FR vs IN 2018 scenarios for testing, update 1.2

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FR vs IN 2018 scenarios for testing, update 1.2 - 2/23/2016 7:21:17 PM

iborg

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EDITED, updated scenario attachment version 1.2 from 25/03/2016, built for CMANO 1.11 RC3
1.2 : Surface Punch rework
1.1 : event clean-up
0.9 update : re-versioning to reflect beta state / rebalancing of Angry Winds

Hello,
C:MANO is a great sandbox to test military what-ifs. On another forum I dwell in, guys started a what-if France vs India scenario, and I ran with it. The goal was basically to pitch the French Navy against the Indian one, after an hypothetical invasion of Reunion Island, a French oversea region in the Indian Ocean. Thinking about it I wanted to expand a bit beyond the classic CVBG vs CVBG showdown. I made two missions (which I will package into a campaign once I do the third one).
Both a playable from the French side.
First one (A day at the beach) features a French Rubis-class SSN tasked with bringing a special forces team ashore against IN ASW.
Second one, set a couple weeks later, has the French (mostly Air Force units based in Djibouti and Mayotte) setting to attrit Indian assets on the island.
The third one pits a French Surface Action Group versus an Indian carrier group and other assets. That's right : no Charles de Gaulle ! I hope it will end up challenging but not impossible.

These are my first serious scenario design efforts in C:MANO, using event scripting (I must thank the Baloogan campaign site and lua documentation !), so critics are welcome. I tried to make it challenging enough.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by iborg -- 3/25/2016 7:08:20 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 2/26/2016 4:31:38 PM

Sensei.Tokugawa

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Don't get put off by the apparent lack of response, I''l bet it's temporary. I have downloaded and launched the scenarios, they seem to work fine, I'll give them a go as soon as I have some time off. So far I'll just suggest clearing the log. I'll gladly welcome more Indian Ocean scenarios and I'll play anything that involves Indian forces. I think it would be a good idea to remake this scenarios for their side, but I think I can play that anyway by switching sides. However, that's not the same, I'll be missing the briefing and the mission details.

_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"

(in reply to iborg)

Post #: 2

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 2/26/2016 8:27:24 PM

AlexGGGG

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Well, easy meal for sharks so far. I would rather steal Alfa from Russians :) Clear the log, and the rest is OK.

As far as larger scenario goes, clear the log again and Phenix somewhere in aircraft names should probably be Phoenix. Other than that, I did not play it through, but I will.

Exclusion zones are customarily made from locked reference points, so it would not be possible to accidentally delete or bump the zone. And I expect the large no-nav zone in the middle between us and enemy will mess up the fuel management; it often (always?) does.

Also reference point circle around F733 Nivose ship, they are not relative; they should be set relative to the ship, fixed bearings (or rotating, it is a circle anyway).

< Message edited by AlexGGGG -- 2/26/2016 8:34:43 PM >

(in reply to Sensei.Tokugawa)

Post #: 3

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 2/26/2016 11:14:31 PM

iborg

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Thanks for the feedback ! I've been tweaking things, including some fixes (totally didn't realize I had to clear the log, that's being a newbie for you

).
I fixed the RPs (exclusion zone and Niv�se) and cleared the log, Phenix is the actual spelling for the French A-330 MRTT. I made some adjustments on the Indian side's logic and deployments as well. I'm attaching the new .scen file to this post.
For the third part of the campaign, I was planning a CV vs CV showdown, but there's already Clash of Titans doing this exact scenario and there's a rather massive imbalance between the two navies. So I'll do something different and hopefully more challenging

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 4

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 2/26/2016 11:24:20 PM

AlexGGGG

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I would suggest updating a first post. As I used to see around here, standard practice is to update the first post with an edit like "Version N updated date-time", and replace the scenario file in the first post. At least me, I will download the scenario from the first post without even scrolling down to read, considering possible spoilers.

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Post #: 5

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/3/2016 6:12:36 PM

iborg

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Well, I have continued refining the scenarios (I'm slightly obsessed with it

).
I added the La Fayette in One day at the beach, so that the FR player at least has an idea of what's happening over the surface.
More tweaks and adjustments to Angry Winds. The initial OOB for India was underwhelming (Tejas and Mig-21 are basically cannon fodder against Rafales) so I spiced it up with the assumption that the MMRCA ended up in purchase of the F-16IN (substitue UAE F-16E/F) and early deployment of PAK-FA. This should bring a more stimulating challenge to the player.
The scenario is pushing discrete 40 events now...

I hope it is now good enough to be the "release candidate version".
Still have to test Surface Punch extensively and fine-tune the scripting (writing the scenarios took all my CMANO playtime ! but it's so much fun !).

