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Any advice - 3/21/2016 8:05:26 PM

bosbes

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Any advice on how to advance without getting slaugthered? Whatever I do, I always get hammered when approaching the enemy....

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RE: Any advice - 3/21/2016 8:39:19 PM

Gerry4321

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Can you give an example of a scenario where this happened?

Normally approach via cover/hindrance of some kinds. Rout back into Woods etc when broken where you have a leader to rally troops. Consider using assault movement (one hex). Try and use fire bases to hurt the defenders if possible first.

(in reply to bosbes)

Post #: 2

RE: Any advice - 3/21/2016 9:37:55 PM

DoubleDeuce

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Probably sounds 'cliche' but use some units to provide cover fire to suppress the enemy while the others advance. Try to get into position where you only have one open hex to cross and assault move into that hex during the movement phase (move one unit at a time to avoid losing a stack). If you decide to move follow on units into the same hex, the residual firepower may be there but will be less than the original enemy attack so should be easier to survive. Then use the advance phase to move out of the open into the nearest covered hex.

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RE: Any advice - 3/22/2016 5:20:15 AM

genesismwt

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Ditto to all of the above. Also, move with a plan. Be prepared for some broken or destroyed units. Make some offers that can't be refused. Make your first moves with an eye to draw fire so your more important moves in the turn can be made without being fired upon. Moving in the open, or moving adjacent is sure to draw fire.

Good luck with your gaming.

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Post #: 4

RE: Any advice - 3/23/2016 4:32:12 AM

parusski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoe ist?

Any advice on how to advance without getting slaugthered? Whatever I do, I always get hammered when approaching the enemy....

Do not move in stacks. One lucky shot from the enemy can wipe out everything in that stack.

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Post #: 5

RE: Any advice - 4/6/2016 7:33:31 PM

bosbes

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Will need this advice because so far advancing in the open is a sure bet for getting wiped out. Getting a lot of units 'broken'. Don't know what to do. I always like to play the side that has to attack/advance. Don't see much fun in defending, so maybe I'm chosing the difficult approach in learning to play this game.

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Post #: 6

RE: Any advice - 4/6/2016 8:43:45 PM

idjester

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watch some videos of gameplay, this will help understand the general concepts... Look at the matrixgames youtube channel or my channel for videos.

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Post #: 7

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM

UP844

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Or read this article about ASL tactics (most of which work fine in TotH too

).

< Message edited by UP844 -- 4/7/2016 12:18:51 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 2:15:34 AM

Gerry4321

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I played 6. Battle of the Lastekodum�gi as the Russians. Tons of troops to move across open ground and grain. Had 4 x T-34s and OBA.

Started off by running up a squad. Not so good. Jerry has MMGs on the hills. So I realized I had time (7 turns) so I used Assault Movement and Advance to get me 2 hexes with everyone else in Turn 1. Plus I had one unit per hex so a big shot was only going to hurt one squad. Then moved the Tanks forward and broke some of his units with Tanks and OBA. Then I used double time on the units for the other turns. Working out very well.

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RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 10:02:14 AM

UP844

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Before making the first move, look at the victory conditions, at the terrain and at the forces available. The latter might require a bit of reconnaissance (i.e. sending out some units to take enemy fire).

This is how I played the Russians in "Battle of the Lastekodum�gi".

The Russians have the advantage of knowing most of the enemy force from the start, so consider the strength and weaknesses of each side:
- The Russians have plenty of infantry, armor support and 2 OBA modules ("Artillery is the God of War"

); the T-34s, however, are vulnerable to the German AT Gun, and the infantry has to cross a plain with large grain fields (with provide no hindrance against MG fire from higher elevation) to come into range.
- The Germans have a thin line of fortified positions manned by elite infantry with LATWs and MGs, a decent AT gun and a OBA module.

Initially, the most dangerous German assets are the AT Gun (which will prevent the T-34 from providing support) and the OBA (which can kill scores of infantry in the open/grain), so the two OBA are aimed at eliminating (or at least suppressing) them. Once these two targets are neutralised, OBA fire will shift to German HMG/MMG positions and T-34s will surge forward (staying outside of LATW range).

A linear attack against a linear defense means giving the enemy exactly the battle he is prepared for, and this is to be avoided at all costs. An enveloping maneuver is much more attractive. In the south, the German line is more distant from the Russian positions and there is little cover. The grain fields on the north side of the map, conversely, provide some cover; moreover, this line of approach is far enough from German MMG/HMGs that moving (instead of Assault moving) does not necessarily imply a massacre of Russian units. Once the German northern flank is gone, the assault force will turn south and attack the German line from the flank/rear. The rest of the Russian forces will Assault Move/Advance, laying harassing fire on the Germans.

The plan worked fine: OBA eliminated the German AT Gun, so the T-34s came forward to eliminate the Radio and the MG positions; the flanking force came down from the north and the scenario ended with many German squads eliminated due to failure to rout.

