Why so much supply in Madras?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Why so much supply in Madras?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Why so much supply in Madras?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 12:54:51 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

Started this AI game last month - with latest official patch at the start. Have since patched to latest beta but supply still gets pulled from all directions into Madras.

I dump supply in Bombay, Cochin & Calcutta. Have never delivered any supply to Madras yet it has over 500,000 tons compared to under 100k in the places I've been sending supply. I raised the supply requirements in Cochin & Calcutta to the max but it only helped a little. 8k in Bombay, 80k in Cochin, 40k in Calcutta, 550k in Madras after changing the priority.

No HQs in Madras. I do have a fair amount of LCUs there. I sent them there to rest because that's where the supply is. :)

Have a similar issue in OZ. Most excess supply seems to end up in Sydney - even after I shut off the Heavy Industry - but this really isn't a big problem.

When I was playing AE 18 months ago, supply tended to stay put unless it was needed. Which was a nice improvement over the original WitP. This isn't a game breaker in an AI game but if I was playing against a human this would be a very dangerous situation.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 4/12/2011 1:06:16 AM >

_____________________________

Post #: 1

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 1:29:33 AM

vonTirpitz

Posts: 511
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Wilmington, NC
Status: offline

mjk,

You should reduce all your draw supply settings at all bases to the bare minimum. (Setting one or more to the maximum setting with cause the game system to try and draw all supplies to the base(s) and really throws the supply system into a tailspin).

Once all of your bases are set back to the minimum supply then you should see things stabilize in the next few turns as the game sorts things out.

Note: If you are trying to get to the 10k or 20k level for replacements, etc. then you should only set your draw supply to 1/3 of what you are trying to achieve (i.e. setting base draw at 4000 will tell the system that you want to have 12000 supplies at the base). Once you have finished what you are trying to do then I would suggest resetting the base back to minimum again unless you need to keep the supply level there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

I raised the supply requirements in Cochin & Calcutta to the max but it only helped a little.

_____________________________

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 2

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 1:46:13 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonTirpitz

mjk,

You should reduce all your draw supply settings at all bases to the bare minimum. (Setting one or more to the maximum setting with cause the game system to try and draw all supplies to the base(s) and really throws the supply system into a tailspin).

Once all of your bases are set back to the minimum supply then you should see things stabilize in the next few turns as the game sorts things out.

Note: If you are trying to get to the 10k or 20k level for replacements, etc. then you should only set your draw supply to 1/3 of what you are trying to achieve (i.e. setting base draw at 4000 will tell the system that you want to have 12000 supplies at the base). Once you have finished what you are trying to do then I would suggest resetting the base back to minimum again unless you need to keep the supply level there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

I raised the supply requirements in Cochin & Calcutta to the max but it only helped a little.

I'll put everything on the map at minimum and see if it helps. Only bumped them up in Cochin & Calcutta in an attempt to jumpstart the supply AI. :)

Thank you for your help.

_____________________________

(in reply to vonTirpitz)

Post #: 3

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 2:13:18 AM

vonTirpitz

Posts: 511
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Wilmington, NC
Status: offline

I know Michael has also worked with the resource/oil system in the betas. If you keep seeing supplies stockpiling up at Madras you should post a save in the tech forum so he can see what is happening.

_____________________________

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 4

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 2:33:07 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

Supply and fuel will also tend to go to the best developed infrastructure. If Madras is built up to a much greater degree than your other big bases, that will draw in supply.

Other factors are the number of units present plus whether you have industry repairing, all of which will increase the supply requirement.

Alfred

(in reply to vonTirpitz)

Post #: 5

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 4:45:30 AM

Patbgaming

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

I may not be correct but IIRC ( based on my limited personal experience ) the biggest port gets the bulk of the supply in India. Then all else get supply based on your settings and their infrastructure. This may not be exactly correct but from my experience that was how it seemed to work.

_____________________________

I can show you and I can teach you but I just can't learn for you. - Nameless NCO US Army

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 6

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 5:02:01 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Patbgaming

I may not be correct but IIRC ( based on my limited personal experience ) the biggest port gets the bulk of the supply in India. Then all else get supply based on your settings and their infrastructure. This may not be exactly correct but from my experience that was how it seemed to work.

This seems to be the only thing that counts. The size of the port/base.

I shut off all repair, building and production in Madras. Turned off all supply requests on the entire map. Moved every unit out of Madras except enough to meet the garrison requirements. And ran 8 quick turns.

