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Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 3:39:05 PM   
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RayYoung
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Hi Guys.

I have been playing an AI game as Allies.

Training pilots has been a full time activity and I am not sure if I am correct.

The restricted units on the West Coast are my training units. I have been attempting to go for more Experience for the fighter groups so I have been training both Naval Attack and Ground Bombing in order to round out the experience levels.

Am I wasting training time on this as opposed to just training them exclusively on Escort?

I do similar cross training for bombers using ASW, RECON, NAVAL SEARCH etc.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 3:48:30 PM   
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AW1Steve
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Cross training is not a bad thing , just try to concentrate on a skill you might use them at (yes , I know that I state the obvious, it's common sense). I strongly recommend you concentrate 1st on three experience levels for fighters. General to at least 50 , Air to AT LEAST 70 , and Defensive to also 70. After you've done general, then used the escort setting , I find that Sweep helps round out the unit.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 3:50:52 PM   
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crsutton
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No, low naval is a good quality for fighter pilots. When you get the next generation of Allied fighters you will see that they can carry some pretty nasty bombs. Some carry more weight than SBDs. I don't use them for low ground that much but it is not a bad skill either. I would add bombing skills over strafing skills as strafing is not too powerful. Train on.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 4:00:37 PM   
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geofflambert
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Yes, you are. In some instances it makes sense to use general training to develop fighter pilots but don't train them to do things they won't be doing. As the Japanese, I sometimes train Oscar pilots to do Naval attack, as a version of Oscars arrive which are awesome fighter-bombers. But on the whole not. With some non-fighter aircraft escort can be trained (some float planes) but there are few and perhaps none on the allied side. If you have a large surplus of one type, let's say Whiraways, you could use those for general training and graduate those pilots to training fighter squadrons. You are on the right track wanting to increase overall experience, and there are other ways to do it. Low ground attack and regular ground attack, both involving strafing, will take you a ways toward that objective, but usually using fighters in that fashion is unwise unless you have total air superiority. Another way to gain experience is to have them patrol and train, or just patrol, in a behind the front lines location like Pearl. You do need to keep CAP there and those pilots will gain experience while doing it. All types of aircrews gain experience when given missions regardless of whether they encounter the enemy or not.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 4:03:14 PM   
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AW1Steve
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No, low naval is a good quality for fighter pilots. When you get the next generation of Allied fighters you will see that they can carry some pretty nasty bombs. Some carry more weight than SBDs. I don't use them for low ground that much but it is not a bad skill either. I would add bombing skills over strafing skills as strafing is not too powerful. Train on.


Of course , like everything in life there are exceptions. If playing as Japan , PT boats can be tough to destroy. Fighters attacking at 100' with good strafing skills can do a good job. And playing as the allies P-39's and P-400's are not bad strafers. I have found they do a pretty good job on barges.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 4:06:23 PM   
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obvert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Cross training is not a bad thing , just try to concentrate on a skill you might use them at (yes , I know that I state the obvious, it's common sense). I strongly recommend you concentrate 1st on three experience levels for fighters. General to at least 50 , Air to AT LEAST 70 , and Defensive to also 70. After you've done general, then used the escort setting , I find that Sweep helps round out the unit.


It's a lo quicker to train 100%at 0 hex range in sweep/escortat 10k (I use sweeps to add less clicks) and then 100% sweep at 100ft to train defensive skill and experience. You can try low ground or low naval but my experience shows that this is not as quick as training 100ft sweep for defensive and exp.