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Post #: 6

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/7/2016 7:10:16 PM

FoxZz

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I finished the first one and began the second one, those are nice scenarios for now.

However, I have a problem with events firing every second and spamming my message log, like the Submarine attack thing, or the IND SAM one.

Also, in the second scenario, I feel the French Navy needs at least 1 FREMM frigate. By 2018, 4 FREMM will be in service, and even if some have to escort the Carrier Group, it's very likely that one would be sent overseas, especially with a sub-threat and a French departement occupied. If you think the Scalp cruise missiles are too much, you can still remove them. The current OOB is too weak to be able to play a signnificant role, adding a FREMM would make the naval gameplay more interesting.

Second thing, I feel that there is way too much tanker available, you should reducce the number to 3 (1 MRTT and 2 C135FR). Tankers have always been a problem for the FAF. However, in addition of those 3 tankers in Djibouti, I would add 2 A400M which can be configured with a refuelling loadout in Mamoudzou. I would also add one more Atlantique-2 in Mamoudzou. For realistic purposes, you could also add a pair of Caracal helicopters in Mamoudzou for pilot rescue operations. Also, could you make the Apache missiles available for the Mirage 2000D ?

Other than that, I think it's pretty good.

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Post #: 7

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/8/2016 11:13:48 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FoxZz

I finished the first one and began the second one, those are nice scenarios for now.

However, I have a problem with events firing every second and spamming my message log, like the Submarine attack thing, or the IND SAM one.

Also, in the second scenario, I feel the French Navy needs at least 1 FREMM frigate. By 2018, 4 FREMM will be in service, and even if some have to escort the Carrier Group, it's very likely that one would be sent overseas, especially with a sub-threat and a French departement occupied. If you think the Scalp cruise missiles are too much, you can still remove them. The current OOB is too weak to be able to play a signnificant role, adding a FREMM would make the naval gameplay more interesting.

Second thing, I feel that there is way too much tanker available, you should reducce the number to 3 (1 MRTT and 2 C135FR). Tankers have always been a problem for the FAF. However, in addition of those 3 tankers in Djibouti, I would add 2 A400M which can be configured with a refuelling loadout in Mamoudzou. I would also add one more Atlantique-2 in Mamoudzou. For realistic purposes, you could also add a pair of Caracal helicopters in Mamoudzou for pilot rescue operations. Also, could you make the Apache missiles available for the Mirage 2000D ?

Other than that, I think it's pretty good.

Thanks for your feedback !
I can't do much about the event messages, but the player can disable them in game options (these and the Unit AI can be obnoxious), so they won't clutter the log

The absence of FREMMs is deliberate (they're intended to come into play in the third scenario, as part of the surface action group escorting amphibs). One alone would be quite vulnerable to the kind of anti-shipping strike the Indian side can launch anyway. The naval units are really intended as intelligence gathering platforms here : the Casabianca lacks decent weapons and the La Fayette is also too lightly armed but they're very good and stealthy ELINT assets.
Tankers are indeed one of the most glaring weak points on the FR side, the Stratotankers are ancient and the air force is crying for their new Airbus MRTTS (same for the transport fleet). I put two A400M in Mamoudzou, and tweaked the availability of the tankers in Djibouti, to simulate the heavy maintenance needed on those old platforms. The Caracal is a good idea for the general setting (not gonna add SAR missions though at this point... maybe later with Lua scripting).
I thought about the Apaches, but they were actually retired from service in 2007 IIRC (submunition ban issue).

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Post #: 8

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/13/2016 12:17:10 AM

FoxZz

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Hello,

I just finished the 2nd scenario, Angry Winds, and I have extra proposals to improve the scenario :

First of all, you should switch the airports from single unit to complete airports with all its independant and targetable components, this would make the attack of the airbases much more interesting with the possibility to ground or destroy the entire Indian airfleet in one raid for example.
Maybe to compensate the extra units you could delete some airports which are not involved in the mission and some civiilians units.
I would also add a third site of targets, maybe on the other side of the Island, to increase the difficulty of the bomping part of the mission. It could be like an army camp or something and also maybe add an other F40 to the Indian Navy, or replace the current one by an F45.

Also, I forgot to mention it previously, but the E-3 should be placed in Djibouti with the other liners.

Secondly, I feel there is too ammunition available in the Mamoudzou Airport, I would reducce the number of the following stuff:

- 8 exocets
- 8 SCALP
- 40 GBU-49
- 80 Mica EM
- 40 Mica IR
- 20 Magic II
- 4 Damocl�s pod (1 for each Mirage 2000D) and you can remove all the PDLCT which are not in use anymore.