Madras now has 640k supply vs. 560k the week before. It was the biggest base in India (7 port/6 airfield) although it was tied with Bombay after running the 8 turns. Eventually, if I stop all building in Madras, Bombay will be bigger. It will be interesting to see if the supply moves back to Bombay.

I don't know if this is WAD but it sure makes it hard to stockpile supply/fuel where I want - which is Cochin not Madras.

_____________________________

(in reply to Patbgaming)

Post #: 7

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 5:17:43 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonTirpitz

I know Michael has also worked with the resource/oil system in the betas. If you keep seeing supplies stockpiling up at Madras you should post a save in the tech forum so he can see what is happening.

Posted a save in the Beta thread in case it's a bug.

Thanks again.

_____________________________

(in reply to vonTirpitz)

Post #: 8

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 10:36:59 AM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

Excess is being directed to coastal ports, presumely for pickup/transport purposes.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 9

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/12/2011 2:47:25 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Excess is being directed to coastal ports, presumely for pickup/transport purposes.

The problem is there are limited ways to tell it that you want to stockpile at a slightly smaller port+airbase combo. It will just move it all back. I moved 100,000 fuel and 200,000 supply to Chittagong by ship and in two turns it was mostly back in Madras. It can be frustrating.

_____________________________

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 10

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/13/2011 7:56:23 AM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428
Eventually, if I stop all building in Madras, Bombay will be bigger. It will be interesting to see if the supply moves back to Bombay.

Yep, once Bombay became the largest port, 500k plus of supply and fuel moved backwards to Bombay.

So moving supply around on the same land mass is pointless. It seems I have to better plan port building and intentionally underdevelop in order to get the supply to go where it's wanted.

At least now I know there's a method to the madness.

_____________________________

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 11

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 4/14/2011 10:14:31 PM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline

From Michael in the Beta thread:

quote:

The next build will expand the stockpiling option to bases. The code had hooks for this (added in last patch) but I hadn't activated it.
You will be able to stockpile supply, fuel, resource and oil at bases. This means that bases will retain these and not allow other bases to access them.
Note that this applies only to supply&resource movement between bases, normal LCU and industry access is not affected.

Freakin' Awesome.

_____________________________

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 12

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 12:24:10 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Just a small observation from my game,if anyone is interested.

DaBigBabes-C,December 31,1941.

The biggest ports in India (port+airfield) are:

Bombay - 10
Calcutta, Madras - 9
Karachi - 8

The whole of India has a total of 212,000 supplies.

I haven't upped the supply required dial at any base in India

This is how supply is distributed by the game:

Bombay - 100,000 supplies (needs 700)
Calcutta - 60,000 supplies (needs 3000, produces 1500 supplies each turn)
Madras - 5,300 supplies (needs 1100)
Karachi - 2,900 supplies (need 900)

I was actually bemoaning any lack of supply buildup below Calcutta , when I stumbled upon Bombay's supply stash. Bombay has been a total backwater action-wise this early in the campaign and I didn't expect it would accumulate half of India's supply by the year's end. Does that mean the biggest port always gets an unproportinal amount of supply? It would seem that, based on port sizes, Karachi or Madras should have at least hold 10,000 supplies each.

(in reply to mjk428)

Post #: 13

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 1:54:23 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Just a small observation from my game,if anyone is interested.

DaBigBabes-C,December 31,1941.

The biggest ports in India (port+airfield) are:

Bombay - 10
Calcutta, Madras - 9
Karachi - 8

The whole of India has a total of 212,000 supplies.

I haven't upped the supply required dial at any base in India

This is how supply is distributed by the game:

Bombay - 100,000 supplies (needs 700)
Calcutta - 60,000 supplies (needs 3000, produces 1500 supplies each turn)
Madras - 5,300 supplies (needs 1100)
Karachi - 2,900 supplies (need 900)

I was actually bemoaning any lack of supply buildup below Calcutta , when I stumbled upon Bombay's supply stash. Bombay has been a total backwater action-wise this early in the campaign and I didn't expect it would accumulate half of India's supply by the year's end. Does that mean the biggest port always gets an unproportinal amount of supply? It would seem that, based on port sizes, Karachi or Madras should have at least hold 10,000 supplies each.

Alfred discussed this recently - can't remember the thread but it may have been in the tech forum. The bottom line is that supply goes to where the demand is, and once that is satisfied (presumably 3X the minimum) the remainder goes to large bases for storage (less wastage than at small bases). You need to use the supply draw buttons and stockpiling judiciously to move things forward until you can build the base sizes closer to the front.
Along with that, concentrations of troops increase the demand and therefore the supply draw.

