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AO will not totally refuel ships

 
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AO will not totally refuel ships - 4/6/2003 8:08:59 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I have an AO trailing a CV TF.

The CV ran short of fuel so I brought in the AO and tried to refuel.

But the AO held onto some fuel.

With "cargo fuel" of 6373 the AO refused to release any more fuel.

Is there a reason for this?
Post #: 1
- 4/6/2003 10:17:07 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		1000 Ops points worth of fuel per turn.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 2
- 4/7/2003 3:25:43 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE][I]From The Manual:[/I]

8.16 Refueling in Port and at Sea
...Whenever refueling at sea, the refueling ship (the one receiving fuel) will never receive more than 1/2 of the fuel it requires to bring it to full fuel capacity.[/QUOTE]I.e., you can't really "top off" if you're close to full.

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(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 3
- 4/7/2003 4:12:22 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		How do I know if a ship is "full"?

How do I know the fuel level of any ship? IE, given a fuel number, when should I plan on refuelling a ship?

This turn, next turn, or 3 turns time?

My ships run out of fuel because I have no idea how long it will be before I run out.

In this case the fuel level went from "red" to "red". How can I put fuel into the green?

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 4
- 4/7/2003 8:36:41 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]

In this case the fuel level went from "red" to "red". How can I put fuel into the green? [/B][/QUOTE]

Hit replenish tf at sea with the AO in the same hex until you either get to 1000 op points or show no increase in fuel being taken on.

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Post #: 5
- 4/8/2003 3:20:38 AM   
wobbly

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline 		Don't know if this is part of the answer you are fishing for but you know that replenishment at sea (from either a eplenishment tf or a another tf for that matter) only fill the bunkers of the ships half way??

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 6
- 4/8/2003 3:48:39 AM   
crsutton


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Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Don't forget that if you have some larger ships with green fuel level you can replinish your smaller ships withing the TF by clicking on the replinish button as well. The ships will transfer some fuel to the smaller ships at the cost of some OP points.

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Post #: 7
- 4/8/2003 4:27:49 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		The other point to not forget:

Have 1 AO/TK for each ship in the other TF, as refueling happens on a priority basis, unless there are enough AO/TK to go around.

Also Joe: re your red level to red level:

If the path programmed for the TF is beyond the fuel capabilities, it will still be red even after refueling. If you are dealing with a ship that goes 20 hexes on a full tank and you tell it to go 45 hexes round trip, it is going to be red even after you completely fuel it in hex 22, because even with the full tank, it still can't go that far. There are cases where you will need to keep the AO TF following the other TF to keep topping it up as it goes.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 8
- 4/8/2003 5:12:02 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Lets assume the tanks are empty. I shall now add some fuel. Why is the fuel level still in the red if the tanks are now half full?


And on another issue, lets assume the tanks are full. The numbers are green. I want the CV TF to sail 3 hexes. The next turn the numbers are red. They are out of fuel and aircraft won’t fly.

Why did the numbers turn red? How can I tell when they are about to turn red?

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 9
- 4/8/2003 6:30:36 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Planes flying off ships burn off fuel, more fuel depending on the mission. Is that what is pushing you to drink?

Obviously, with the USA CV's and their larger air wings, they dry up pretty quick! You'll be topping up active CV's pretty much every other turn if you are conducting bombing missions. The Lex is the worst, with tiny fuel tanks for the number of planes it carries. If you want to find out just how much gets eaten, ground all your planes for a turn of R&R and watch your fuel state then compare it to what you are seeing now.

This is one of the reasons I harped so much on them forcing CV's with no fuel to not fly aircraft. It just made no sense to have the aircraft drain your fuel to fly and then continue flying once you were out of fuel.

Historically, I believe most CV's had bombs/ammo and avgas/fuel for a couple of days operations. We tend to overuse them in UV a tad. WitP should be more interesting with replenishment ships.

