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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G

 
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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/7/2016 8:53:36 AM   
sillyflower


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From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Charlie

Whilst you are correct in theory, I hava said before that I was a lawyer so I like boring - when I'm on the defensive anyway

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/10/2016 9:17:53 PM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		T34 and it's now February.
Losses at turn start were a mere 12.6K t0 4.7K Russians - the lowest yet as Brian's O pretty much grinds to a halt .He did howver try his hand at airbase and HQ bombing (allowed in this game) so air losses were a better 6G to 48R.

Near Moscow, the Wehrmacht starts to shrug off the cold by launching a small offensive northwards to catch some Russians who were getting careless about flank security




I tried to do some in picture text but mis-typed . Should be 4 divs in the pocket + 1 tk x

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/10/2016 9:26:23 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/10/2016 9:27:03 PM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		The other area where life stirs is just north of the Crimea




As our gallant Rumanian and Slovak allies advance as best they can, units from 1st Pz army form up near Z town in preparation for an offensive to cut off and destroy those Bolsheviks who boldly advanced where no Russian should have advanced. The East flank of his advance is all clear terrain to it makes more sense to start here rather that at Nikolaev. Also, I hope that being slightly further away will increase the chances of achieving operational surprise.

Preparations have been somewhat hampered by the increased costs of railing units under .08 so only half the army is available for use next turn, but more will arrive next week. I have no idea what forces are in the area of the 3 crossing into the Crimea because I did not want to risk tipping him off about what I'm planning. The 2 options are either to go south and straight over the Sivash to Dzhanoy, or else to close up to the crossing point but then head west to cut off any retreat back into the Crimea. The soviet rail head is only at the hex between Armyansk and Kalanchak, so most of his troops will have a long march to reach it.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/12/2017 9:23:27 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/12/2016 9:30:57 PM   
sillyflower


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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/12/2016 9:55:01 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/12/2016 9:33:57 PM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		T35 and the game tempo starts to warm up a bit in the deep south, even if the weather has not, as my blizzard O kicks off. I was relieved to see that Brian had not legged it back to the Crimea. He has since told me that his recce did not see anything. 'YEEEEE HAW!' I think the expression is, though no doubt Hitman will be able to correct y'all if I have mis-spelt it.




We reach the entrance to the Crimea despite the best efforts of an inf xx which XXX Panzer xxx had to chase all the way down the railroad. Most of the communists north of the Crimea will struggle to get back in time as they are too far from a friendly rail hex. Our Gallant Rumanian allies plant themselves on their foes wherever possible in order to slow any retreat ( I MP to leave a ZOC and his units will have kept more fatigue and will probably have fewer MPs as well.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/12/2016 10:03:55 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/12/2016 9:52:43 PM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		Thoughts on T35

Losses at start of turn were 15K to 12K, but 2.3K to 29.4K in turn thanks to clearing out the pocket of 5 divs and 1 brigade just N of Moscow.

Nothing else happened elsewhere except that in the Russian T34 the magnificent 12 Pz slaughters another 2,000 Bolsheviks for the loss of only 35 men. Not to be outdone, 6 inf xx 2 hexes SE of Moscow survives 9 ground and air attacks, losing only 613 men for 4.7K Russians.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/12/2016 11:54:24 PM   
shermanny

 

Posts: 1624
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		The current game engine makes the Germans very powerful. I tried a H2H of Kursk43 wearing both hats so to speak, and the Germans were able to make insane gains on turn 1 and eventually convert that into a pocket with several divisions. There's just no relation to history. (Historically, the Germans got stood up just about at the start line in the North, and made quite limited gains in the South which, after 2 weeks, were seen as insufficient for the price. The attack was wound down and the Germans pulled back to their start lines.

You have been fortunate in catching the ebb and flow of German relative power at high tide, right in time for a blowout 1942 summer campaign. With the situation you'd achieved already, a win would have been likely in any case, but this figures to make it rather a parade than a war.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 7:56:09 AM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		I agree that .08 is far too pro-German. It makes it too difficult for the Russians to have any sort of offensive until units on both sides have much more equal morale. Reining back the current counter-attack/withdrawl problem will improve things greatly. A shame as otherwise >08 improved the game a lot but I have high hopes of .09 from what Morvael has posted. I still think that the full fat blizzard rule should become the norm again though to re-balance '42

I have another game as Russians lined up but we are not starting until .09 is out.

In terms of this game, I would like some credit for my summer O as that was done under .07 which did not do the LW any favours .

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 9:23:17 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Status: offline 		Nope, the net of .08 is pro-soviet, the selected evidence you have presented, ie, brian fighting forward has ignored the sov strengths.

go ahead, ask me why. or don't if i'm too much of a threat to your status. Whew, charlie that was unnecessary, yeah, yeah, i know, fun anyway. let's see.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 10:26:08 AM   
sillyflower


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Status: offline 		I would never claimed that a single game can allow for definitive general pronouncements and I think I said as much at the start of this AAR

My other (Russian) game is a currently in Jan '41 with essentially the same HRs as in this game. .08 makes it impossible to have a half decent blizzard O even though I have a very strong Russian army after and hardly any lost factories. I do know how to do a good blizzard O even with a mild winter as many opponents can testify. However in both games since the new patch every R attack against Germans, and sometimes vs the weaker allies, ends up with a c/attack or withdraw result. This massively changes the ratio of losses. German losses are now so low that they will be OP'd in '42. My opinion therefore derives from playing both sides, although only in the early game.