However, in Djibouti, You should add 80 GBU-22 and another AEROS recon pod.

This would insure that Mamoudzou stay the light foward operated airbase while the main one is in Djibouti, and not the opposite.

Lastly, you should not put the SAM batteries in a mission, because when they are in one, the computer makes them move all the time and they cannot engage. You might also want to disable the god's eye view on the rebel side.
Also, it would be nice if the player could control the Spec Op team that he infiltrated in the previous mission, and since the sub just infiltrated a team, maybe it should be positionned closer from the Island.

Other than that, it's a very nice scenario, challenging and entertaining, I liked it a lot, very nice to play with French units in a modern scenario.
Hope this will be helpfull :).

< Message edited by FoxZz -- 3/13/2016 12:21:28 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/14/2016 12:07:51 AM

iborg

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Suggestions taken into account ! I made the Indian airports into "proper" unit groups (took the opportunity to use proper IN unit names). I discovered about the roaming SAMs while testing Surface Punch and planned to correct it, done now.
Added another army camp as target. SpecOps team not playable, they're supposed to provide the background intel and train/organize the resistance cells. Initially I wanted to add paradrop insertion of troops, but CMANO doesn't allow those (so far) without scripting and the player already has enough on his plate I think.
Right now I feel it's pretty much the "final" version of the scenario, at least until CMANO 1.11 is out (those AAR improvements

) not to mention the advanced strike planner... They should be highly useful in setting AI FR missions and thus making the Indian side playable.

(in reply to FoxZz)

Post #: 10

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/15/2016 1:22:01 AM

AndrewJ

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Playing the first mission, it looks like the scoring and expenditures log needs to be cleared. It currently shows you have 100 points for inserting the SOF team at the start of the mission, and that the Indians have dropped a number of sonobuouys.

The reference points for the inner area trigger are also out of order, so they generate a cris-crossing shape instead of a simple circle around the island. This may cause difficulties for the AI to calculate whether something is inside the zone or not.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 3/15/2016 1:25:48 AM >

(in reply to iborg)

Post #: 11

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/15/2016 9:11:17 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Playing the first mission, it looks like the scoring and expenditures log needs to be cleared. It currently shows you have 100 points for inserting the SOF team at the start of the mission, and that the Indians have dropped a number of sonobuouys.

The reference points for the inner area trigger are also out of order, so they generate a cris-crossing shape instead of a simple circle around the island. This may cause difficulties for the AI to calculate whether something is inside the zone or not.

I didn't even know the scoring log could be cleared

Done.
With the powers of 1.11 (area validation yay !) I cleaned up all three scenarios for ref points crisscrossing around.
Otherwise, I did tweak the AI missions (with the new refueling options) and added more ground morsels in Angry Winds.

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Post #: 12

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/16/2016 4:05:48 AM

AndrewJ

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It also looks like the sub isn't triggering the SOF deployment event, because the specific unit which was originally selected to trigger the event isn't present any more. Perhaps you cloned or replaced it at one point?

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Post #: 13

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/16/2016 8:55:20 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

It also looks like the sub isn't triggering the SOF deployment event, because the specific unit which was originally selected to trigger the event isn't present any more. Perhaps you cloned or replaced it at one point?

Indeed, I checked it and there was a double entry. It should be good now.
I took the opportunity to make the airport at Mayotte a proper (component-based) one too. Also added a the harbor to serve as a base for the frigates.

Edit : I test played Angry Winds a bit. Seems the Indians are quite trigger happy. Also, PAK-FAs rape Sentries. I guess it's a proper challenge now

< Message edited by iborg -- 3/16/2016 10:30:21 PM >

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/16/2016 11:56:23 PM

AndrewJ

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Is there an event to reassign the P-8s from their support mission to the ASW strike mission? I can see the "IN-Activate ASW Poseidon mission" event, which has the action to turn the ASW patrol to active, but it doesn't have the "IN-Assign Neptune to ASW patrol" action, so the P-8s stay on their initial support mission.

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/17/2016 10:10:06 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Is there an event to reassign the P-8s from their support mission to the ASW strike mission? I can see the "IN-Activate ASW Poseidon mission" event, which has the action to turn the ASW patrol to active, but it doesn't have the "IN-Assign Neptune to ASW patrol" action, so the P-8s stay on their initial support mission.

There was to be one... except it slipped out of my attention

Should be correct now.
While adding stuff (more events... more things potentially happening...

