ASW Air Helen II bomb hit

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

ASW Air Helen II bomb hit

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> ASW Air Helen II bomb hit

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 1:38:00 PM

Marshall

Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline

How much damage does a Helen I or II 250Kg bomb to a allied Sub?
I been hitting subs so long with my ASW air units and none of these subs sink, they even take 3 to 4 hots over number of days.

If the air weapon does not sink, then Japan has little to show for ASW, as the DD suck at ASW, and even get torpedoed (another flaw in the game mechanic in my opinion, small SC gets torpedoed more often then it hits a sub, while having a 8 in ASW capabilities)

Any idea on the damage such a hot does to a sub?

Cheers

_____________________________

Post #: 1

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 2:45:31 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Do you believe everything your pilots tell you?

(in reply to Marshall)

Post #: 2

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 6:38:45 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

In my experience, not enough to sink her. A 500 pound bomb, maybe; however, if your pilots are not mistaken (can and DOES happen), at a minimum that sub will be fleeing its patrol zone for the safety (and the repair yard) of its home port.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 3

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 6:39:27 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 4

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 7:49:56 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

How much damage does a Helen I or II 250Kg bomb to a allied Sub?
I been hitting subs so long with my ASW air units and none of these subs sink, they even take 3 to 4 hots over number of days.

If the air weapon does not sink, then Japan has little to show for ASW, as the DD suck at ASW, and even get torpedoed (another flaw in the game mechanic in my opinion, small SC gets torpedoed more often then it hits a sub, while having a 8 in ASW capabilities)

Any idea on the damage such a hot does to a sub?

Cheers

I have a lot of ideas. Have been hit well over 50 times by those bombs in my current game.

Within a random range, count on float damage in the high-30s to low-50s, most of it major. System a wide range too, but probably no less than 15. Over 50 is rare. Engine damage usually not too bad, in the teens at worst, maybe none at all.

A true Helen hit, not FOW, will every time require an RTB unless the Allied player really, really dislikes his subs.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Marshall)

Post #: 5

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 8:03:42 PM

John B.

Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Remember that prior to 1943 IJN ASW is only at 67% of their crew rating so you're not going to get many hits during that time and even from 1943 to 1946 it's only at 80%. Also, for the entire war the Japanese are only believed to have sunk 41 subs and, with some informed speculation, it appears that only 9 or so were sunk by planes or by planes and ships operating together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_United_States_submarines In other words Japanese planes only sunk US subs once every 147 days or so.

Your planes will damage US subs but, more importantly, what your planes do is increase the detection level of the sub units. From p. 131 132 of the manual the chance of the sub making an attack varies with its detection level (the higher the level the less the chance of an attack) so your air ASW efforts reduce the number of ships you lose to subs.

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 6

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/13/2016 9:23:37 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I am losing subs often to air ASW. They are being attacked up to three times a day in some cases and sunk trying to egress the areas. Kudos to Lars for
a very effective ASW effort. I can't even get to some of the patrol zones without being sighted and attacked. The ranges have been out to 320nm.

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 7

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/15/2016 11:54:46 AM

Marshall

Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline

Thank you all!
Can work with this😊

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 8

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/23/2016 5:27:07 PM

Skygge

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/5/2004
From: Denmark
Status: offline

I have a good many air groups which have trained ASW since mid-1942 - now dedicated to Air cover over the important sea-lanes.

I never get any confirmation from the pilots on any actual sinking, but watching intel I guess some go down, and maybe I now get some dividend for the effort.

Price has been that these air groups have not harried the allied much in 1942 and 1943

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Marshall)

Post #: 9

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/23/2016 6:53:52 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline

In more than a year of PBEM game (date is Jan, 21 1943), I have lost:

2 submarines to air attack.
2 to DC
2 to mines
1 to sub vs sub action
9 to Manila Dec 7th attack

It is rare that a 250 kg bomb will kill a submarine. As long a you keep track of your damaged ships and take them out of harm after the 1st hit. So ASW missions will mostly "mission kill" a submarine, forcing him to return to port for repairs

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/23/2016 6:56:04 PM >

(in reply to Skygge)

Post #: 10

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/23/2016 6:54:49 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

I've lost a handful of subs to single bomb hits, or at least they've gotten killed by bombs in a single turn. Twice, this has happened to an SST. From 0 damage to sunk in a single turn.

More common, what will happen is a single hit occurs but causes enough damage that the sub is less able to evade subsequent attacks, and the sub gets hit again within a day or two while still under the air ASW umbrella and then sink. 2 hits usually causes enough system damage to make it dicey.

(in reply to Skygge)

Post #: 11

RE: ASW Air Helen II bomb hit - 3/23/2016 7:43:55 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I've lost a handful of subs to single bomb hits, or at least they've gotten killed by bombs in a single turn. Twice, this has happened to an SST. From 0 damage to sunk in a single turn.

More common, what will happen is a single hit occurs but causes enough damage that the sub is less able to evade subsequent attacks, and the sub gets hit again within a day or two while still under the air ASW umbrella and then sink. 2 hits usually causes enough system damage to make it dicey.

I've had two SSTs run onto rocks dropping troops in our game. Over 80 Float in both cases. In one 93 I think.

I also recently was treated to a 250kg bomb hit that caused only 11 Float damage, but 82 System. I said up-thread over 50 System is rare. It's not impossible.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 12