Your experience is always very welcome Charlie. The more evidence there is, as opposed to mere assertion, the better any further changes will be. If you can show that I'm wrong, maybe Shermanny will have to give me more of the credit if/when I beat Brian.............. and that would hardly be a threat to my status

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 10:52:20 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Status: offline 		Silly, you are correct about the losses. I offered and offered and offered evidence from AI games and got ZERO takers, plenty of "AI doesn't count" type remarks. My hvh games now are password protected and you may not have my password. Thank you.

Since you didn't bother to ask, as I suspected, I will answer, briefly anyway. The sov strength, '41, defensive strength that is, is in DISTANCE. The sov objective for blizzard "O" is to increase the combat power of the army, as in 18 gds cav xxx and about 60 gd rd, with many more eligible. That is success enough because you can now deal well with the '42 axis panzer ball. Then the sov may take the initiative in winter 42.

Yes the remark about status was out of line, but, I don't care. Have at me, and don't forget all your pals.

I do realize that when you say "I agree that .08 is far to pro-German" you really mean something else, more nuanced I think they say, some such baloney.

< Message edited by charlie0311 -- 4/13/2016 10:53:59 AM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 11:30:55 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Status: offline 		ps, there is a nice "super gamey" trick now available to the sov player. I will leave it to the resident geniuses to find.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 12:45:35 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

ps, there is a nice "super gamey" trick now available to the sov player. I will leave it to the resident geniuses to find.

Not interested in finding tx if it amounts to what I have termed as unacceptable in a thread I started a while back about what was acceptable - at that time in the context of nt killing surrounded russian units.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 12:49:02 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

My hvh games now are password protected and you may not have my password. Thank you.



You can present info from your games without giving away your password - indeed rather more effectively


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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 1:00:52 PM   
timmyab

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
In terms of this game, I would like some credit for my summer O as that was done under .07 which did not do the LW any favours .

I think 8.07 was probably easier overall for the Axis player during the 41 summer campaign than 8.08. Either way you deserve credit for basically demolishing an experienced Soviet player.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 1:03:38 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

The sov strength, '41, defensive strength that is, is in DISTANCE. The sov objective for blizzard "O" is to increase the combat power of the army, as in 18 gds cav xxx and about 60 gd rd, with many more eligible. That is success enough because you can now deal well with the '42 axis panzer ball. Then the sov may take the initiative in winter 42.


I do realize that when you say "I agree that .08 is far to pro-German" you really mean something else, more nuanced I think they say, some such baloney.


1 Distances have not changed and the German can get further than many think under current version using basic techniques of being careful with MPs, judicious use of HQBU and air resupply. No hint of any exploit needed which is just as well because I don't know any. I have not started a game under .08 so I don't know what difference the reduction in G trucks makes so I may be missing something.

Objective of blizzard O has to be to weaken the Nazi's ability to do a decisive '42 O. That means weakening the Wehrmacht which of course also means strengthening the Soviet ability to defend in '42. The reduced effectiveness of soviet attacks I mentioned mean that increasing soviet offensive power eg with cav xxx is not as useful as it was.

I meant what I said about .08. Why would I do otherwise ?

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 1:05:56 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I think 8.07 was probably easier overall for the Axis player during the 41 summer campaign than 8.08. Either way you deserve credit for basically demolishing an experienced Soviet player.


If you have done both, I must defer. I don't think that any current AAR started with .08 but they don't say either way.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/13/2016 1:09:02 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 1:16:49 PM   
charlie0311

 

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Status: offline 		Interesting that when timmy speaks no remarks about "mere assertions" and demand for evidence.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 1:22:46 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
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Status: offline 		maybe he made the "de riguer" gesture of credit to the mighty, you beat a good player, and yes you did, a good player who made a poor choice, fighting forward, maybe that has something to do with distance? Don't use exploits either, didn't seem to bother my opponent any when I hinted enough for him to find it.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 3:23:30 PM   
RKhan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
In terms of this game, I would like some credit for my summer O as that was done under .07 which did not do the LW any favours .


Your summer O is high on my reading list. Especially as I spent my first ever game trying to work out the same offence you did in the south, only to later see how you did it better.


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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 6:04:52 PM   
HITMAN202


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Status: offline 		A potpouri of comments and a question.

1) You will always be a lawyer. You can't divorce yourself from the influence of your professional education on how you think and reason.

2) Dull and defensive ?? Ney my friend. You wit is a rapier.

3) What factors lead you to air supply in the winter turns ???