Ships in a TF will auto-balance their fuel between other ships down to a certain percentage, You can see this happening when you start the turn and some ops points are already used up before you have done anything. If you only have a single AO trying to keep a CV TF running, you are fighting a loosing battle. It can not keep up with the speed that CV's flying aircraft can eat fuel unless you happen to be patrolling at a fixed location. You need more AO/TK in the refueling TF so more ops points are available to feed the pigs ;)

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 10
- 4/8/2003 6:54:32 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		To reword my question:

Currently the fuel level of my CV is “X”

Assume all aircraft have missions assigned.

The CV is moving just a few hexes around in circles to avoid enemy subs.

How many days before the CV needs to be refuelled?

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 11
- 4/8/2003 8:14:55 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Which CV Joe?

Also, are there smaller ships in the TF that are swiping fuel? (ie: DD's)

By air missions, bombardment or just cap/search?

It could be as bad as you NEVER getting enough fuel to you're good for a few days, lots of variables.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 12
- 4/8/2003 11:04:36 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		It’s a Japanese one.

But how does every body else do it?

I generally set up an AO TF and have it hovering around just behind the CV TF so that it is within easy reach.

I also have other AO TFs around the place in case my CV TF needs to quickly move somewhere and there will be an AO TF waiting nearby.

My tankers supply fuel to various out of the way places, then a TF can refuel from there if needed.

But when my CV has fuel in the green with a value of 3,000 units I cannot expect it to suddenly go into the red with –3,000 units.

Basically if my TF is near to running out of fuel I need a trigger as a reminder that I had better refuel in the next turn or so.

And every individual ship has a different trigger level. How can I find the trigger level?

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 13
- 4/8/2003 12:36:55 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		It's not that dramatic a drain with the Japan CV/CVL/CVE because they have much smaller airgroups boarded. Keep your eye on them and plan on a refill when they hit > 1500 (that should give you two days safety).

The USA CV's like the Lex are a lost cause, once she gets her plane count up, you can NEVER keep her fueled. Plan for 2 days on station then back for top ups then 2 days on station. Rotation will keep your ships filled up and you from the "oh crap! my planes are grounded!" situation.

Also keep in mind that other ships in the TF will steal fuel from the CV's to keep themselves running, which makes your CV problem worse. Try and pair up your escorts with good fuel tanks or throw in some CL/CA that have tons of fuel to spare as portable fuel bunkers.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 14
- 4/8/2003 9:30:40 PM   
djoosten

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 1/30/2003
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline 		Yeah dont try and use to much AO/TK to refuel your CV TF, you end up either to be stuck there for 2 turns, what is pretty much beeing sitting ducks for the enemy while he can either prepare to ambush you or strike while you are at it. If you wanna go far, dont take the CV's with low fuel capacity with you and you can pretty much go anywhere for a week or two. Depending also how much sorties your planes make you last longer or shorter.

For the US there are some very easy ways to have a lot of extra fuel with your, place all your larger CL's within the CV TF and you can go on for a very long time. Now dont click the button to refuel your TF, cause this will costs you more OPS points that i first though, and will actually degrade at least 1 CV fairly quickly after that, let it run itself, even if you see numbers like 6000 dont worry, it wont go down, it will refuel from the CL's next to them as they go to keep them on a good level and it seems that way no Ops points from the CV go away, only from the CL. This way and i did a few tests you can continue nonstop untill your CL's get dry. And after a two week raid all the way up to truk and back up and down his lines i returned with still fuel left for a week :)

A sample for a nice CV TF that can run very long and do a lot of strikes is 4 CV's, 6 large CL's, 4 CLAA's for nice AA guns (be aware these also dry out quick but they can safe your CV's from getting fried by Jap bombs. Along with that you put 8-10 DD's get the 560 AA class DD's so they add even more AA points to the TF and this is a darn hard fleet to even hit! (Yes i dont put any CA's in my CV TF's, just a waste of 8 inch guns where they are not needed :) Oh yeah the Australian CA's are nice though with 2pdr AA guns there far better then the 40 MM bofors :) Those the only i would even consider putting inthere.

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(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 15
- 4/9/2003 12:07:00 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Re-read Pages 31 and 32 of the Manual. Sections 8.15, 8.16, and 8.17 should answer the fueling and usage questions.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 16
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