EDIT: PS - IIRC it was also mentioned that a National HQ (and maybe Command HQs too) has its own supply draw effect of 50,000. It certainly worked when I moved Canada Command to Prince Rupert.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 2/29/2016 1:56:17 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 14

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 2:09:05 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Guys, don't make this tougher than it is. There ain't no bugs here.

1. Read Michael and Alfred's posts.
2. You can create supply demand in any base by changing "Supplies Required to a larger number" just be sure you have enough supply in theatre to do that. (Someone references 200K supply in all of India ... that is a disaster. 200K supply in the HI is called "implosion".)*
3. You can click 'stockpile" on any resource type which will also cause a base to demand some.

If this doesn't work it is because you don't have it.

More details by searching the forum. This has been gone through with a micro-comb years ago ...

* IMPORTANT NOTE: when you have a LOT less of a resource type, like supply, than what is needed, your control of it essentially vanishes. Stop trying. Think of it this way: every unit is starving. YOu send an order that says only feed this division. The others division supply sergeants though are making back deals to get food for their troops. You can't regain command and control over this until you have enough supply.
So, when you have only 200K supply or resources or fuel or ... in the HI, your economy just about completely shuts down and you can't stop that until you get things fixed.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 2/29/2016 2:15:18 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 15

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 2:17:03 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Interesting thing about storage.

Does that mean the situation will reverse if I develop Calcutta to level 11 and Bombay stays at level 10? It is probably easier to develop Calcutta then to ship these Bombay supplies via ship or move them via supply draw buttons.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 16

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 2:19:16 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Guys, don't make this tougher than it is. There ain't no bugs here.

And this was a 5-year-old zombie thread. Supply works fine. A combo of spinners and stockpile switches and you're good.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 17

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 2:30:12 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

My save game was from August 2015.

I don't want to manipulate supply draw. Why?

Consider manipulating supply draw at Chittagong and upping it there. Between Calcutta and Chittagong there is an LI desert. You can wait months to build up supply stock these way in Chittagong, plus you don't how how far reaching is this pull towards Chittagong. You are probably causing famine in the whole modern-day Bangladesh this way.

Basically, I was running India economy with no supply manipulation and on December 31,1941 I have this unexplained supply glut at Bombay. If it just the case of the biggest port taking all supply , then it is fine, because I can build Calcutta to level 11 (port+airbase). It just would be nice to know if I am on the right course.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 2/29/2016 2:31:01 PM >

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 18

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 2:37:39 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

My save game was from August 2015.

I don't want to manipulate supply draw. Why?

Consider manipulating supply draw at Chittagong and upping it there. Between Calcutta and Chittagong there is an LI desert. You can wait months to build up supply stock these way in Chittagong, plus you don't how how far reaching is this pull towards Chittagong. You are probably causing famine in the whole modern-day Bangladesh this way.

Basically, I was running India economy with no supply manipulation and on December 31,1941 I have this unexplained supply glut at Bombay. If it just the case of the biggest port taking all supply , then it is fine, because I can build Calcutta to level 11 (port+airbase). It just would be nice to know if I am on the right course.

It evens out. I've dumped more than a million supply in Karachi in the past three months in my game. Today it has about 50,000, just where I set the spinners. Bombay has 36.000 despite having at least a million shipped there in the past six months. Once the big convoys start dumping in Aden and CT you'll have millions of supply and fuel to dispose of somewhere.

Chittagong is harder since Ledo can suck up a lot of east-bound supply from Calcutta if it's a huge operating air base. Without in-bound shipments to Chittagong it's hard to keep over, maybe, 30--40,000. This if course varies depending on what you hold to the south. But shipping to Chittagong from Calcutta is easy, fast, and pretty safe. A little ASW, use xAKLs, and set-and-forget. Stockpile at Chittagong and you can build it to anything you need for a major campaign.

The major piece of the puzzle is to fill the open end of the snake. Keep shoving supply in and the pipe fills up. In 1941 you can't do that yet. You will later.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/29/2016 2:40:19 PM >

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 19

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 3:44:30 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Thanks, Bullwinkle.

I forgot about one thing - both Calcutta and Bombay hold static Command HQs, pulling at least 20,000 supplies towards both ports. That is why Bombay went into storage overkill mode - biggest port plus a command HQ. I will ship all this supply away and put an end to this behind-the-lines food orgy.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 20

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 5:02:13 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Thanks, Bullwinkle.