4) Matrix needs to hire you as the WITE poster boy. A little makeup (or a wig) could alter a Dan Aykroyd look-a-like.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 7:57:44 PM   
Northern Star


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Status: offline 		I don't agree that 1.08.08 is pro-German, I think the Soviets are able to make a high cv defensive line and also counterattack in summer 41.
See the cv of Soviet units in turn 5 in this screenshot, and let me know...






Attachment (1)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPV9JWWtOQ0

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 9:10:25 PM   
sillyflower


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From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		If russian morale is higher in '41 under .08, you and Charlie have a good point. Is it? You could get these CVs from high quality russian units before .08 and it would be more useful to have this shot taken from the Soviet side. FOW can be very misleading in all versions.

.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/13/2016 9:29:38 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

A potpouri of comments and a question.

1) You will always be a lawyer. You can't divorce yourself from the influence of your professional education on how you think and reason.

2) Dull and defensive ?? Ney my friend. You wit is a rapier.

3) What factors lead you to air supply in the winter turns ???

4) Matrix needs to hire you as the WITE poster boy. A little makeup (or a wig) could alter a Dan Aykroyd look-a-like.


1 I took to the law because I already thought analytically and logically. I always described my original degree in experimental psychology as 'torturing rats and humans' so being a lawyer was little different: though done more politely.

2 I try. People often tell me that I am trying anyway. To quote the late, great Bob Monkhouse "people laughed at me when I said that I wanted to be a comedian. They're not laughing now".

3 Same as any other turn really. Fuel to any unit that needs with priority for those most likely to need it next turn. Supplies only to units very low on supply/ammo unless they have moved to where they can't be attacked next turn.

4 The real SF is the glamorous and photogenic one.I'm photo phobic as it were except when being a lawyer when cameras never bothered me. NB unlike some doctors I know, I would need a haircut more than a wig

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/12/2017 9:33:51 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/15/2016 4:17:57 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		T36




Once again, ths Crimea is the focus of all the action. Lacking the forces this turn to try to break through at the eastern end, 18th Pz xx bravely closes the westernmost entry point to the Crimea, thereby cutting off all the communists who didn't make it back in time - about 8 xx and 6 x. It is bound to get isolated or routed in turn, but it's brave men know that they will suffer only minimal casualties if routed under .08 so they don't care. He won't be able to get much out before I reseal the pocket next turn.

A weak pz corps of 2 more divs arrives on the map ready to get stuck in next week, as does Model's elite 1st inf xxx (changed to a rather nasty green/brown colour to avoid getting muddled with 11th army). LW and Rumanian air assets also arrive as there are a lot of soviet airbases in the Crimea itself.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/15/2016 5:16:09 PM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/15/2016 5:07:26 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		Thoughts on T36.

Losses at turn start 19.1K G to 13.6K R. lot of soviet air activity, including a bit of futile airbase bombing so losses were 77 to 189.

In turn losses 3.3K to 14K, air 32 to 62. 4 russian units (1 inf x and 3 regts) were destroyed.

North of Moscow I finally remembered to relieve 12 Pz so hopefully 2 pz div will now get some morale-boosting target practice. I live in hope that during refit 12 Pz will get some decent tanks: it currently has T 38ts and Mk 1s which don't really go with it being the best unit on the map.

My blizzard O and prep for the snow O are badly hampered by the lack of RR capacity. I suspect that some reinforcement divisions will still be sitting on the western map edge until April, or possibly later, as I move from defensive to offensive posture. I even have 2 FBDs doing nothing as I cannot spare any trains to move them. Not a huge problem as there are few unconverted hexes apart from an unimportant patch or two in the middle of nowhere which the construction battalions are sorting out. NB whilst I have my whinges about .08, it is generally a very good thing IMHO and I do approve of the extra cost of moving units by rail.


< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/25/2016 11:29:20 AM >

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/15/2016 9:42:25 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
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Status: offline 		For FEb blizzard you are doing smashing as either way the Soviets are going to lose alot of troops and equipment by the crimea. Gonna be a rough 1942 for Brian

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/16/2016 7:57:56 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		I'm trying to make it a short summer for him but RL has slowed his turns a bit

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/16/2016 3:22:31 PM   
chaos45

 

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Status: offline 		As once u smash his units you are pocketing it doesnt look the units guarding the crimea are strong/well entrenched should should easily follow up with a breach in a turn or two.

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RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G - 4/16/2016 4:48:56 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Hello,
i am fairly new to WITE and have played some minor scenarios so far, but i have been following the AARs for a while already (they made me buy this game). Great AAR so far Flower, thx a lot!
Two questions: With which VC do you play (sry if i overread the information in the first post).
Which sense has the crimea operation of BrianG? Ingame (Stalin for sure thought different about this), the Blizzard should allow the russian player to prepare a good offensive position for 1942 (like reconquering the eastern bank of a great river)? But easiest way to defend crimea is on the land bridge (3 hexes)? And from a geometric point of view, the crimea attack force is very easy to cut of because you only need to block the 3 hexes and some harbours (don't yet know the details about harbours yet). So whats the sense of this operation which seems to be a waste of troops?

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