< Message edited by UP844 -- 4/7/2016 6:27:09 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 6:07:43 PM

bosbes

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Thanks for the advice. Wil try again!

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Post #: 11

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 7:39:26 PM

altipueri

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It is bit of a game for lawyers and bean counters really. Take this from the linked help article in post 8:

""Think about this. Two standard 4-4-7 squads DFFing together is an 8FP column attack. If you non-assault move into a wooden building you could say you're asking for an NMC couldn't you?

How do I figure that? 8FP + 2 TEM -1 NAM = 8FP with + 1 modifier. So, if they roll a "7" � best odds � then 7FP +1 on the 8 IFT column is an NMC. And you are rolling for the difference between being ok, and being routed.

OK, you say - if they roll a 7, I can too. Yes � but when you roll a 7 in response, your 7-4-7 is a pinned unit. In fact, out of 36 possible rolls, 6 say you are pinned, and 15 say you are broken, meaning 21 out of 36 chances that your Advancing Fire is worthless! ""

If you can out lawyer your opponent and talk in TLA (three letter acronyms) you win.

The biggest advance I've had to understanding this game is realising that whereas in other games if you hold fire or hide in a building you are unseen and can ambush the enemy but in this game you have to stay behind the building to be unseen.

(in reply to bosbes)

Post #: 12

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 8:10:04 PM

UP844

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List of the abbreviations used in ASL.

Another essay about basic infantry tactics in ASL (with much less use of ASL abbreviations

).

Abbreviations used in the two linked documents about tactics:

DFFing = performing Defensive First Fire
FP = FirePower
TEM = Terrain Effect Modifier
NAM = Non-Assault Modifier
IFT = Infantry Fire Table
NMC = Non-modified Morale Check
MMC = Multi-Man Counter (Squads/Half-Squads/Crews)
DRM = Dice Roll Modifier
2MC = Morale Check with "+2" DRM

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Post #: 13

RE: Any advice - 4/7/2016 9:49:03 PM

Gerry4321

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I agree about the concealment issue but not the lawyer one.

Every game system has some calculation to do combat. Knowing the numbers just help you make tactical decisions.

Even the vaunted Combat Missions has to have some system. They and their fans claim that every bullet is tracked. No dice. But how do they know if the bullet or shell strikes the target? There has to be some number used.

quote:

ORIGINAL: altipueri

It is bit of a game for lawyers and bean counters really. Take this from the linked help article in post 8:

""Think about this. Two standard 4-4-7 squads DFFing together is an 8FP column attack. If you non-assault move into a wooden building you could say you're asking for an NMC couldn't you?

How do I figure that? 8FP + 2 TEM -1 NAM = 8FP with + 1 modifier. So, if they roll a "7" � best odds � then 7FP +1 on the 8 IFT column is an NMC. And you are rolling for the difference between being ok, and being routed.

OK, you say - if they roll a 7, I can too. Yes � but when you roll a 7 in response, your 7-4-7 is a pinned unit. In fact, out of 36 possible rolls, 6 say you are pinned, and 15 say you are broken, meaning 21 out of 36 chances that your Advancing Fire is worthless! ""

If you can out lawyer your opponent and talk in TLA (three letter acronyms) you win.

The biggest advance I've had to understanding this game is realising that whereas in other games if you hold fire or hide in a building you are unseen and can ambush the enemy but in this game you have to stay behind the building to be unseen.

(in reply to altipueri)

Post #: 14

RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 12:54:38 AM

DamienThompson

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Hi All,

Here are the sort of tactics I have found useful in both TOTH and ASL. Divide the game up into stages. Looking at the distance you have to travel as the attacker and the number of turns you have will give you a good idea of how fast you need to travel. Generally a game can be broken up into stages such as.

Advance to Contact.
The goal here is to cross the empty space and make contact with the opposing forces. Due to the nature of the game defensive fire will probably cause some sort of casualties. Try to obtain good observation posts to scout probable locations. Use low value assets to draw fire to reveal enemy forces. Then your main force can move more safely.

The Firefight.
Aim for overwhelming superiority against a small portion of the enemy line. Designate part of your force as the firepower element and another part the assault element. The firepower guys need to break key enemy units and make a keyhole in the enemy line for the assault units to advance into. Priority should be given to breaking key enemy leaders (radios) or key support weapons first. Make sure you are aware of the optimal placement of troops to get an advantage over the enemy. Eg Russians will probably try to get into a closer range battle than the Germans. Be aware of the basic idea of how much firepower generates a �decent shot.� Against troops in open ground a single squad is enough to generate a fairly decent shot. In light cover you will probably need 2 squads. In heavy cover you will probably need three squads to generate a decent chance of getting a good result. On average it takes 2-3 decent attacks per enemy hex to break the defenders. The problem with stacking 3 squads in the same hex when attacking heavy defensive terrain is you also stand to lose more if the enemy return fire gets lucky. Generally speaking against heavy cover 1 big attack by three squads is more effective than 3 individual attacks by one squad. In the open this rule reverses.

