Too much information from passive sonar?

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Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:17:20 PM

neno

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Joined: 7/30/2014
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In Command, the submarine's passive sonar is able to determine to which side a contact belongs to. This shouldn't be possible by sonar alone, unless it's a ship that is unique to one country (like US carriers).

you can see in the save, that the sub identified both ships and determined their side. Both ships are identical, one neutral, one hostile.

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:20:03 PM

neno

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Screenshot:

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:23:45 PM

mikmykWS

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Joined: 3/22/2005
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Command is a sim/game so needs to be able to handle some of the reasoning human crews do.

I wish all we had to do was detect

Mike

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:35:37 PM

neno

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Command is a sim/game so needs to be able to handle some of the reasoning human crews do.

I wish all we had to do was detect

Mike

Fair enough, I guess.

If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest to leave the current detection system for warships only, but make non-visual detection unable to identify the side for civilian ships. The reasoning behind this is that the subs have warships acoustic signatures in their databases, but not of the civilian ships.

(in reply to mikmykWS)

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:44:00 PM

jimcarravall

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Command is a sim/game so needs to be able to handle some of the reasoning human crews do.

I wish all we had to do was detect

Mike

As interested as I am in how the technicians do their job, if I wanted to do that work, I'd have looked for a game that emulated how to use a weapon system instead of one that allowed me to command it.

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jim

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:48:28 PM

ComDev

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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What version of the sim are you using?

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 2:50:45 PM

neno

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Joined: 7/30/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

What version of the sim are you using?

1.11 RC2 B803

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/20/2016 5:30:26 PM

Beckles

Posts: 128
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: neno

If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest to leave the current detection system for warships only, but make non-visual detection unable to identify the side for civilian ships. The reasoning behind this is that the subs have warships acoustic signatures in their databases, but not of the civilian ships.

I'm not sure why you believe that they wouldn't have signatures of non-combatants. I believe the civilian ships are truly generic, I agree with your basic premise that it seems like it would be difficult to discern a Russian 150,000 DWT dry bulk carrier from a Chinese one, but it actually may not be as difficult as you think because chances are even though the game models them as the same generic class, in actual practice they would be different, in particular they would have differences in their propulsion system (different engines and different propellers in particular) that would create different passive noise signatures. I don't disagree that it still seems like it would be much more difficult for a sonar operator to distinguish the two in such a situation, but I do disagree with your reasoning to some extent and don't think it's as difficult as you believe it is.

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RE: Too much information from passive sonar? - 3/21/2016 12:45:31 AM

jimcarravall

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: neno

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Command is a sim/game so needs to be able to handle some of the reasoning human crews do.

I wish all we had to do was detect

Mike

Fair enough, I guess.

If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest to leave the current detection system for warships only, but make non-visual detection unable to identify the side for civilian ships. The reasoning behind this is that the subs have warships acoustic signatures in their databases, but not of the civilian ships.

I can purchase a subscription to a commercial web site and learn about the country of origin, location, and documented routing for any commercial ship tracked by satellite, GPS repeaters, and / or land based radio broadcast triangulation techniques.

I think most military detection / tracking systems, using supplementation from acoustic signature analysis, image analysis, and a basic radio signal intelligence can build on that to create a pretty accurate picture of eligible targets in a combat zone.

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Take care,

jim

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