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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 1:51:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

It would have been nice if one or two of those bomb hits were torpedo hits instead. What have you got in the way of ship killers? you don't what to waste strike aircraft armed with bombs against BB's.


I think Canoerebel is doing pretty good with the resources he has ... I count 17 1000 pound bomb strikes on the Musashi .. I have sank a Yamato class BB with less 1000 pounders (15) and no torps

Must have been very good die rolls to get her to burn up with only 15 bomb hits. Mostly I have seen IJN BBs need about 25-30 bomb hits to get enough systems damage and heavy fires to get runaway damage and burn up.

Still, the hits and fires on Musashi and Nagato probably caused ~ 30 points of systems damage which would make them vulnerable to further attacks and poor in SCTF or Bombardment TF effectiveness. He must send them for lengthy repairs. I figure six weeks to two months.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 5731
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 1:53:12 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Can we get a screenshot of the Marshalls with base info - port, AF, and number of engineers?

_____________________________


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Post #: 5732
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 2:15:38 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The planes can carry torpedoes and have them equipped but there is no enough runway for them to take off.

No, planes do not fly bombing missions from a lvl 1 airfield.

The only thing lvl1 gets you is CAP and recon missions.

Right - but what is the command range of the Air HQ? If it extends to a nearby island with a bigger AF, just put the TBs there.


You can do that?? I learn new things every day!!

_____________________________


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Post #: 5733
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 6:10:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/7/43

Circus: Allied strike aircraft and escorts target enemy shipping and CAP at Amchitka. The escorts don't do well in that capacity. Consequently, Allied air losses are high (35 SBDs and 26 good fighters vs. 9 enemy fighters). But plenty of strike aircraft get through, scoring one hit on xAP Montevideo Maru, multiple hits on three xAK (Arizona Maru confirmed sunk), and multiple hits on two LSDs, which both report "heavy fires, heavy damage.") That's a pretty steep price to nick enemy shipping, but if memory serves LSDs are significant Japanese assets. More importantly, this raid my force John to think carefully about an invasion of Ulak or points east. Despite the power he has in the Aleutians, he has to work hard to neutralize Allied air. On the other hand, that may be one reason he wants Ulak so bad.

Roller Coaster: The big Japanese combat TF retired west, but a DD TF penetrated into the open water east of the Marshalls, from which it should be able to savage some vulnerable xAKs. PBY Liberators targeted this group, but missed.

The biggest news is a strong carrier TF eight hexes SW of Tabituea. I'll post a screen shot shortly.

Allied shipping is beginning to organize at Pearl for the upcoming Operation Thin Man, which is one part invasion of Kwaj and Roi-Namur and one part supply run to the other islands. It really is kind of funny. The amount of amphibs in this op will be relatively small and dwarfed by the amount of supply ships, combat ships, and carriers. This puts things into the proper perspective - the real objective is enemy shipping.

18th Canadian Brigade arrived at Pearl. I'm going to let it upgrade a day or two before loading (the carriers are still five days from being ready). A US RCT prepping for Kwaj is about two days from Pearl. Two Canadian battalions prepping for Kwaj are about four days out (the latter will have to play catch up, because the main amphibs will leave Pearl in three days).

The main USN combat TF will consist of BB North Carolina, BB Massachusetts, CA Salt Lake City, CL Montpelier, CLAA Juneau, and eight Fletchers. Each captain has been vetted and Bull Halsey commands this TF. There will be another combat TF of Fletchers and some cruisers. There will be two CVE TFs. There will be three CV TFs, each comprised of three CV and a CVL. That leaves me with one CV (Victorious) extra. I'll have to figure out what to do with her.

BB Resolution Quandary: This BB suffered light/moderate damage during Roller Coaster and retired to San Fran to repair and upgrade. Sadly, the upgrade takes about 70 days (all RN ships seem to take a long, long, long time). She still has 69 days to complete upgrades and she's due for withdrawal in 39 days. The math doesn't work well for me. I checked, and I don't have the option to withdraw her. Am I screwed? I'm probably screwed, right?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/23/2016 6:11:57 PM >

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 5734
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 6:11:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Japanese carriers south of the Roller Coaster area of operations.

