Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Obvert, I got the Alfred stamp of approval for defensive CAP:

2. I am never in favour of HRs. In almost all instances a HR benefits one side and is a very lazy way for the disadvantaged to limit their disadvantage. In almost all instances, there is a legitimate tactic which obviates the necessity of a HR. A classic example is the constant whining of players that a HR is necessary to combat high altitude sweeps. You have consistently implemented the tactics which some of us have been saying for years are the correct response, and your results have been outstanding. Alfred

Of course, every game is different but I have done very well versus Jocke's Lightning sweeps so far this game. Knock on wood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have done it against the first two models of the p47...

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have done it against the first two models of the p47...

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

They're increasing ALT restrictions though, right? This suggestion is late war when (I assume) CAP will have a higher limit.

Yes, but I probably won't climb with them...I want the air to air combat to be very low.

Don't we all?!?

I found that it was best to use layered CAP late, but I played with nearly every combination possible during my campaign games. Recently in tests I found Japanese defenders did well up high but were often skewered by divers without any chance to fight back if set all low.

It al depends on where you are and the other factors of course, but I think the ability of IJ fighters to climb makes them useful up high even against the best. This then leaves some lower CAP to fight bombers.

Let me know if you've discovered otherwise in my hiatus, as I'd like to understand this all better. Maybe there is a CR in your game you can point to where low CAP worked?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP is correct in that you need numbers. As a very rough rule of thumb, it isn't worth defending if you can't really punish that first wave of Jugs sweepers, and to do that you need near 200 planes at the kind of settings I use.

If you try to fight them with equal planes you will never do well & create hideously good Allied pilots.

To fight with the low CAP idea I read theElf, Lobaron, Alfred and PaxMondo a lot! I experimented a lot. In this game I have given Jocke two very bloody noses when he has tried to use Lightning sweeps...I feel very confident that in this game I will be able to standup to Allied fighters thru 1944.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP is correct in that you need numbers. As a very rough rule of thumb, it isn't worth defending if you can't really punish that first wave of Jugs sweepers, and to do that you need near 200 planes at the kind of settings I use.

If you try to fight them with equal planes you will never do well & create hideously good Allied pilots.

To fight with the low CAP idea I read theElf, Lobaron, Alfred and PaxMondo a lot! I experimented a lot. In this game I have given Jocke two very bloody noses when he has tried to use Lightning sweeps...I feel very confident that in this game I will be able to standup to Allied fighters thru 1944.

FYI, I just traded positive with 20ish A6M8 on 80% CAP at 18K and 20ish A6M5c on 80% CAP at 13K. 2x21 Jug sweeps came in. I shot down 11 in the air, lost 9 in the air. You don't need 200 fighters to do it . Only March 14, 1944, for me though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I lost an empty tanker, 8k size, here yesterday to a Dutch Sub. I moved the Lilly squadron from here to bolster ASW search in the Straits of Malacca.

Pete's don't have the range.

PDU off poses a challenge in countering Allied subs. Plus,I haven't put enough attention on it, too.

Still have bases I am cleaning up. Very tedious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

FYI, I just traded positive with 20ish A6M8 on 80% CAP at 18K and 20ish A6M5c on 80% CAP at 13K. 2x21 Jug sweeps came in. I shot down 11 in the air, lost 9 in the air. You don't need 200 fighters to do it . Only March 14, 1944, for me though.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I lost an empty tanker, 8k size, here yesterday to a Dutch Sub. I moved the Lilly squadron from here to bolster ASW search in the Straits of Malacca.

Pete's don't have the range.

PDU off poses a challenge in countering Allied subs. Plus,I haven't put enough attention on it, too.

Still have bases I am cleaning up. Very tedious.

I train up a lot of IJA pilots and any 2E bomber works well. My go to being old Sallys, which I'm sure are plentiful for you. Or Helen I after the II arrives. Lily works fine too.