) to Angry Winds I realized the presence of those ImportExport folders full of already designed .INST files... Still can't believe the richness of this game

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/17/2016 11:58:25 PM

AndrewJ

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I just started Angry Winds yesterday, and it seems like the Indians are sometimes engaging Civilian aircraft - an ATR-72-500 is currently reported missing.

And wow, the window of opportunity to get your single available airborne missile onto Surprise #1 is truly razor thin. A single missile malfunction and you're toast.

EDIT: Indian Air Force shoots down Boeing 767! UN Outraged. Widespread condemnation. "Technical failure of French structural component on airliner obviously to blame" says Indian ambassador.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 3/18/2016 12:18:22 AM >

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/18/2016 9:37:46 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

I just started Angry Winds yesterday, and it seems like the Indians are sometimes engaging Civilian aircraft - an ATR-72-500 is currently reported missing.

And wow, the window of opportunity to get your single available airborne missile onto Surprise #1 is truly razor thin. A single missile malfunction and you're toast.

EDIT: Indian Air Force shoots down Boeing 767! UN Outraged. Widespread condemnation. "Technical failure of French structural component on airliner obviously to blame" says Indian ambassador.

Haha, yes, I noticed that when playtesting the previous version. It was a result of "free" RoE and exclusion zones. But I think with RoE set to tight now it should avoid wanton civilian massacres

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/19/2016 6:05:58 AM

AndrewJ

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Looking at the Atlantiques based in Dzaoudzi, it turns out that because there are no spare Exocets there, once one of them uses an Exocet they must switch to another loadout (such as an ASW loadout). However, there aren't enough torpedoes there to fill the ASW loadout either, which means it's a surveillance loadout, LGBs (!), or nothing.

I can understand the Exocets being in short supply, but maybe a few more torpedoes would be helpful in order to let the planes continue ASW patrols once the missiles are gone?

(I'm worried that the Indians are going to try and sneak in some troops by submarine, so I'm patrolling around the island there.)

(in reply to iborg)

Post #: 19

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/19/2016 4:43:18 PM

iborg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Looking at the Atlantiques based in Dzaoudzi, it turns out that because there are no spare Exocets there, once one of them uses an Exocet they must switch to another loadout (such as an ASW loadout). However, there aren't enough torpedoes there to fill the ASW loadout either, which means it's a surveillance loadout, LGBs (!), or nothing.

I can understand the Exocets being in short supply, but maybe a few more torpedoes would be helpful in order to let the planes continue ASW patrols once the missiles are gone?

(I'm worried that the Indians are going to try and sneak in some troops by submarine, so I'm patrolling around the island there.)

Hmmm, good idea.

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Post #: 20

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/21/2016 6:40:03 PM

iborg

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So, I was play testing Angry Winds... and I got the feeling that it had become too stacked in India's favor, with SPOILERS ! Highlight to read the S-400 battery making any missile attack ineffective./SPOILERS
The American approach would be to swamp them with cruise missiles and stand-off jamming but France cannot afford that, hence using alternative means. Here, I'm indeed assuming it would proceed with alternate means.

Also, I included in the .zip an alternative version... featuring the French CVBG, if the regular one is too hard

< Message edited by iborg -- 3/21/2016 6:41:17 PM >

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/22/2016 8:25:36 PM

FoxZz

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I think the S400 problem is linked to the radars set up on the Island.
Against such a solid defense, the French doctrine is to get in couple of meters above the ground at max speed to get under the radar, and relying on Rafale Spectra jamming (which isn't modeled in the game yet). But Reunion island is an island, and since the sea is very flat, the radars see the planes coming from very far away.
I've checked the radars you set on the island, there is on huge fix radar, the surveillance radar, and the airborne one. I think you should remove the Surveillance radar, and arguably, replace the airborne one with another one.
Indeed, the surveillance radar is basically a fix radar that India has in limited number to watch over its territory, it's very unlikely that they just demolish such a radar to bring it on a Island on such a short notice. I think the Indian defence should rely only on relatively light radar that can be brought by ship relatively easilly.
If the Indians have a reducced situation awarness, I think it would allow the French side to use alternative means and intersting strategies (like destroying the airfiels asap for example).
Otherwise, the only solution I found out was to clear out the skies, wave after waves, and when the Indian side is out of planes, you can bring in the bombers and overhelm the defense system.

Gonna try out this new version.

(in reply to iborg)

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/22/2016 10:47:33 PM

iborg

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Get the one on steam then. I did more testing this afternoon, fixed one of the scripted events that was buggy, and other stuff, but didn't have time to repack it and upload it here.
I'm inclined to agree though, I may have given the Indians too many big radars and in conjunction with the big SAM battalion, made it a bit too much. I've addressed the SAM issue, but I'm tempted to remove the tethered radar. Maybe add more light weight stuff as you said, that could conceivably be brought and deployed in a relatively short time.

