RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Wars of Napoleon >> After Action Report >> RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us)

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RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 3/30/2016 10:47:03 AM

ess1

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He would have voted with his heart and head. He is probably looking down on us and lamenting: "If I could command Britex..."

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 61

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 3/30/2016 11:45:40 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ess1

He would have voted with his heart and head. He is probably looking down on us and lamenting: "If I could command Britex..."

you do realise that is quite possible that not everyone following this thread agrees with your views on the UK and the EU? So making this point several times runs the risk of triggering a response and badly derailing the thread ... which would be a huge pity

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(in reply to ess1)

Post #: 62

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 3/30/2016 1:54:24 PM

ess1

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/13/2004
From: Newport, Shropshire, U.K.
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Please all except my apology. I sometimes forget that not everyone has my sense of humour.

@loki100 - Thank you for reminding me.

I will not deviate from thread again.

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Post #: 63

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 8:55:41 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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From: England
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Right I think its time to get this game properly started. I think its clear that the learning curve is going to be steep, but I will try and make it easier than it otherwise could be by setting the options to the recommended default settings.

This means, amongst other things, that attrition will be less harsh, easy supply is on and the AI will purchase replacements. However, Fog of War is on so its not going to be a free ride!

EDIT: Under advice from Loki I also turn the Battle Planner on (Thanks)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 9:13:57 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to ess1)

Post #: 64

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 9:03:23 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

One of the strange things is not have a set order for going about things. This makes learning the game that much more difficult, but I think the first thing I should do is to get some diplomacy going; after all, the British cannot defeat Napoleon without a lot of 'armed muscle' and the 'armed muscle' is going to need a lot of 'cashola'

The top left button allows entry to the Diplomacy screen

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 65

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 9:03:41 AM

loki100

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you might want to enable the battle plans. They are a fun bit of chrome for SP games, but do help show up the advantages of the really good generals in the game

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Post #: 66

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 9:08:41 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

you might want to enable the battle plans. They are a fun bit of chrome for SP games, but do help show up the advantages of the really good generals in the game

warspite1

Done - amended post above.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 67

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 9:26:10 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

The Prussians and the Austrians like me (well who wouldn't?) but the Russians are not hugely friendly (Neutral). So what can I do to smooth matter along?

I ask the Russians for a State visit (at the cost of one diplomat) and sent this off to await a reply. I do the same to Sweden, Egypt and the USA.

I have 44 Diplomats left.

I use 8 (4 for each) to try and get a coalition going with Austria and Prussia, both of whom like me (+100 rating).

These will no doubt take time to get to the various courts, so in the meantime, what else needs looking at?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 9:40:30 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 68

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 9:49:37 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

The next screen is located by the button to the right of the Diplomacy Screen - The Military Recruitment Mode. Apart from the map going all orangey-red, a list of unit available appears at the bottom of the screen.

The units can be grouped into unit types - infantry, artillery etc

If I click on one of the units (in this case a Fusilier Brigade) I get the following information up:

- on map = 0
- available = 6
- overall combat strength = 63

Construction costs

- pounds = 315
- conscripts = 462
- war supplies =15
- days = 60

Double-clicking then confirms one or more regions where this unit is able to be built.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 10:06:10 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 69

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 10:00:20 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

At the top of the main screen I have the following numbers and symbols

- Victory Points, Pounds, Conscript Companies, Tons War Supplies, Horses and Engagement points.

I will purchase some units and see what this does to my overall situation (and how quickly (or not) that is replenished next turn.

The immediate thing that hits you is the lack of conscripts. I build a supply brigade* and place it in Belfast. This uses up all conscripts for this turn.

* As boring units go, a supply wagon is right up there. However, if the British Army are going to the Peninsular or Egypt or any other far flung place, I suspect I am going to need these to maintain the Thin Red Line in Tea and Crumpets... oh and ammunition.

There is a red stripe across it which no doubt means it is not available for a while yet.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 10:23:34 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 70

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 10:17:50 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

Continuing clockwise the next button in the top left hand corner is the decision mode.

Similar to the construction mode, the map goes all flame coloured, and this is used to separate the green regions where the various cards may be played.

There are a number of categories.