Petes are always restricted to night search/recon for me with occasional spot CAP duties in a real pinch. Alf daytime search/ASW. Jakes just about anything, including low naval strikes, but obviously day search being their primary function. Daves also night search/recon, but no CAP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

FYI, I just traded positive with 20ish A6M8 on 80% CAP at 18K and 20ish A6M5c on 80% CAP at 13K. 2x21 Jug sweeps came in. I shot down 11 in the air, lost 9 in the air. You don't need 200 fighters to do it . Only March 14, 1944, for me though.

That is great! What was the weather, warning time, and what altitude were your planes scrambled to, range the jugs had to fly, and their initial sweeping altitude?

You did outnumber the initial sweep by roughly 2 to 1 which is very important, and you do need 200 planes when you add in two more sweeps and then want to have fighters remaining for several bomber waves.

I like your altitudes you picked for your fighters. The 8 above the 5 and the 5 set for bombers. What was the distribution of your fighter losses?

If you have a better mousetrap, I will definitely adopt it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

FYI, I just traded positive with 20ish A6M8 on 80% CAP at 18K and 20ish A6M5c on 80% CAP at 13K. 2x21 Jug sweeps came in. I shot down 11 in the air, lost 9 in the air. You don't need 200 fighters to do it . Only March 14, 1944, for me though.

That is great! What was the weather, warning time, and what altitude were your planes scrambled to, range the jugs had to fly, and their initial sweeping altitude?

You did outnumber the initial sweep by roughly 2 to 1 which is very important, and you do need 200 planes when you add in two more sweeps and then want to have fighters remaining for several bomber waves.

I like your altitudes you picked for your fighters. The 8 above the 5 and the 5 set for bombers. What was the distribution of your fighter losses?

If you have a better mousetrap, I will definitely adopt it!

I'll check and get back to you. The Jugs were flying from Rabaul to Manus, which is well within their normal range (especially with DTs). They were at 42000, of course.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

FYI, I just traded positive with 20ish A6M8 on 80% CAP at 18K and 20ish A6M5c on 80% CAP at 13K. 2x21 Jug sweeps came in. I shot down 11 in the air, lost 9 in the air. You don't need 200 fighters to do it . Only March 14, 1944, for me though.

That is great! What was the weather, warning time, and what altitude were your planes scrambled to, range the jugs had to fly, and their initial sweeping altitude?

You did outnumber the initial sweep by roughly 2 to 1 which is very important, and you do need 200 planes when you add in two more sweeps and then want to have fighters remaining for several bomber waves.

I like your altitudes you picked for your fighters. The 8 above the 5 and the 5 set for bombers. What was the distribution of your fighter losses?

If you have a better mousetrap, I will definitely adopt it!

I'll check and get back to you. The Jugs were flying from Rabaul to Manus, which is well within their normal range (especially with DTs). They were at 42000, of course.

Found the settings. I set my CAP more to protect against raids than against sweeps, most of the time, but it all depends on what my opponents are doing and what their patterns are, plus if I have a hunch if they'll change something up due to challenges encountered.

63 Air skill for each leader. The groups are actually a split group that happen to be flying different models. A6M5c average XP was 74, and for the A6M8 it was 76.

16x A6M5c at 70% CAP at 6000

23x A6M8 at 70% CAP at 18000

According to Tracker, losses were 9+3 P-47s (A2A+Ops), while mine were 5+0 A6M8 and 3+1 A6M5c. I don't know his pilot quality. Our game is actually on the quiet side in the air, at least on my side, with only 10.6K IJA losses and almost 9.8K Allied losses (compared to my high air tempo game which is ~23K IJA to ~11K Allies only 3 months beyond this date).

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

A quick note about sweeps from an AFB perspective (sorry, I know I'm a bit late - just getting caught up).
If you are referring to our game at all, most of my sweeps are between 15k-25k. Strato sweeps may require different settings.
And the reason I do this is because it seemed like my strato sweeps were getting beat up. I tried lower sweeps and seemed to have more success. I ran some tests that strongly suggest this isn't a fluke or imagination. I can post the details if anyone is interested.
Now I'll go work on my turn