The Gilberts and Marshalls appear primed to turn into a meeting engagement/hornet's nest.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5735
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 6:12:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This did not work. I moved the TBF squadron from Jaluit to nearby Ailinglaplap, a level three airfield, and torpedoes were disabled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The planes can carry torpedoes and have them equipped but there is no enough runway for them to take off.

No, planes do not fly bombing missions from a lvl 1 airfield.

The only thing lvl1 gets you is CAP and recon missions.

Right - but what is the command range of the Air HQ? If it extends to a nearby island with a bigger AF, just put the TBs there.


You can do that?? I learn new things every day!!


(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 5736
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 6:31:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This did not work. I moved the TBF squadron from Jaluit to nearby Ailinglaplap, a level three airfield, and torpedoes were disabled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

The planes can carry torpedoes and have them equipped but there is no enough runway for them to take off.

No, planes do not fly bombing missions from a lvl 1 airfield.

The only thing lvl1 gets you is CAP and recon missions.

Right - but what is the command range of the Air HQ? If it extends to a nearby island with a bigger AF, just put the TBs there.


You can do that?? I learn new things every day!!



Open up the LCU screen for that air HQ. One of the bits in the upper left corner is something like "Command Radius" followed by a number. That number is the range in hexes.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 4/23/2016 6:34:10 PM >

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5737
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 6:38:16 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		It does work CR, I have done it. Does you HQ have torpedoes?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5738
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:18:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		It's not working for me. See screenshot: Air HQ command radius 5 with 20 torps at Jaluit, which is three hexes from Ailinglaplap, a level three airfield. The TBFs there are not able to use torps.

There may be some other reason that's entering into it - after all, you can tell I'm sorta blindfolded and groping in the dark here.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 5739
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:21:12 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		TBFs at Ailinglaplap decline to cooperate.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5740
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:24:12 PM   
apbarog


Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		More planes than torpedoes?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5741
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:30:58 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		That's it, apbarog. I went back and added 20 more torps to the HQ, and the TBF then had torps enabled. (What threw me be, beyond sheer ignorance, was the fact that the squadron WAS enabled at Jaluit - same number of planes, same HQ, same number of torps; so when I moved the planes, I didn't think to check that again.)

(in reply to apbarog)
Post #: 5742
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:31:37 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

More planes than torpedoes?


Winner, most of your TBFs will fly with torps, but some will not. Add more Torps and all of them
should fly with torps.

(in reply to apbarog)
Post #: 5743
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:40:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Here's the information Michael (NYGiants) asked for (I think):




Attachment (1)

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 5744
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:43:01 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You've probably seen this video before. I had. But it really brought the game to life since John and I are fighting hard in the Marshalls/Gilberts right now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HIYYvgpqFM

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/23/2016 7:44:57 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5745
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 7:55:05 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's it, apbarog. I went back and added 20 more torps to the HQ, and the TBF then had torps enabled. (What threw me be, beyond sheer ignorance, was the fact that the squadron WAS enabled at Jaluit - same number of planes, same HQ, same number of torps; so when I moved the planes, I didn't think to check that again.)

Also... click on the show TOE button (text) to show the air HQ's TOE. You will see the torpedo line change a bit. Enter the number of torpedoes that you want the air HQ to automatically rearm. If you enter "200" and air HQ only has 100 torpedoes, next turn is will automatically get 100 more torpedoes (to bring stock to 200). This does require that it be set to accept Replacements. This makes it easier to deal with air HQs and torpedoes.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5746
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 8:07:33 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's it, apbarog. I went back and added 20 more torps to the HQ, and the TBF then had torps enabled. (What threw me be, beyond sheer ignorance, was the fact that the squadron WAS enabled at Jaluit - same number of planes, same HQ, same number of torps; so when I moved the planes, I didn't think to check that again.)

