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PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 11:29:17 AM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		Can the PBEM file be password hacked?
I read a thread that it was done.
If so, the total concept of PBEM is dead.

Post #: 1
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:11:09 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Michael has the capability to recover lost PBEM passwords if he's convinced the person asking is legit. I knew how to do it at one time, but the only way I know it can be done is by a developer with the source code and there are only a few of us with that. If someone else has cracked the PBEM password, I'd be surprised as it was deliberately made difficult to crack, though anything can be cracked if you throw enough computing power at it and know what you're doing.

Even if I could remember how to do it, I would refer anyone asking to Michael.

Bill

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(in reply to Marshall)
Post #: 2
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:41:18 PM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3933645

look at this post

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Post #: 3
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:46:21 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Fortunately, I believe 99.9% percent of us have no interest in our opponents password. We are gamers and history buffs, not pols. LOL.

(in reply to Marshall)
Post #: 4
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:46:48 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		That is a completely different game. PacWar is a very old game.

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Post #: 5
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:49:18 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Bill, can I start a rumor?

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Post #: 6
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 1:55:25 PM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		not interested in hacking, I am not a computer nerd, but I just want to know if the files are indeed safe.

We spend many years in a PBEM game, so if it can be hacked, that would really upset the PBEM game for me

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 7
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 2:13:58 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

not interested in hacking, I am not a computer nerd, but I just want to know if the files are indeed safe.

We spend many years in a PBEM game, so if it can be hacked, that would really upset the PBEM game for me



A lot of us go farther than simply to trust the files are safe. We broadcast our setup, strategy and plans in an AAR that the opponent has complete access to check anytime they would want to without any hacking needed.

For those of us who have written AARS it's always a possibility that someone can have a look, or even that another player can inadvertently cross-polinate the AARs if reading both sides, but I believe we also trust the honor of our opponents and the community enough to discount our fears.

_____________________________

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Post #: 8
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 2:46:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Not worth a reply.

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Post #: 9
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 2:53:49 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		+1

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Post #: 10
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 3:30:43 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Can the PBEM file be password hacked?
I read a thread that it was done.
If so, the total concept of PBEM is dead.




Yes, almost any digital file can be hacked.
I have never heard of anyone doing so, but it is possible.
PBEM is very much alive.

Again, the game that the thread you are referring to
was written about 1992 and security was lacking a lot.
If I remember right, the original PacWar was not even
designed for PBEM, it was added on by customers.

(in reply to Marshall)
Post #: 11
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 5:04:39 PM   
oaltinyay

 

Posts: 593
Joined: 12/20/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Not worth a reply.

+1

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Post #: 12
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 6:17:47 PM   
Revthought


Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Can the PBEM file be password hacked?
I read a thread that it was done.
If so, the total concept of PBEM is dead.




If you are really worried about your opponent "hacking" your PBEM in a game as complex as this, and cheating in games against you, then I don't know what to say other than, why haven't AARs killed PBEM?

There are easier ways to cheat, and most people involved in long PBEMs of a game with this complexity, and I dare say just people in this community, do not want to cheat and will go out of their way to not learn anything about what their opponents are planning.

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Post #: 13
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 6:21:37 PM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		Not worth a reply?

The moral high ground to which you aspired can turn into a slippery slope

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Post #: 14
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 6:21:38 PM   
Revthought


Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline 		Also, in this case it appears someone brute forced a single character PBEM password. That's got nothing to do with the security of the password system, and everything to do with someone using a one character password.

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Post #: 15
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:19:39 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

not interested in hacking, I am not a computer nerd, but I just want to know if the files are indeed safe.

We spend many years in a PBEM game, so if it can be hacked, that would really upset the PBEM game for me



Why would your opponent who's also invested that time ruin it for himself by doing that? I've never run into anyone like that here. Don't play any Russians or Chinese if you're worried about it. I could see Anonymous hacking us and exposing us all.

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Post #: 16
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:21:40 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		There's no moral high ground, it's a game.