EDIT:

PS - I know some use general training, but it takes much longer to get defensive skills up to where I would want them, around 70.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/22/2016 10:12:01 AM >


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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/21/2016 4:10:07 PM   
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geofflambert
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Strafing is automatic, you don't train to it. Low ground attack includes bombs and strafing. Medium alt attacks also involve bombs and strafing, I forget what the max alt is for that, but it can make sense for fighter crews, even ones beginning with Airocobras, because of the cannon. The problem is that using them in that way against targets with a lot of flak makes it prohibitively expensive. Fighter pilots are at the top of the pyramid and need to be used carefully if at all in non escort, CAP or sweep missions. Anyways if you want to increase overall experience those are valid ways to do it because the circumstance may appear where you use those skills to great effect. So, for instance, if you only expect to encounter merchant shipping, long range fighter bombers (like Oscars) makes sense because they will encounter little flak.

edit: General training will increase the skills in those areas as well as others, most importantly perhaps, defense. If you have a surplus of any plane type, you can use them to do general training, you just need to be careful to transfer those guys to fighter squadrons, after which they will be labeled fighter crews. The only other thing I would use General Training is for carrier crews, both DBs and TBDs. They will nonetheless need to train in such things as search, ASW, and possibly recon up to 70 along with naval attack w/ torps and also w/bombs.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/21/2016 4:21:01 PM >


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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 12:52:59 AM   
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rustysi
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Keep in mind that in order to get much above 50 experience you'll need to do something other than train. I like to get pilots that have trained to 50 experience and ~70 in their necessary skills into low combat areas so that their experience will rise with 'real' missions. Yes, fighter pilots will gain experience flying CAP just not that much. Nothing weeds the boys from the men like a good 'furball'.

Another way if you can't get them to a 'low' combat area is to just put some lower experienced pilots into an experienced unit and hope they live long enough to get their experience up. Just like IRL.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 1:58:18 AM   
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RayYoung
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Thanks all. As usual, I come away from this forum with a deeper appreciation for not only the game but the cadre of those here who really know it.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 3:22:53 AM   
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geofflambert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RayYoung

Thanks all. As usual, I come away from this forum with a deeper appreciation for not only the game but the cadre of those here who really know it.


I just checked and the ones who really know it didn't post on this thread.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 3:24:25 AM   
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rustysi
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: RayYoung

Thanks all. As usual, I come away from this forum with a deeper appreciation for not only the game but the cadre of those here who really know it.


I just checked and the ones who really know it didn't post on this thread.





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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 3:35:46 AM   
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geofflambert
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I see that my legend continues.

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 9:35:26 PM   
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rustysi
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Ray, I hope you see this as there's one thing I want to add. When it comes to pilots their skill sets are the most important thing in air ops. Experience is really only considered in the area of op losses, i.e., will a damaged plane make it back to base. Do they get lost due to weather and fly off to the nether regions, etc.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/22/2016 11:37:33 PM   
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obvert
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Ray, I hope you see this as there's one thing I want to add. When it comes to pilots their skill sets are the most important thing in air ops. Experience is really only considered in the area of op losses, i.e., will a damaged plane make it back to base. Do they get lost due to weather and fly off to the nether regions, etc.


Not exactly. It also helps with strike resilience. High experience pilots will bomb at preferable altitudes and have a better chance to bust through in a damaged plane to follow through an attack. They also survive A to A combat better than pilots without experience, for whatever reason.

I'll be doing some EXP variable tests soon for sweeps. Stay tuned!

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RE: Air Unit Training - 3/23/2016 12:03:46 AM   
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Grfin Zeppelin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi



They also survive A to A combat better than pilots without experience, for whatever reason.



Crashlanding ? Ditching ? Jumping out with a parachute ? More Hit points () ?


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RE: Air Unit Training - 4/24/2016 11:53:45 PM   
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SheperdN7
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I've seen a lot of players complain about pilot training but in my opinion, its amazing. Being a JFB the need for a good pilot training program is crucial for me but I love looking at a young pilot in training and watching him progress through the war, earning kills, getting shot down just to survive and return to unit a few days or weeks later. Thats one of thousands of things I love about this game. The stories. The struggles for supremacy in the air. Ace pilots getting shot down in obsolete aircraft (cough oscars cough). Rookie pilots (trained but 0 missions) getting their first kills. I love it all!! And its all because of the pilot training feature. Someone asked me what the difference between skill and experience is.. And I go by this theory: Skill is how effective a pilot is at something, while experience is how they go about doing it. I've noticed the firing positions change depending on the experience of pilots (experienced pilots I find go for the weakspots of aircraft) But skill is the actual effectiveness of that.

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