive, but it sounds like some people have had issues with this.

(I'll probably get a machine with both the SSD drive and as much RAM as possible...that way I can find what works best for me.)

Any other hints, tips, suggestions, etc.? Thanks.

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Post #: 17

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/23/2016 2:15:24 AM

Dysta

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I am still benchmarking (by add one more side for player with God-eye view, and speculating the whole scenario) and need to find out their improvement using RAMDisk and ImDisk. But one thing for sure is if you really need that set up, you need at least 20GB of RAM for this.

Three purchase options:

5x 4GB RAM
2x 8GB + 1x 4GB RAM
3x 8GB RAM (exceed 4GB)

I would recommend the last option, it will be more expensive, but using fewer slots than the first one, and no concern of possible compatibility issues when using two different sizes (and brands) of RAM in a system.

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/23/2016 2:56:09 AM

stilesw

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Mike,

I started with a SSD. Then, as a typical system tweaker, I decided to try improving performance. No question that the SSD was tremendously faster that a standard HDD. I then added Process Lasso to spread CPU use evenly over multiple cores (I see that CMANO now has that as an option in the "Games/Options" )menu. This also noticeably improved system performance. Since I had 32GB of system RAM I decided to try that option. Using ImDisk (free download). I converted 16GB to a RAM disk and that tweaked things up a little more. I opted for 16GB simply because it was a round exponential value of 2: (2**14). Could just as well have used anywhere from 1K to 15GB or 17-30GB. This setup works great for me.

FYI, my overall system specs are:

OS: Windows 10 (just upgraded from 7 SP1).
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K (3.5Ghz)
MOBO: Gigabyte B75M-D3H
RAM: 32GB DDR3 (4 banks of 8GB)
SSD: Samsung 500GB
Video: Nvidia GeForce GTX 970.
Anti-Virus: MalwareBytes and AVG free version.

Happy to answer any questions.

-Wayne Stiles

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/23/2016 5:08:00 AM

magi

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i want more also.... thank you...

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Post #: 20

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/23/2016 12:52:44 PM

Aivlis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mgellis
Is there any advantage to using a multiple of 4 or 8 like 16 GB? (I only ask because it seems like you never see odd numbers like 15 GB of RAM so I was wondering if there was a technical reason for this.)

That's due to how computers work, at a basic level. Memory addresses are multiples of 2 (because binary). Remember the first USB memory sticks? 16Mb, 32Mb and for the really pretentious execs, all of 128Mb of memory

Like I said, it's preferable to have the same RAM spread into two sticks rather that in a single large one, because it can be accessed faster that way (2 I/O interfaces instead of one). Also, I don't recall seeing a computer with an odd number of RAM slots in a long time, so you'll likely be looking at a 4x8Gb or or 2x16Gb configuration. In any case, RAM sticks come in pairs and must be installed as such (each pair taking the A pair or B pair of slots your motherboard has).

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/28/2016 6:11:07 PM

Beckles

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Command runs too darn slow on my older computer and I'm going to go ahead and build a new one, is Command very video intensive, would using the built-in Intel 530 graphics be much of a bottleneck for running Command? I really don't play anything else on my computer, it's mostly for Email, Internet, and MS Office besides that.

I'm looking at an i5-6500, 32 GB DDR4, Z170 motherboard, and 500 GB SSD ... I would assume at that point the graphics may become the bottleneck no matter what for just about any game.

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Post #: 22

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/28/2016 6:51:47 PM

Dimitris

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If you are planning on getting a new PC specifically for Command I'd suggest holding off a bit.

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 2/28/2016 7:37:06 PM

Beckles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

If you are planning on getting a new PC specifically for Command I'd suggest holding off a bit.

Why, is Command going away?

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Post #: 24

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/4/2016 6:09:10 AM

HaughtKarl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

If you are planning on getting a new PC specifically for Command I'd suggest holding off a bit.

New CPU's around the corner or something else on your guys' part?

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Post #: 25

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/4/2016 6:49:36 AM

Nightwatch

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There will be Performance improvements with patch 1.11.
Nothing spectacular is happening on the hardware front.

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Post #: 26

RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/4/2016 6:58:37 AM

Dysta

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Well, at least it is a good news for my x79 system. It was a 2013 setup.

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/4/2016 7:22:03 AM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightwatch
There will be Performance improvements with patch 1.11.

Since our official update releases are not simple bugfix collections but add significant new functionality (we've been often told that other companies would charge for these updates), I think the term "patch" is ill-fitted

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/5/2016 8:31:18 PM

Beckles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nightwatch

There will be Performance improvements with patch 1.11.
Nothing spectacular is happening on the hardware front.

Well, my previous computer is six years old, and was modern but not state of the art when I bought it six years ago, so I was due for an upgrade ...

For just under $600 (after 2 $20 mail-in rebates) I just last night assembled a new computer (only the second time I've assembled my own actually, the last one I did almost 20 years ago), i5-6500, z170 motherboard, economical 512 GB SSD (Mushkin from Newegg), 32 GB DDR4 (2666) RAM (4 x 8 GB), Cooler Master case, DVD-R/W, and 430 watt power supply. Costco actually had a nice system for $650 on clearance from Dell I had considered, but this one puts that to shame needless to say for less money.

Hoping I'll see good performance improvements on Command!

The fact there's no huge advances soon in hardware makes it attractive for me to do this now, I won't be missing out on anything in a few months (I have the latest Intel processor and DDR4 anyway).

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RE: Looking for advice...new computer - 3/5/2016 9:44:38 PM

Dannyp19

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I just did an upgrade to win10 from win7 (which was free). . .and once I figured out how to optimize win10. I was really impressed with the performance gains in CMANO and my other programs as well.

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Post #: 30