Loyalty
Economy
Development
Military Control
Military Action
Various

Lets look at Economy first as that seems a sensible place

The options presented are:

- Draft
- Volunteers
- Seize Horses
- Requisitions
- Plunder
- Smuggle Goods

Each come with a cost (of course) for which certain benefits are derived.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 10:41:17 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 71

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 10:53:07 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

I plump for the draft in Dublin, Volunteers in Liverpool, Requisitions in London, Smuggle Goods in Nantes. That is all I will do for now and see what happens.

These are not guaranteed to be successful and, in the case of overseas actions, can result in retaliation, and no doubt in the case of the home country, can result in an unhappy populace.....

The draft in Dublin could net 600 conscripts and will take 3 turns - cost 10 VP's, 20% Loyalty and 5 Development Points (maybe loyalty being tested is not a great decision in Dublin at Easter time

). The chance of success is 85%

In Liverpool the prize is 150 conscripts over 3 turns, this time at a cost of 15 VP with a 75% chance.

In London the requisitions take 1 turn. I hope to raise �200,000 big one at a cost of 20% Loyalty, 20% Military Control, 1 Victory Point and 4 Development Points

In Nantes I am trying to obtain �300,000 from smuggled goods

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 11:06:35 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 72

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 10:59:17 AM

loki100

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great to see you going on with this.

Couple of general comments:

a) you can always go back to your settings later and twiddle them if you find its not working - a few of the AI bonuses (such as detection) really help it out. Also simple supply removes a key bit to the game system. Won't matter for a while but if you do get caught up in a war in say Spain you might want to revisit that one.

b) Diplomacy, there are a few missions that the recipient can't refuse but do improve relations. These are good for long term smooching of a potential ally who is a bit unsure about you at the start.

c) I wouldn't build anything at start. Its a long game and its no bad idea to play out 4-5 turns just to let the economy settle down, if I bought anything up front it would be replacements. You've left this to the AI (it does a good enough job) but you need to leave the resources for it to work. Once combat starts, the army that wins the longer campaign is the one that can replace its battle losses the quickest - ie has a decent stockpile of replacements.

d) some of the regional decision cards effectively circulate some assets (VP/cash/whatever) into other assets (morale/vp/cash/whatever) - sometimes at a trade off for development. Its worth thinking over which you have lots of us (guess with the UK cash) and which you need and basing your card strategy around this.

e) when you are using decisions that raise or lower the development levels its worth thinking of the cut off values. Civilised is >75, Developed >50, Cleared > 19 and wild below that. In turn these affect both production and unit speed. So its not a good idea to play a card that lowers development if it will drop the province from civilised to developed. But the cards that raise development can be used to push a resource rich province from wild to cleared and so on - with a real payback

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...

There is a red stripe across it which no doubt means it is not available for a while yet.

if you hover your mouse over the unit it will tell you how long it will be fixed for. It can be moved before its fully ready so that is a trade off with military units that you can fling them into battle with low cohesion etc or wait a few more turns for them to fully train up

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/2/2016 11:05:49 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 73

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 11:12:59 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

great to see you going on with this.

Couple of general comments:

a) you can always go back to your settings later and twiddle them if you find its not working - a few of the AI bonuses (such as detection) really help it out. Also simple supply removes a key bit to the game system. Won't matter for a while but if you do get caught up in a war in say Spain you might want to revisit that one.

b) Diplomacy, there are a few missions that the recipient can't refuse but do improve relations. These are good for long term smooching of a potential ally who is a bit unsure about you at the start.

c) I wouldn't build anything at start. Its a long game and its no bad idea to play out 4-5 turns just to let the economy settle down, if I bought anything up front it would be replacements. You've left this to the AI (it does a good enough job) but you need to leave the resources for it to work. Once combat starts, the army that wins the longer campaign is the one that can replace its battle losses the quickest - ie has a decent stockpile of replacements.

d) some of the regional decision cards effectively circulate some assets (VP/cash/whatever) into other assets (morale/vp/cash/whatever) - sometimes at a trade off for development. Its worth thinking over which you have lots of us (guess with the UK cash) and which you need and basing your card strategy around this.

e) when you are using decisions that raise or lower the development levels its worth thinking of the cut off values. Civilised is >75, Developed >50, Cleared > 19 and wild below that. In turn these affect both production and unit speed. So its not a good idea to play a card that lowers development if it will drop the province from civilised to developed. But the cards that raise development can be used to push a resource rich province from wild to cleared and so on - with a real payback

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...

