Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike

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Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 1:52:29 PM

U6443

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/2/2004
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Hi
I have a hostile sub with a uncertainly area and i have made a ASW Strike Mission, but the P-3B Orion only drops passive sonobuoys.

On a ASW Patrol mission i will expcect passive sonobuoys, but on a ASW STrike Mission i would like to drop active sonobuoys (Yes i can drop active sonobuoys with a shortcut but i had made a Mission to do it automatically......)

EMCOM is set to active sonar...

Is this by Design?

Thank's
Andy

Post #: 1

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 4:23:02 PM

Gizzmoe

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Germany
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I've tested it with a P-3C ASW Strike against a Kilo in version B807, I ran the mission several times, sometimes the first buoy is a passive one, sometimes it's active, sometime it's shallow, sometimes deep. The last contact is 6 minutes old when the P-3 drops the first buoy. Then it usually takes 15 minutes until it drops the second buoy. It is rare that the P-3 kills the Kilo on the first try and only if the first buoy was an active one, but that is to be expected. My experience is that when the first buoy is a passive one the P-3 is never going to find the Kilo in that scenario. In general the P-3 crew really lacks determination and common sense ;)

Here is the test scenario:
bit.ly/1MMXO50

(in reply to U6443)

Post #: 2

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 5:46:22 PM

U6443

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

Hi

Thank's. It is strange. It has dropped 15 passive and no active buoy.

I will repeat it again

Thank's

(in reply to Gizzmoe)

Post #: 3

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 9:07:42 PM

magi

Posts: 1529
Joined: 2/1/2014
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I've been thinking about this also.... I often do the active ones manually� they really should be saved for localization and prosecution�

I suspect the initial area of patrol is passive... But in localization and prosecution should be active.... I am not certain in the ASW air patrol mission ENCOM set to sonar active.... If or how it effects the use of sonobuoys�? It's a good question�

I am also trying to figure out how to direct my patrol aircraft to where I want them to start their mission�.

Also I'm not sure how to get my assets with dipping sonar.... To just use the dipping sonar and save the sonobuoys for prosecution�

< Message edited by magi -- 3/28/2016 9:13:16 PM >

(in reply to U6443)

Post #: 4

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 9:23:01 PM

Gizzmoe

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: magi
I am not certain in the ASW air patrol mission ENCOM set to sonar active.... If or how it effects the use of sonobuoys�?

It doesn't affect it, it also uses active buoys when EMCON is passive.

< Message edited by Gizzmoe -- 3/28/2016 9:25:22 PM >

(in reply to magi)

Post #: 5

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 9:51:16 PM

magi

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Joined: 2/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gizzmoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: magi
I am not certain in the ASW air patrol mission ENCOM set to sonar active.... If or how it effects the use of sonobuoys�?

It doesn't affect it, it also uses active buoys when EMCON is passive.

Humm... Well I just don't know..... I do know that in the real world they don't casually use active sonobuoys as they are very expensive... Although the cost per unit of modern sonobuoys has come down dramatically� A real good rare bit of news for sensor/weapon system......

< Message edited by magi -- 3/28/2016 9:56:14 PM >

(in reply to Gizzmoe)

Post #: 6

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/28/2016 10:53:08 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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You guys can drop any sonobouy manually so there is a workaround in all cases.

ASW mission's don't drop types based on the EMCON condition. It might seem intuitive to do that it but it isn't. I would suggest reading the manual and doing some basic homework before posting stuff just so everybody is on the same page and we don't have to waste time suggesting that people read the manual.

In the future we may look at specific mission templates or allowing players to modify via lua so we don't have to deal will dilbert everytime he think's were doing it wrong.

Thanks

Mike

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 3/28/2016 10:54:30 PM >

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(in reply to magi)

Post #: 7

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 12:27:57 AM

magi

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Ok... Thank you...

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 8

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 5:07:56 PM

Gizzmoe

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
In the future we may look at specific mission templates or allowing players to modify via lua

We don't actually need that if you would make the ASW Strike AI a bit more decisive ;) IMO it shouldn't be that a P-3 drops just a single passive sonobuoy on a six-minute old sub contact (probability diameter 3.3nm) and then waits 15-20 minutes before it drops the second one. Yes, sometimes it drops an active buoy, it's 50/50. And why not drop two buoys simultaneously more often at different depth settings?

< Message edited by Gizzmoe -- 3/29/2016 5:28:12 PM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 9

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 5:55:14 PM

SeaQueen

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The problem is that at some point you have to make an assumption about the MPA's tactics regarding sonobuoy use. Most likely different nations and weapons systems use different tactics. Furthermore, the whole point of a wargame is to be able to experiment with tactics (including different patterns, active v. passive search, etc.). So, what's there right now is a sort of minimal set of behaviors to get it functional. If you want to go into more detail, you can take control manually.

One of the things I think is cool about Command, is the increasing number of settings allowing one to define a given object's tactics, enabling one to take a more "hands off" approach and deal with increasingly large scenarios while still having the tactical flexibility to make meaningful decisions regarding weapons employment, sensor employment, etc. MPA just isn't quite there yet, I'm sure they'll get there though. Overall, I'm pretty happy with how things behave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gizzmoe
We don't actually need that if you would make the ASW Strike AI a bit more decisive ;) IMO it shouldn't be that a P-3 drops just a single passive sonobuoy on a six-minute old sub contact (probability diameter 3.3nm) and then waits 15-20 minutes before it drops the second one. Yes, sometimes it drops an active buoy, it's 50/50. And why not drop two buoys simultaneously more often at different depth settings?

(in reply to Gizzmoe)

Post #: 10

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 6:31:56 PM

mikmykWS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gizzmoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
In the future we may look at specific mission templates or allowing players to modify via lua

We don't actually need that if you would make the ASW Strike AI a bit more decisive ;) IMO it shouldn't be that a P-3 drops just a single passive sonobuoy on a six-minute old sub contact (probability diameter 3.3nm) and then waits 15-20 minutes before it drops the second one. Yes, sometimes it drops an active buoy, it's 50/50. And why not drop two buoys simultaneously more often at different depth settings?

Its likely distance vs the growth of the uncertainty zone. Bouys are dropped at 1 and a half times their detection range. This was done because players felt zones were being over utilized. We'll take a look but in the meantime manually drop.

Mike

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Post #: 11

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 7:06:23 PM

Gizzmoe

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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Bouys are dropped at 1 and a half times their detection range. This was done because players felt zones were being over utilized.

1.5 times is fully ok, only the time it takes between drops is too long. And like I said, simultaneous drops of two buoys at different depths would be great :)

quote:

We'll take a look but in the meantime manually drop.

Will do.

< Message edited by Gizzmoe -- 3/29/2016 7:08:59 PM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 12

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 7:17:01 PM

mikmykWS

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I said we'd take a look. Stop being a drag.

Mike

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Post #: 13

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 7:20:47 PM

Gizzmoe

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen
[...}while still having the tactical flexibility to make meaningful decisions regarding weapons employment, sensor employment, etc.

"tactical flexibility" is a nice term, but in reality it can mean plastering a large ASW search area with countless sonobouys by hand, because the ASW Patrol AI just cannot get it right. Have you ever done that? I bet you did. I do, but it is not fun for me, especially not in larger scenarios when there are a lot of other things to do and monitor.

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 14

RE: Drop active sonobuoys in an ASW Strike - 3/29/2016 7:25:36 PM

Gizzmoe

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Germany
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