Infiltration & Encirclement.
Just relying on firefights will result in the enemy breaking, rallying and coming back. The way to permanently break an enemy line is to cut off rout paths and eliminate the broken units. Depending on the terrain this could mean flanking units or assault units to push straight through the middle and surround the broken units. Remember a broken unit cannot rout towards known enemy units. Getting a squad or AFV behind the lines can turn a broken unit into a dead unit.

Other points.
One of the tactics that can turn a battle your way is controlling your casualties. In a lot of situations leaders are better off rallying troops than assisting fire. When planning an assault draw fire with low value units before moving the key assault units in for the kill. Position your leaders just behind the assault at spots the broken attackers will flee to. This way your broken units will be back in the fight next turn. Move the assault units individually and use different paths of approach to minimize residual fire that your troops must advance into. Another example of this is drawing fire from AT guns with infantry assaults before moving tanks into the line of fire.

Damo

< Message edited by DamienThompson -- 4/8/2016 12:57:55 AM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)

Post #: 15

RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 1:32:16 AM

genesismwt

Posts: 176
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From: The middle of flyover country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DamienThompson

Hi All,

Here are the sort of tactics I have found useful in both TOTH and ASL. Divide the game up into stages. Looking at the distance you have to travel as the attacker and the number of turns you have will give you a good idea of how fast you need to travel. Generally a game can be broken up into stages such as.

Advance to Contact.
The goal here is to cross the empty space and make contact with the opposing forces. Due to the nature of the game defensive fire will probably cause some sort of casualties. Try to obtain good observation posts to scout probable locations. Use low value assets to draw fire to reveal enemy forces. Then your main force can move more safely.

The Firefight.
Aim for overwhelming superiority against a small portion of the enemy line. Designate part of your force as the firepower element and another part the assault element. The firepower guys need to break key enemy units and make a keyhole in the enemy line for the assault units to advance into. Priority should be given to breaking key enemy leaders (radios) or key support weapons first. Make sure you are aware of the optimal placement of troops to get an advantage over the enemy. Eg Russians will probably try to get into a closer range battle than the Germans. Be aware of the basic idea of how much firepower generates a �decent shot.� Against troops in open ground a single squad is enough to generate a fairly decent shot. In light cover you will probably need 2 squads. In heavy cover you will probably need three squads to generate a decent chance of getting a good result. On average it takes 2-3 decent attacks per enemy hex to break the defenders. The problem with stacking 3 squads in the same hex when attacking heavy defensive terrain is you also stand to lose more if the enemy return fire gets lucky. Generally speaking against heavy cover 1 big attack by three squads is more effective than 3 individual attacks by one squad. In the open this rule reverses.

Infiltration & Encirclement.
Just relying on firefights will result in the enemy breaking, rallying and coming back. The way to permanently break an enemy line is to cut off rout paths and eliminate the broken units. Depending on the terrain this could mean flanking units or assault units to push straight through the middle and surround the broken units. Remember a broken unit cannot rout towards known enemy units. Getting a squad or AFV behind the lines can turn a broken unit into a dead unit.

Other points.
One of the tactics that can turn a battle your way is controlling your casualties. In a lot of situations leaders are better off rallying troops than assisting fire. When planning an assault draw fire with low value units before moving the key assault units in for the kill. Position your leaders just behind the assault at spots the broken attackers will flee to. This way your broken units will be back in the fight next turn. Move the assault units individually and use different paths of approach to minimize residual fire that your troops must advance into. Another example of this is drawing fire from AT guns with infantry assaults before moving tanks into the line of fire.

Damo

Well stated. That's one helluva first post!

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Mike

(in reply to DamienThompson)

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RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 9:04:07 AM

altipueri

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You can buy the ASL rule manual for $80 - I gather it runs to over 600 pages.

You have to be pretty lawyer like to get a grip on that for a game that takes about 3 hours to do 20 minutes of small unit combat.

600 pages is more than the Dutch national tax code (whereas the British has blossomed to over 20,000) - but that's for debate in a forum that's too close to work. I play wargames so I can blow stuff up - it's so therapeutic.

By the way, I actually prefer the earlier Combat Mission games - and keep some old XP laptops going so that I can fire up old games.

TOTH has a more chess like aspects to it than many games - and the output of scenarios will be great.

PS - good post by Damien Thompson - thank you for those tips.

(in reply to Gerry4321)

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RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 9:43:09 AM

UP844

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@Damien Thompson: a great first post indeed!

I think it should be added to the game manual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: altipueri

You can buy the ASL rule manual for $80 - I gather it runs to over 600 pages.

Without acronyms, it would be 2 or 3 times longer

.

< Message edited by UP844 -- 4/8/2016 10:34:37 AM >

(in reply to altipueri)

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RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 2:56:47 PM

baloo7777

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Thanks guys! Great posts here!

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RE: Any advice - 4/8/2016 10:39:41 PM

waltero

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I suggest going with Multiplayer (teamviewer)to learn the game.

< Message edited by waltero -- 4/8/2016 10:42:19 PM >

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