There is a red stripe across it which no doubt means it is not available for a while yet.

if you hover your mouse over the unit it will tell you how long it will be fixed for. It can be moved before its fully ready so that is a trade off with military units that you can fling them into battle with low cohesion etc or wait a few more turns for them to fully train up

warspite1

Okay thanks. I think the need to buy stuff is just to see what happens and what the mechanics are at this stage.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 74

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 11:23:53 AM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

The final button is the strategic atlas that we have looked at previously, and from where the various military units can be quickly accessed.

The main thing I want to do at this stage is ensure my units are sea are healthy - and maintained in a healthy state ready for any enemy activity.

I first click on our old friend Admiral Keith.

I see that he has the following Posture and Rules of Engagement symbols applied (to the left of Admiral Keith and from top to bottom):

Posture: Defensive. The stack won't engage but if attacked will defend (Note: this sounds a bit strange for a unit that is supposed to be on the look-out for an enemy invasion force! - however there does not seem to be an alternative)

ROE: The stack will conduct combat normally.

Supply looks good for the blockading forces I have checked - Keith off Dover, Calder off Finistere and Horatio off Cadiz.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 12:02:22 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 75

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 12:05:35 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

So with that done, I end my first turn of WON....

...and I get this

Well that was a waste of a morning - must have been the vast array of orders I gave the program......

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 12:25:49 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 76

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 1:24:43 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

During the AI turn a Spanish fleet under Cordova sailed and attacked Admiral Calder. The result was a defeat for the Spanish

I am not sure what these numbers mean so will need to read up. To my mind this indicates the British have lost a ship but I cannot see which one.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 7:06:24 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 77

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 6:35:09 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Right I think its time to get this game properly started. I think its clear that the learning curve is going to be steep, but I will try and make it easier than it otherwise could be by setting the options to the recommended default settings.

This means, amongst other things, that attrition will be less harsh, easy supply is on and the AI will purchase replacements. However, Fog of War is on so its not going to be a free ride!

EDIT: Under advice from Loki I also turn the Battle Planner on (Thanks)

Easy supply? Better to not have that. You'll pick up habits that will kill you in a PBEM

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 78

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 6:46:13 PM

Zorch

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See http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?43019-Crashes

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 79

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:06:57 PM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

I also call up the detailed summary to try and make further sense of what just happened. I will go through the manual tomorrow.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 7:14:33 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 80

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:09:30 PM

warspite1

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Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

Battle of El Ferrol (cont)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 7:13:28 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 81

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:14:19 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Right I think its time to get this game properly started. I think its clear that the learning curve is going to be steep, but I will try and make it easier than it otherwise could be by setting the options to the recommended default settings.

This means, amongst other things, that attrition will be less harsh, easy supply is on and the AI will purchase replacements. However, Fog of War is on so its not going to be a free ride!

EDIT: Under advice from Loki I also turn the Battle Planner on (Thanks)

Easy supply? Better to not have that. You'll pick up habits that will kill you in a PBEM

warspite1

Okay - last amendment to the optionals.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 82

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:14:38 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

See http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?43019-Crashes

warspite1

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 83

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:36:48 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

During the AI turn a Spanish fleet under Cordova sailed and attacked Admiral Calder. The result was a defeat for the Spanish

I am not sure what these numbers mean so will need to read up. To my mind this indicates the British have lost a ship but I cannot see which one.

it means you have lost an element - ie one ship. Only way to spot this is to click on each 'unit' (ie multiple ship counter) and you'll see one with a red band (its clearer to see than explain) on the right hand side display - thats your missing element. To repair, you'll need to send that counter to a port and leavein the green stance.

The detailed reports aren't very informative for fleet battles but can be very useful for land battles, what it does tell is you which of your squadrons engaged which of the Spanish. Note that in every case you had a mild advantage and that added up over the battle. Their notional advantage in numbers was negated as they couldn't bring their extra ships to battle

Of tactical importance you were the defender (blue stance), they attacked (orange stance), from experience in AGE naval battles that is ideal as many ships have better scores when defending than attacking

edit: on the subject of your settings - have a poke around on the AI tab. At the very least give the AI 'more time'. It will slow turn processing a bit but the additional processing resources will really help the AI

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/2/2016 7:39:40 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 84

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 7:42:21 PM

Franciscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Posture: Defensive. The stack won't engage but if attacked will defend (Note: this sounds a bit strange for a unit that is supposed to be on the look-out for an enemy invasion force! - however there does not seem to be an alternative)

ROE: The stack will conduct combat normally

Hi

Posture and ROE can be changed. Just click on each respective symbol and the other options will appear.