I forgot about one thing - both Calcutta and Bombay hold static Command HQs, pulling at least 20,000 supplies towards both ports. That is why Bombay went into storage overkill mode - biggest port plus a command HQ. I will ship all this supply away and put an end to this behind-the-lines food orgy.

As I said it's also a function of your era. "A lot" of supply in 1943 starts at 100,000. 20-30k is who-cares-land. I leave a bunch at Bombay, Karachi, and Calcutta so they can R&R LCUs, especially in the case of Karachi those I bought back from the dead. But as time and the war moves forward bases that were linchpins in early 1942 become total backwaters.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 21

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 2/29/2016 7:48:46 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
The biggest ports in India (port+airfield) are:

Bombay - 10
Calcutta, Madras - 9
Karachi - 8
...

Just a reminder that it's not (port+airfield) that matters, but largest port size. Airfield size only plays a role as a tie breaker between the largest ports

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 22

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/1/2016 3:03:58 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Guys, don't make this tougher than it is. There ain't no bugs here.

And this was a 5-year-old zombie thread. Supply works fine. A combo of spinners and stockpile switches and you're good.

Exactly ... plus as you stated: you gotta be pumping supply in and you gotta have enough to work with.

200K supply for all of India as the allies? That's starvation unless you have moved a LOT of troops out.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 23

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/1/2016 9:42:10 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
The biggest ports in India (port+airfield) are:

Bombay - 10
Calcutta, Madras - 9
Karachi - 8
...

Just a reminder that it's not (port+airfield) that matters, but largest port size. Airfield size only plays a role as a tie breaker between the largest ports

I hope your theory is right, because Calcutta maxes out at port level 6, so it won't beat Bombay on port size alone. Time will tell.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 24

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/1/2016 11:36:57 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Another factor overlooked here is what bombers does one have at an AF?? If you station your 2e and 4e bombers at a base, it will draw extra. The base size and Command HQ present affect it as others have noted.

_____________________________

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 25

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/2/2016 5:12:26 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Yes, but their supply needs are lumped into the base supply requirements. That is why in my game at Dec 31, 1941 Delhi has 10,000 supplies because it hosts a dozen of B-17s there.

Actually, if you want to move supply to an inland base, have no spare Command HQ to attract supply and do not want to mess with supply dials, you can just park some 4Es in the base, and porters and mules will happily bring whatever wares you need there.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 26

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/15/2016 3:54:27 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

One more thing.

If Bombay has port 6 and most of India's supplies, Calcutta has port 5 and I use no supply demand/stockpiling whatsoever in India, and the supplies are being shipped from Bombay to Calcutta by ships, does that mean that once the supplies are dumped in Calcutta, they will afterwards slowly migrate by land to Bombay again? Because if the code pushes supplies to the biggest port, then these shipped supplies should go back to Bombay from Calcutta, unless stockpiling is enabled in Calcutta. Am I right?

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 27

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/15/2016 6:19:07 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

One more thing.

If Bombay has port 6 and most of India's supplies, Calcutta has port 5 and I use no supply demand/stockpiling whatsoever in India, and the supplies are being shipped from Bombay to Calcutta by ships, does that mean that once the supplies are dumped in Calcutta, they will afterwards slowly migrate by land to Bombay again? Because if the code pushes supplies to the biggest port, then these shipped supplies should go back to Bombay from Calcutta, unless stockpiling is enabled in Calcutta. Am I right?

Yes, Yaab. With no other factor affecting the demand for and flow of supplies, excess supplies will drift back to Bombay. It is a waste of shipping and fuel to ship them to Calcutta, unless you are stockpiling them there for near term use. Under normal conditions, as supply is needed in and around Calcutta, it will flow from the large pile at Bombay.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 28

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/15/2016 6:28:37 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Good to know. Thanks!

< Message edited by Yaab -- 3/15/2016 6:29:23 PM >

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 29

RE: Why so much supply in Madras? - 3/19/2016 8:08:50 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

One more thing.

It seems the Allied off-map area of Cristobal and Balboa is treated by the code as one nation. Thus Cristobal, which is blessed with a bigger port, hijacks all free supply and fuel from Balboa. Thus Balboa cannot build any stock of supply and fuel. So if you think about hauling the free stuff from this region to the map, use Cristobal port.

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 30