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Post #: 23

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/24/2016 12:01:27 AM

iborg

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And there, now it should be good. At least, good enough to be considered final.

Although I've yet to play test Surface Punch as much as I did Angry Winds, but the latest is pretty much done. The Indian side has a more sensible IADS setup.

Edit : I did a major clean up of the events. Using the lua code to assign a possibly dead unit to a mission, so there shouldn't be any of those pesky error messages any more when a trigger assigns some dead unit to a new mission. Now using variables to keep track of number of specific unit destroyed. Using variables adds another depth of interaction in scenarios...

< Message edited by iborg -- 3/25/2016 2:17:51 AM >

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Post #: 24

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 3/25/2016 7:09:02 PM

iborg

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Surface Punch now updated using all the stuff I learnt working over Angry Winds.

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RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 4/3/2016 10:31:14 AM

virtual francky

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Hi, thanks for the scenarios, but I have a problem with loading the Angry Winds, it just doesn't load, without any specific message, any idea ?

Edit : Trying to load the 1st scenario "a day at the beach" give me an error regarding to load a non existing database. Dont know what to do about this one neither.

< Message edited by virtual francky -- 4/3/2016 10:49:13 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 4/3/2016 2:28:58 PM

comsubpac

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Try applying the latest Beta.

(in reply to virtual francky)

Post #: 27

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 4/3/2016 3:25:34 PM

virtual francky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: comsubpac

Try applying the latest Beta.

Ok thanks, but Beta is not available on Steam.

Edit : OK, I have found where to download it. Thanks

< Message edited by virtual francky -- 4/3/2016 3:32:57 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 4/3/2016 5:27:03 PM

virtual francky

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Ok so I have finished the 1st scenario, here is my score 115 pts, I had 2 errors, Comman Neptune not found if I remember, and the other one I dont remember sorry. It was nice to play, the defense of the Indian boat was very good, none of my Exocet from the fregate touched it, I had to sunk it with the Sub.

SIDE: France
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
75x 100mm/55 Model 1968 HE Burst [4 rnds]
84x 100mm/55 Model 1968 PFHE Burst [4 rnds]
41x 20mm/90 Giat 20F2 Burst [20 rnds]
20x 7.62mm Mk77 Minigun Burst [100 rnds]
2x CONTRALTO-S [SLAT]
4x F17 Mod 2
2x Generic Acoustic Decoy
8x MM.40 Exocet Blk III
8x R.440N Crotale-NG VT1
4x SM.39 Exocet Blk II

SIDE: India
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F 40 Talwar [Pr.1135.6 Krivak IV]
2x Ka-28 Helix A
1x P 28 Kamorta [Pr.28]
2x P-8I Neptune [Poseidon]
1x S 50 Kalvari [Scorpene]

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
6x 76mm/62 Super Rapido HE Burst [2 rnds]
4x A.184 Black Shark
6x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
20x AN/SSQ-53F DIFAR
15x AN/SSQ-62E DICASS
2x CIRCE Torpedo Decoy
2x CIRCE Torpedo Jammer
4x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
12x SA-N-12 Grizzly [9M317]
1x SET-65E Enot [NATO ET-80A[67]]

SIDE: Civilian
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------

EXPENDITURES:
------------------

Edit : I still cant load the 2 others scenarios. :(

< Message edited by virtual francky -- 4/3/2016 5:32:54 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: New scenarios in future FR vs IN campaign 2018 - 5/14/2017 12:12:06 PM

ClaudeJ

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Nice scenarios iborg, having fun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: iborg
(...)
I thought about the Apaches, but they were actually retired from service in 2007 IIRC (submunition ban issue).

(2015 informations, not sure about today)

the Apache missile wasn't retired but fell out of favor as it was thought that its cluster submunitions were against the 1997 Ottawa Treaty.

In 2011 while preparing the first strike on Libya, someone in the hierarchy determined that its submunitions were big enough to be technically within the norm and the order came to plan the use of some of the 100 Apache still in stock against Al-Jufra airbase. It came as a surprise for the reason mentioned above and only a few still knew how to use the programming console that weren't updated since the '80.
When it was finally decided to use Scalp missiles instead, to not destroy runways that could come handy later on to infiltrate assets, it was received as big relief.
(From Harmattan, R�cits et R�v�lation by Jean-Marc Tanguy.)

As far as I know, that missile only have been qualified on Mirage 2000 and are still in stock so I assume they will be either sold, used for teaching or destroyed.

(in reply to iborg)

Post #: 30

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