Also... click on the show TOE button (text) to show the air HQ's TOE. You will see the torpedo line change a bit. Enter the number of torpedoes that you want the air HQ to automatically rearm. If you enter "200" and air HQ only has 100 torpedoes, next turn is will automatically get 100 more torpedoes (to bring stock to 200). This does require that it be set to accept Replacements. This makes it easier to deal with air HQs and torpedoes.

Always stock your HQs with enough torps that any aircraft that can carry them can fly two strikes on the same day. It doesn't happen very often but if the enemy is close enough and you have good enough DL to get a morning strike, you might also get an afternoon one.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5747
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 8:10:03 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
That leaves me with one CV (Victorious) extra. I'll have to figure out what to do with her.


May be as spare, just behind the CV fleet, and with aircraft on ASW duties. In order to quickly replace a CV in case of damage by sub or air combat.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5748
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 8:37:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Also... click on the show TOE button (text) to show the air HQ's TOE. You will see the torpedo line change a bit. Enter the number of torpedoes that you want the air HQ to automatically rearm. If you enter "200" and air HQ only has 100 torpedoes, next turn is will automatically get 100 more torpedoes (to bring stock to 200). This does require that it be set to accept Replacements. This makes it easier to deal with air HQs and torpedoes.



I didn't know that. Thank you kindly, sir.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5749
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 9:13:18 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


BB Resolution Quandary: This BB suffered light/moderate damage during Roller Coaster and retired to San Fran to repair and upgrade. Sadly, the upgrade takes about 70 days (all RN ships seem to take a long, long, long time). She still has 69 days to complete upgrades and she's due for withdrawal in 39 days. The math doesn't work well for me. I checked, and I don't have the option to withdraw her. Am I screwed? I'm probably screwed, right?




I dimly remember there is a way to stop an upgrade. Maybe. I think witpqs posted about it months ago. Or it might have been Michael.

I think it involved not going in through the Manage Ships Under Repair button, but another way. Maybe the Show Ships Under Repair button on the right side of the lower base screen.

Anyway, I think it can be done, but I've never done it. If it can't be done, yeah, you're in for some hefty PP penalties.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5750
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 9:35:34 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


BB Resolution Quandary: This BB suffered light/moderate damage during Roller Coaster and retired to San Fran to repair and upgrade. Sadly, the upgrade takes about 70 days (all RN ships seem to take a long, long, long time). She still has 69 days to complete upgrades and she's due for withdrawal in 39 days. The math doesn't work well for me. I checked, and I don't have the option to withdraw her. Am I screwed? I'm probably screwed, right?




I dimly remember there is a way to stop an upgrade. Maybe. I think witpqs posted about it months ago. Or it might have been Michael.

I think it involved not going in through the Manage Ships Under Repair button, but another way. Maybe the Show Ships Under Repair button on the right side of the lower base screen.

Anyway, I think it can be done, but I've never done it. If it can't be done, yeah, you're in for some hefty PP penalties.

The only way I know of is to set "No" to the upgrade button on the ship's display. After an upgrade goes, you're just stuck waiting for the ship to finish upgrading or repairing, whichever is longer.

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Post #: 5751
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 10:06:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I double-checked and there is a Withdraw Ship button on the Resolution screen. I'm not sure how I missed it the first time. Total damage (battle + upgrade) is less than 50, so I'm good to go.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5752
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 10:08:53 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I double-checked and there is a Withdraw Ship button on the Resolution screen. I'm not sure how I missed it the first time. Total damage (battle + upgrade) is less than 50, so I'm good to go.


That might have been what I was remembering. On one screen it doesn't show if in upgrade, and the other it does. It's hell getting old. I just remember it was in a discussion of this very problem, and the screen most people use to manage the ship doesn't show it.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5753
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/23/2016 10:20:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks. You got me to double-checking, which led to the right button.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 5754
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 4:38:00 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

It would have been nice if one or two of those bomb hits were torpedo hits instead. What have you got in the way of ship killers? you don't what to waste strike aircraft armed with bombs against BB's.