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Post #: 17
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:23:52 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Oh, and there's Wikileaks. I'm sure they would stop at nothing to expose our evil secrets.

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Post #: 18
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:26:29 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		The only reason I'd worry about my opponent hacking my password is if I were cheating and he caught me. Anyways my PW is in gornish, it's unbreakable.

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Post #: 19
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:28:24 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Gorns like .gifs

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Post #: 20
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:34:35 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		MILFs too.

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Post #: 21
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:44:27 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall
Can the PBEM file be password hacked?
I read a thread that it was done.
If so, the total concept of PBEM is dead.


Besides what the others have said, this game requires the opponents to establish a relationship based on trust, including the promise to be a reliable opponent over (not uncommmonly) several years of play, a general consensus on how to approach the houserule topic, and how to deal with defiencies in the game engine.

The potential hacking of minimalistic passwords surely is one of the lesser problems to consider when attempting to successfully engage in a PBEM.

_____________________________


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Post #: 22
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:48:33 PM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		don't play Russians or Chinese, Voting for DT?


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 23
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:55:49 PM   
Marshall


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline 		Yes yes trust and all that crap, but if i read a thread that states save games have been hacked, I rather have confirmation that the files are secured in later updates.
And the answer I got back was, it is possible. now the advice I got so far, is to not play Chinese and Russians and to trust my fellow gamers.
And people who ask this Question ask it because they hacked the game file themselves. (amazing feat considering my skill set), also if I hacked the file, I would have had the answer to the question by myself

But the background of my check has been satisfied, I think that I know how and what happened.



(in reply to Marshall)
Post #: 24
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 7:56:49 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

don't play Russians or Chinese, Voting for DT?




Il Duce?

That's politics, no more in this forum.

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Post #: 25
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 8:13:19 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Yes yes trust and all that crap, but if i read a thread that states save games have been hacked, I rather have confirmation that the files are secured in later updates.
And the answer I got back was, it is possible. now the advice I got so far, is to not play Chinese and Russians and to trust my fellow gamers.
And people who ask this Question ask it because they hacked the game file themselves. (amazing feat considering my skill set), also if I hacked the file, I would have had the answer to the question by myself

But the background of my check has been satisfied, I think that I know how and what happened.

• It was pointed out to you that the thread about the game file hacked which you linked to was a different game.
• If someone works at it enough and has enough skills/knowledge, any file like that can be "hacked" by guessing the password eventually. That does not make the concept of PBM "dead" any more than burglars make the concept of houses dead.
• You missed the discussion about a player, not a regular on this forum, who (apparently) hacked the game using development tools and changed a bunch of settings on his side. "Roy" (IIRC) ran an AAR in a forum (I think in Germany but don't recall for sure) where as the Allies he very methodically started totally kicking his opponent's butt early on, counter-invading and such with forces that would have been crushed had he not cheated. People figured out "no way!" and eventually he admitted what he did. Even that did not make the concept of PBM "dead".
• There are a number of professional software developers on the forum who play PBM. Undoubtedly they have the skills and could, if they wished, do the same thing that "Roy" did, but they don't.
• "Trust and all that crap" is all that you have ever had, you just didn't understand that.

My advice is stop worrying and have fun!


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Post #: 26
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 8:18:10 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Besides using gornish passwords, I always start my secret messages with something in an Earthling language. Let's see who here cracks it first.

9673 975362


< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/13/2016 8:19:26 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 8:43:14 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

MILFs too.


"Men I like to fight" - like Kirk?


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AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

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Post #: 28
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 8:54:30 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

MILFs too.


"Men I like to fight" - like Kirk?



Yeah, that's it.

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Post #: 29
RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 9:27:43 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Besides using gornish passwords, I always start my secret messages with something in an Earthling language. Let's see who here cracks it first.

9673 975362



Time!

First clue: It's just a straight substitution and so the message could only use 10 letters (if there was a message).
Pretend the numerals are letters.

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Post #: 30
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