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Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 5:48:14 PM   
timms

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/10/2015
Status: offline 		Hi All,

In my current game I'm trying to defend Leningrad and my opponent is bombing the port, nothing unusual there. My problem is that not a single plane from the VVS has responded to the bombing runs, and just lets them go do their thing. I know russian morale is low, but I really expected at least some semblance of an effort. There is one vvs, one iad, and two pvo airbases up there, and plenty of planes and full supplies/fuel etc. The only thing I can think of is air doctrine, but the effects of changing the numbers aren't that clear to me. Currently have it set at 10% required to fly, 300 for ground support/attack/airfield attack/city attack, 100 for interdiction, 150 for fighter intercept, ground support on and recon escort off. Any idea why my pilots are taking vacation?
Post #: 1
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 6:48:41 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		For me the PVO ABs are working fine. Fill them with better planes and rotate every turn the low morale groups for fresh ones. Once in not so distant past one Yak group got 94 kills in single turn.
Also assigning AA units in the contested port helps.

(in reply to timms)
Post #: 2
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:25:08 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Are you using 8.08 Bobo?

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Post #: 3
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:30:21 PM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

Are you using 8.08 Bobo?


Yes, the most recent.

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RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:39:20 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		oh, I've been having the same problem.
I don't think I'm doing anything different to normal, but I get hardly any intercepts and when they do intercept they get shot down with nothing to show for it
I've got 4 or 5 PVO AA regiments in Osinovets too and they're doing virtually nothing.

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Post #: 5
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:47:23 PM   
Manstein63


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Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline 		Have you considered that your opponents might be bombing at night rather than daylight bombing
Manstein63

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Post #: 6
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:49:52 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		ah, interesting
That could be it, thanks.

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Post #: 7
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 7:55:25 PM   
timms

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/10/2015
Status: offline 		Let's hope that the case, I'm betting Leningrad on it

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Post #: 8
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/18/2016 11:00:27 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timms

Hi All,

In my current game I'm trying to defend Leningrad and my opponent is bombing the port, nothing unusual there. My problem is that not a single plane from the VVS has responded to the bombing runs, and just lets them go do their thing. I know russian morale is low, but I really expected at least some semblance of an effort. There is one vvs, one iad, and two pvo airbases up there, and plenty of planes and full supplies/fuel etc. The only thing I can think of is air doctrine, but the effects of changing the numbers aren't that clear to me. Currently have it set at 10% required to fly, 300 for ground support/attack/airfield attack/city attack, 100 for interdiction, 150 for fighter intercept, ground support on and recon escort off. Any idea why my pilots are taking vacation?


taking into account all the other responses, couple of further points. First you are telling the routine not to fly any missions unless you have 50% more planes than it thinks you need (intercept at 150). I'd drop it to 100,

Second don't ignore morale. If you run the combat routine relatively slowly you'll see a lot of 'mission x turned back' in effect low morale squadrons won't actually go into combat. For a critical sector like this make sure you have no fighter squadrons under 50 (ideally more). It takes a lot of fiddling but its essential - be prepared to rotate in/out almost every squadron each turn.

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Post #: 9
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/19/2016 5:21:25 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		look at your airforce commander. make sure he has a very high initiative rating. Also set your intercept levels lower. Make sure there are multiple units nearby - key question is are the Germans bombing by day or night and are your fighters set for night intercept ? also remember you can build a ton of anti aircraft brigades in the port itself to help you. Last but not least bring up your own air groups and hit his airfields preemptively preferably at night to reduce losses.

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Post #: 10
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/19/2016 5:28:13 AM   
Hermann

 

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Status: offline 		PS. I'm bombing at night, but i'm also hitting your airbases beforehand and bombing units in the area to draw off your fighters first.

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Post #: 11
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/19/2016 5:29:07 AM   
Hermann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

For me the PVO ABs are working fine. Fill them with better planes and rotate every turn the low morale groups for fresh ones. Once in not so distant past one Yak group got 94 kills in single turn.
Also assigning AA units in the contested port helps.


Still ticked off about that =)

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Post #: 12
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/19/2016 6:56:29 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
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From: Poland
Status: offline 		loki100, percent to intercept must be high. Low means it will send less planes, with every step above 25, 50 and 75 percent of calculated number being harder to achieve. Intercept 200 means it will try to send the same number of planes as incoming planes. Possibly you need even more to have a lot of fighters unengaged with enemy escort to hit bombers. Low intercept is good for Germans with low number of planes and good quality, so that they don't use up their fighter cover in first few strikes.
Also, air base directly in target hex has easier to intercept. So put them in Osinovets directly if you want to protect the port.

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Post #: 13
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/20/2016 8:24:53 AM   
Hermann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ah, interesting
That could be it, thanks.



