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North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 2:54:34 AM

John 3rd

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OK. I took everyone's advice on the U-Boats book request. Now I would like to ask for a good history of the entire North Africa Campaign. I've got the whole 'An Army at Dawn' set but would like something more on the earlier phases of the Campaign.

THANKS!

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 6:43:54 AM

Peever

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I've got "The Phantom Army of Alamein: How the Camouflage Unit and Operation Bertram Hoodwinked Rommel" by Rick Stroud on my to read/listen list. It looks like an interesting read and has decent reviews on Audible.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 6:55:26 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

OK. I took everyone's advice on the U-Boats book request. Now I would like to ask for a good history of the entire North Africa Campaign. I've got the whole 'An Army at Dawn' set but would like something more on the earlier phases of the Campaign.

THANKS!

warspite1

I have never read - or heard - of a one volume account of the North African Campaign. I believe Alan Moorehead did a 3-volume series of North Africa 1940-43 but I could not personally vouch for it.

My knowledge of the campaign came initially through Purnell's Encyclopedia of the Second World War - you could do worse than try and can track down a second hand set of those beauties. Other than that it has been a case of buying individual books to drill down further such as:

- The Osprey Campaign Series - various titles such as Operation Compass Gazala, Crusader, Tobruk, El-Alamein etc
- Siege Malta 1940-43
- England's Last War Against France (inc Catapult and Exporter (Syria))
- The Lost Battle: Crete 1941
- Massacre at Tobruk (special ops raid)
- The War In the Mediterranean (naval war)
- Somerville's Force H (naval war)
- The Struggle for the Middle Sea (naval war)

And of course the Blair volumes you have bought will also provide some detail on U-boar operations in the Mediterranean too.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/5/2016 7:14:36 AM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 9:03:53 AM

JeffroK

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Online
The Aussie, Enzed Official histories plus the first 2 volumes of the British History.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/ETO/Africa/index.html

Alan Moorehead's books/trilogy are good, not hard core.

The Desert Generals by Corelli Barnett.

Lots of books on campaigns, "Compass", Crusader, Tobruk, Gazala & Alamein. It was a campaign of stops & starts.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 1:39:28 PM

Encircled

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Alan Moreheads "The Desert War" is good

Good trilogy by Barrie Pitt "The Crucible of War"

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 2:08:28 PM

cohimbra

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From italian point of view, and I think only in italian language, you can find it in military library edited by FF.AA.:

Montanari M., Le operazioni in A.S. - I - Sidi el Barrani;
Montanari M., Le operazioni in A.S. - II - Tobruk;
Montanari M., Le operazioni in A.S. - III - El Alamein;
Montanari M., Le operazioni in A.S. - IV - Enfidaville.

A.S. = Africa Settentrionale = Northern Africa

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 4/5/2016 2:21:20 PM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 3:34:23 PM

John 3rd

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Thanks guys./

OK. Lets look at specific campaigns like Crusader, any of Rommels, and something on the Invasion of Greece--North Africa Campaign.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 3:56:02 PM

Big B

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In a single volume:

The Battle for North Africa 1940 - 1943, Jackson (1975) - Amazon

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 4:12:14 PM

John 3rd

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COOL!

My interest in the U-Boats and North Africa stems from reading Military Errors of World War Two. I would describe it as high quality 'potty' reading.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 5:16:16 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

In a single volume:

The Battle for North Africa 1940 - 1943, Jackson (1975) - Amazon

Thanks Brian. Will look into that one.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/5/2016 8:35:09 PM

Dili

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Without sources from the other side or even better sources that have input from both sides is more or less just knowing one side. I don't find that satisfactory.

For Crusader you will probably get more at this website The Crusader Project link is https://rommelsriposte.com/

< Message edited by Dili -- 4/5/2016 8:37:13 PM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/7/2016 11:15:48 PM

JeffroK

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Dili, please suggest some options.

The only decent book I found in English was about the Guastatori(Engineer?) Bn of Folgore.

Bayerlein also covers his involvement in his book.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/9/2016 2:20:09 AM

rustysi

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I do vaguely recall reading something years ago on North Africa. Didn't The Rommel Papers have it in there? Been so long I can't remember, not even sure of the name of the book. If I'm right you'd have something from the Axis side.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/9/2016 10:28:46 AM

Dili

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JeffK unfortunatley there isn't much that presents both sides for land combat or an overall look, but that is true for many combats in WW2, for example without that japanese person Taki we would know much less about Japanese army... There are air combat books with both sides - Some Shores and Malizia and the Desert Prelude 1 and Desert Prelude 2 from June 1940 to operation Compass for air war. There is O'Hara about Naval combat, but on land just some recent very limited Osprey's. Most i know about the theatre is because i can read English and Italian. For a generic look you might get better just following wikipedia.
For example the Italian air force history of WW2 by Santoro is available free online is the ideal source for statistical proposes but it is in Italian.

PS:Guastatori are assault engineers.

Edit: Santoro book( 2 volumes) it is probably not too difficult to read the charts.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/libri/libri.asp

>By Avia> A> Aeronautica Italiana nella Seconda Guerra Mondiale

2 volumes in PDF be warned that each is around 160mb.

< Message edited by Dili -- 4/9/2016 10:33:52 AM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/9/2016 11:32:02 AM

Andreas1968

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Hi, I run the Crusader Project.

I wouldn't trust Bayerlein further than I can throw The Rommel Papers. Kriebel is a very good source on the battle from the German side, and available in English. He was the Ia in 15th Panzer during the battle.

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-The-Afrika-Korps-1941-1942/dp/1853673226

I obviously have a ton of stuff related to the battle on the site, but no overarching narrative, yet.