That is one of the so called "user-friendly" changes to Ageod UI... In "older" games like AJE, all options for posture and ROE are visible always.

Cheers

_____________________________

Former AJE team member

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 85

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 8:24:06 PM

Aurelian

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You mean these?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Franciscus)

Post #: 86

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 8:27:53 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

You mean these?

warspite1

Yes but the question was simply to query why Keith, armed with stopping the French crossing the channel, is under order in defensive mode, to not attack.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 87

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 8:48:27 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 1
January 1-7 1805

During the AI turn a Spanish fleet under Cordova sailed and attacked Admiral Calder. The result was a defeat for the Spanish

I am not sure what these numbers mean so will need to read up. To my mind this indicates the British have lost a ship but I cannot see which one.

it means you have lost an element - ie one ship. Only way to spot this is to click on each 'unit' (ie multiple ship counter) and you'll see one with a red band (its clearer to see than explain) on the right hand side display - thats your missing element. To repair, you'll need to send that counter to a port and leavein the green stance.

The detailed reports aren't very informative for fleet battles but can be very useful for land battles, what it does tell is you which of your squadrons engaged which of the Spanish. Note that in every case you had a mild advantage and that added up over the battle. Their notional advantage in numbers was negated as they couldn't bring their extra ships to battle

Of tactical importance you were the defender (blue stance), they attacked (orange stance), from experience in AGE naval battles that is ideal as many ships have better scores when defending than attacking

edit: on the subject of your settings - have a poke around on the AI tab. At the very least give the AI 'more time'. It will slow turn processing a bit but the additional processing resources will really help the AI

warspite1

Okay I have found the red band (just). HMS Neptune needs a good deal of TLC.

Where did you find all that analysis about number of guns, who engaged in various rounds and why there are so many love hearts in the pictures? I could see none of this in the manual.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/2/2016 8:59:49 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 88

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/2/2016 10:20:24 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

You mean these?

warspite1

Yes but the question was simply to query why Keith, armed with stopping the French crossing the channel, is under order in defensive mode, to not attack.

Defense mode, IIRC, lowers cohesion and supply loss.

Hover your mouse over the symbols in the detailed battle screen for the tool tips.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/2/2016 10:26:16 PM >

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 89

RE: Nelson, Wellington and.. er Warspite (God help us) - 4/3/2016 7:47:20 AM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...
Where did you find all that analysis about number of guns, who engaged in various rounds and why there are so many love hearts in the pictures? I could see none of this in the manual.
...

The hearts are the number of elements/hit points, the hatched square shows you the combat power of the unit.

Hit points matter as once a stack has selected another stack to fight they determine the likely target - more hit points more likely to be targetted. In this case you had one stack on each side so the first phase of the combat routine was set aside.

Being the biggest unit on the battlefield can bring problems - especially in land battles with artillery, but also its probably your most powerful unit (so again its a trade off). In a naval battle there is not much you can do as the squadrons are all prebuilt but its something to bear in mind when designing divisions for land forces.

Each line of the combat report shows a clash within the overall battle. Note that 2 of your squadrons picked on the Morroco Sq and the single (powerful) ship Asturias squadron was picked by a relatively large Northumberland Sq. I'd suspect that most of the ships you sunk came from those two enemy squadrons.

The combat engine is designed on the logic that you set your forces up for battle (and there is a lot of tricks here) and then its executed for you. If you want more info on what actually happened you need to dig into the game logs (and these are not served from turn to turn). AGEOD have gone back and forth over this issue. In some early games (Rise of Prussia) the detailed on screen log was incredibly informative but the recent set its more indicative - but land battles will give you more information than naval ones do.

edit: some of this comes from practice, but my guess is that the Spanish fleet included transport units. Its the only explanation I can think of for the relatively high number of hit points and combat power (your top level report) compared to the detail. Its one of the many reasons why the raw combat power score is useful but not completely reliable when planning operations

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/3/2016 7:52:36 AM >

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(in reply to warspite1)

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