I think Canoerebel is doing pretty good with the resources he has ... I count 17 1000 pound bomb strikes on the Musashi .. I have sank a Yamato class BB with less 1000 pounders (15) and no torps

Must have been very good die rolls to get her to burn up with only 15 bomb hits. Mostly I have seen IJN BBs need about 25-30 bomb hits to get enough systems damage and heavy fires to get runaway damage and burn up.

Still, the hits and fires on Musashi and Nagato probably caused ~ 30 points of systems damage which would make them vulnerable to further attacks and poor in SCTF or Bombardment TF effectiveness. He must send them for lengthy repairs. I figure six weeks to two months.



Well first I owe an apology to John Dillworth, because his orginal post spurred a great discussion on why Canoerebel had not placed Torpedo Bombers in the Marshalls .. Great discussion!

I agree with you 100% that sinking a big BB with 15 1K pounders is about -3 standard deviations .. not very likely ... but like the lottery slogan you can't win if you don't play
My thought was that Canoerebel was not sending in the TB's evaluating the risk benefit .. if a torp does hit there is some P(x) that it is not going to work vs. P(y) getting shot down by flak

In my case I got 2 critical hits out of 15 ...and the fires did the job ... I did not know until I got an Email with a "this game sucks ..." What I also do not know and might be a huge factor in this case is the damage prior to my assault ..doing the bombardment thing at full speed and taking on shore batteries has it toll

I think 2 sys per hit is a good estimate of damage given no critical hits and whatever random float/engine damage

One thing I do like to do is train my B-25's and P-39's for skip bombing .. I find I get some excellent results against the big girls... just get fires going ..

Ok back to your AAR ..

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 5755
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 4:59:10 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/8/43

An interesting turn, but it's been a long day, so my post will be briefer than it out to be.

Roller Coaster: Snapper fires a spread of four torps at CVL Ryujo two hexes SE of Wake Island. CA Kumano is part of this TF. Meanswhile, 35 hexes south (and just NE of Tabituea) is that large CVE TF (NavSearch reports 10 CVEs, but also reports Zuikaku's fighters are there).

This is very strange. John has two carrier TFs widely dispersed and entering waters that aren't friendly to him. He must feel he knows where my carriers are. Wasp and Lex will be ready to steam in three days, at which time I'd gladly take a shot at striking a divided carrier force. But John may combine them or withdraw before any of that happens.

The raiding DD force east of the Marshalls turned out to be CL Isuzu and about five DDs. They sank one xAK. Now they seem to be retiring towards CVL Ryujo's TF.

18th Canadian Bde. upgraded everything except the infantry squads. I'll give it one more day to see what happens. Then this unit loads.

It looks like things are shaping up for a mighty clash in the Marshalls, though John may pull back.

Circus: No signs of an imminent enemy move on Ulak. I'd like that to continue for awhile. I don't want to lose Ulak prior to Operation Carnival, yet I'm not in a position to rally strongly to its defense.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 5756
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 5:06:39 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Nice sub use.

Usually CVLs get hit...should have fired 6.




(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5757
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 5:46:59 AM   
poodlebrain

 

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline 		You need an HQ at Ailinglaplap. You can try to transport some of the HQ from Jaluit using PBYs. You may get a large enough fragment of the HQ to requisition torpedoes. The drawback is that you pull the PBYs off of search.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5758
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 6:15:37 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

You need an HQ at Ailinglaplap. You can try to transport some of the HQ from Jaluit using PBYs. You may get a large enough fragment of the HQ to requisition torpedoes. The drawback is that you pull the PBYs off of search.

See CR's post # 5742. He got the torps he needed with the Air HQ still at Jaluit.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to poodlebrain)
Post #: 5759
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/24/2016 11:56:30 AM   
DW

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

This is very strange. John has two carrier TFs widely dispersed and entering waters that aren't friendly to him.


Perhaps it's alone, aside from escorts, and inbound to join KB?

If he was upgrading a couple of weeks back, it could be that Ryujo was a laggard about getting her upgrades done. Now, she's catching up with the main fleet.

Or, maybe she's running a sweep to get rid of your pickets?

Just some thoughts.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5760
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