All the best

Andreas

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/9/2016 11:43:50 AM

Andreas1968

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This should also be helpful:

http://tothosewhoserved.org/

All the best

Andreas

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 1:39:20 AM

JeffroK

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Thanks for the links, I've downloaded a couple of the books in Italian, I forsee 12 mths of my standard of translation.

Why the lack of Italian history converted to English?
If there is a belief the Italian Army got bad publicity why not try to correct it.??

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 2:01:45 AM

Alfred

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British/American publishers are not interested in incurring the extra costs of translating foreign language non-fiction works. They only translate foreign work which they believe will appeal to the mass market. So foreign fiction, especially of a well known writer, might be translated but academic foreign work is not seen to be profitable.

Alfred

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 3:03:36 AM

rustysi

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quote:

I wouldn't trust Bayerlein further than I can throw The Rommel Papers

Would someone care to expand on this statement. Was The Rommel Papers that bad of a book? I mean I read it some 40 years ago, but don't recall any glaring errors.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 7:59:20 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

British/American publishers are not interested in incurring the extra costs of translating foreign language non-fiction works.� They only translate foreign work which they believe will appeal to the mass market.� So foreign fiction, especially of a well known writer, might be translated but academic foreign work is not seen to be profitable.

Alfred

What about an Italian Publisher?

Therefore there should be no complaint of an "Allied perspective"

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 5:15:37 PM

Andreas1968

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I wouldn't trust Bayerlein further than I can throw The Rommel Papers

Would someone care to expand on this statement. Was The Rommel Papers that bad of a book? I mean I read it some 40 years ago, but don't recall any glaring errors.

Just as an example, Bayerlein claims that half of the Panzer III in North Africa were still equipped with the 37mm gun.

He claims that the British left column forced back Ariete at Bir el Gobi (nothing could be further from the truth)

he claims that after the breakout from Tobruk the Germans restored the position.

Etc.etc.

All the best

Andreas

< Message edited by Andreas1968 -- 4/10/2016 5:17:21 PM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 4/10/2016 10:29:21 PM

spence

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I'd recommend "The Battle for North Africa 1940-43" by W.G.F Jackson along with "The Desert Generals" by Correlli Barnett. The former also details the campaigns in Ethiopia, the Levant and the Middle East in general and integrates them into the North African Campaign. The latter speaks in greater detail to the personalities involved and British Army politics. Both are good reads.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 1:35:18 AM

John 3rd

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Echoing my Post on U-Boats, I just completed Jackson's above book. It was excellent.

Am 2/3 of the way through the Day of Battle and it is magnificent.

Thanks again for the choices guys!

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 2:34:49 PM

BBfanboy

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IMO the North Africa campaign hinged on the fate of Malta, so in addition to reading up on the land battles you must read about the convoys to Malta, the air defence of Malta, and the raiding of Axis supply lines by the subs and surface forces at Malta. Rommel's successes coincided with Malta's misfortunes and his retreats were directly due to lack of supply because of the raiders at Malta.

Malta Convoy convers a single convoy battle but what a battle it was! Heavy losses and heroic actions on the Allied side to get a few pitiful ships through and keep Malta in the war. The men of tanker Ohio should have all received medals. Stirring read that brings out the desperation, bravery and sacrifice.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 3:35:36 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

IMO the North Africa campaign hinged on the fate of Malta, so in addition to reading up on the land battles you must read about the convoys to Malta, the air defence of Malta, and the raiding of Axis supply lines by the subs and surface forces at Malta. Rommel's successes coincided with Malta's misfortunes and his retreats were directly due to lack of supply because of the raiders at Malta.

Malta Convoy convers a single convoy battle but what a battle it was! Heavy losses and heroic actions on the Allied side to get a few pitiful ships through and keep Malta in the war. The men of tanker Ohio should have all received medals. Stirring read that brings out the desperation, bravery and sacrifice.

warspite1

Not according to O'Hara. The amount of supplies (men and material) that didn't get through to North Africa was not that great. The problem was more to do with the amount of reinforcements and supplies available to Rommel rather than the amount lost. Remember too there was the problem of getting supplies from Tripoli and other ports to the front. Plus of course there is Rommel's inability to realise his situation..... or, if he did, to ignore it.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/3/2016 5:59:19 PM >

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 9:23:01 PM

Dili

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North African campaign hinged in the shear distance with one coastal road. Those that had industrial backbone to supply it will win: that mean air and naval superiority and many trucks and fuel. Transporting it to Africa was the least of the problems. They needed to transport it at least to Tobruk not Tripoli and then continue to supply it along the coast- But Axis never properly dominated Tobruk by air, sea.

The Axis - more precisely Italy- didn't had enough production of any of that. Worse Mussolini wasted trucks to Soviet Union invasion.

For the distances keep this in mind:

Warsaw to Moscow with several roads, several rails heads 1000km

Benghazi(not even Tripoli) to Cairo: 1000km - only one coastal road, no rail. Desert, no rivers, no cities, so no energy, no workshops even the more simple ones, no food , almost nothing to take. Everthing except some oasis water, needs to be transported.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 9:45:29 PM

warspite1

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That is what I said above. This is one of the reasons why I do not agree with O'Hara's view of the Regia Marina's (RM) performance in WWII (although of course had Rommel acted more in accord with his circumstances, and the wishes of his superiors, only being able to get supplies to Tripoli would have been less of an issue).

The RM/Regia Aeronautica needed to be more aggressive (and the UK's decision to try and keep Malta in the war allowed this on Italian terms i.e. the Commonwealth forces had to enter Italian dominated waters). An early victory against an overstretched Royal Navy (RN) could have seen the RN with no choice but to withdraw, allowing the possibility for the Italians to use the ports of Benghazi or Tobruk for at least some of their supplies.

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RE: North Africa Campaign Book - 7/3/2016 9:49:19 PM

geofflambert