Ya I was bombing at night =)


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Post #: 14
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/20/2016 1:21:41 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Lol. Oh well my stupidity only cost me Leningrad, lucky it wasn't anywhere important

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RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/20/2016 10:01:15 PM   
No idea

 

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Joined: 6/24/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Have you considered that your opponents might be bombing at night rather than daylight bombing
Manstein63


If that is the case the damageshould be very light.

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Post #: 16
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/21/2016 3:36:10 AM   
timms

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/10/2015
Status: offline 		End result was that the port was destroyed, Leningrad is isolated. The timely advice cost Hermann a lot of his bombers though

Just a warning though Hermann since I'm not sure if you noticed yet. You've taught me a dangerous tactic, I'm set up in near Sevastopol to do long range strategic bombing now that I know how effective it is. Thought that it's only fair to warn ya

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Post #: 17
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/21/2016 10:28:38 AM   
Manstein63


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Joined: 6/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Have you considered that your opponents might be bombing at night rather than daylight bombing
Manstein63


If that is the case the damageshould be very light.



Coventry 1940,
Maybe not at the same level as Hamburg or Dresden but still heavy enough.

_____________________________

'There is not, nor aught there be, nothing so exalted on the face of god's great earth, as that prince of foods. THE MUFFIN!!!'

Frank Zappa (Muffin Man)

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Post #: 18
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/21/2016 11:21:17 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Bombing ports represent bombing ships going in and out of the port along the entire route. It's very hard to bomb water & coast out of existence. There are various ways to unload ships, even if there is some rubble and craters in the port. Most ships even have their own cranes to unload cargo, so they just need to get close to the shore somewhere. We're not talking about modern style ports with things like LNG terminals. Examples you mention (and night bombing in general) worked well for terror raids against large area targets in that era. They wouldn't work well against shipping (because that's what IMHO port bombing represents), unless you have air-to-surface radar and air-borne homing torpedes. I think these were not used in the East 1941-1945.

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Post #: 19
RE: Defending against Bombers - 3/21/2016 12:15:44 PM   
Manstein63


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Joined: 6/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Bombing ports represent bombing ships going in and out of the port along the entire route. It's very hard to bomb water & coast out of existence. There are various ways to unload ships, even if there is some rubble and craters in the port. Most ships even have their own cranes to unload cargo, so they just need to get close to the shore somewhere. We're not talking about modern style ports with things like LNG terminals. Examples you mention (and night bombing in general) worked well for terror raids against large area targets in that era. They wouldn't work well against shipping (because that's what IMHO port bombing represents), unless you have air-to-surface radar and air-borne homing torpedes. I think these were not used in the East 1941-1945.



Agree 100% with what you are saying also I doubt that the supply boats were anything larger than barges so would it be very difficult to sink them which is probably why it never happened in RL. However the game assumes that there are port facilities there and the area in question would have good reconnaissance so it wouldn't be as difficult to hit as say Liverpool from bases in Northern France & you could put down significant tonnage as your airfields wouldn't be too far from the target & you could mount repeated raids especially if as in this case they were going in unopposed., (which I think is silly but unfortunately its part of the game system)

_____________________________

'There is not, nor aught there be, nothing so exalted on the face of god's great earth, as that prince of foods. THE MUFFIN!!!'

Frank Zappa (Muffin Man)

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Post #: 20
RE: Defending against Bombers - 4/15/2016 8:10:02 PM   
RKhan


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From: My Secret Bunker
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ah, interesting
That could be it, thanks.



Ya I was bombing at night =)




It should hardly be a secret that bombing is going on at night. I think people would notice.

Perhaps the battle screen can be updated to annotate each air group in a battle with N if it is flying at night.


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RKhan

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Post #: 21
RE: Defending against Bombers - 4/16/2016 2:08:53 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
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Status: offline 		Ya the Leningrad fight was rough on me =(

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Post #: 22
RE: Defending against Bombers - 4/17/2016 7:30:38 PM   
Von Weber


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Status: offline 		How much damage should be done to port to stop coming supply to it 51% or it depends on port si

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Post #: 23
RE: Defending against Bombers - 4/17/2016 7:51:45 PM   
Hermann

 

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Status: offline 		100% damage - the key ports are Odessa and Leningrad - Sevastapol is nearly impossible to bomb down cus theres no available air. if you bomb the port to 100% damage the unit in it surrenders. anything less the unit routs and escapes. one of the key things is replacements - a port at 100% damage the units cant replace manpower once local pools are exhausted and breaks down faster

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Post #: 24
RE: Defending against Bombers - 4/17/2016 8:15:41 PM   
Von Weber


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Status: offline 		Thanx Hermann! Usefull info

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WPO/Field of Glory-2/TOAW

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