Question Regarding "Ate Up"

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Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/26/2016 10:15:16 AM

FeebleKenny

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

Hey guys, I just have a bit of a noobish question here.

I have been playing the scenario Ate Up as NATO, on normal difficulty. I am finding in incredibly difficult to avoid getting completely massacred by the Soviets. While the Abrams company you get is very effective, the infantry units seem all but worthless, especially in the face of overwhelming Soviet numerical superiority. It feels like the infantry are helpless on the offense.

Anyone have any lucking beating this scenario as NATO? Any insight would be appreciated!

Post #: 1

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/26/2016 2:26:10 PM

IronMikeGolf

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Welcome to warfighting, Kenny! I don't have any tips at hand for this specific scenario, but let me throw out some general info.

You are commanding a mech-heavy task force. You will need to task organize it. Don't fight with your companies as pure tank or inf. Once units and HQs are on the map, re-subordinate so you have a tank plt in each company. Now, the tanks and inf come on map over the span of 20 minutes, so decide on the organization and move platoons accordingly and resubordinate as the units and HQs come on map. You should be able to get that sorted out before those units come in contact.

You have 2 batteries of 155mm. That is twice what a task force normally would get. This is your main killer.

Be sure to fire a prep on your objective before assaulting. The goal is to reduce the Readiness of the defenders. Use Suppression missions to conserve ammo. Plan your fires to to hit the target hexes at least twice. More if possible. Consider putting smoke on the objective and time it so the objective is smoked as your inf enters direct fire range of the defenders. See this thread: Artillery prep

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to FeebleKenny)

Post #: 2

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/26/2016 2:54:50 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

I've beaten all the scenarios at least once.

At least in a past life!

As the US player you need to do a few things.

First, when I play the computer I play it like I would a person. I misdirect the computer away from where I want to go.

Second, use your helicopters to determine where the Soviets are. By now, since you've played this more than once, you probably have a good idea where they are, and then decide where your main force is going to attack. Once you decide that you can decide if that main attack is to be the misdirection force or the main force.

Third, I wait for my main attack until I've 'demonstrated' to the computer, or human, where I'm going and they can react. A few hours is a good time frame. Exactly how many is up to each persons taste and your ability to endure pain.

Fourth, HAMMER wherever you attack with the hardest concentration of force you can. Get maximum casualties from him while you are getting his attention. Be careful not to advance beyond your means to defend your own forces.

Hope that helps.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 4/26/2016 2:57:27 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 3

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/26/2016 3:11:05 PM

cbelva

Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline

Hey Kenny, Welcome to the Red Storm. I have not played this scenario in a looooooong time. I looked it over this morning to get an idea to suggest some strategies for you. My first thoughts were some not so nice comments about The Mad Russian (the guy who designed this scenario). The intelligence briefing is not promising--basically you are to attack to take the bridges over the Gersprenz River and then hold that position against an elite Soviet regiment. Infantry in modern warfare are not the unit of choice for an attack. They are good at holding terrain, but not as effective in taking it. This game demonstrates that time and again.

The terrain is very rough and will be good for hiding your movements. However, it is also beneficial for defense and for the potential for ambushes. Your forces aren't that powerful. You have a company of tanks and and a company of atk helos to compliment you two companies of mech infantry (M113s).

Ok, here are my pointers: 1) I would not try to take all the objectives. With the forces available, I would concentrate on just one initially. 2). Lead with your scouts to find the enemy location. 3) Lead your main attack with your tanks, but don't assault the obj with the tanks at first. Place them in good defensive overwatch positions and let them pound the enemy. 4) Once the enemy is located soften him up with arty and air. 5) When you assault with the infantry, use them dismounted. M113s are fairly useless in the offense and will die fairly quickly. If they are loaded with troops, they will die in their carriers. 6) Use smoke to blind the enemy and to conceal your assault.

Once you have taken the first obj, you can decide then if you have enough force left to go after another one. You will need to secure the one you have taken. I hope these pointed along with Iron Mike's helps. From looking at this scenario, I can tell you that it is a difficult mission for the Amis.

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 4

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/26/2016 4:03:37 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

Yeah,

What Mike and Charles said!!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

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Post #: 5

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/27/2016 12:11:19 AM

FeebleKenny

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

Wow, great advice guys. Thanks a ton for all the pointers! :)

I will have to give it a few more tries and see if I can't improve on my previous scores. I've definitely gotten some good ideas from all the awesome suggestions.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 6

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/29/2016 1:11:26 AM

Deathtreader

Posts: 1039
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Use Suppression missions to conserve ammo. Plan your fires to to hit the target hexes at least twice. More if possible. Consider putting smoke on the objective and time it so the objective is smoked as your inf enters direct fire range of the defenders. See this thread: Artillery prep

Hi,

I've always wondered about the best usage of smoke...... is it better to place on the hex objective that you're attacking INTO or the hex you're attacking FROM directly into the objective?? If the in-hex defenders have thermal imaging then it probably doesn't matter which. But if they don't then smoking the objective hex blinds them to all the adjacent hexes?? If so, then what about the attacker without thermal imaging systems?? They would not be able to see in the objective?? Until they entered anyways....but won't smoke reduce the amount of in-hex combat??

To the Devs: What do the design philosophy and game mechanics suggest in the manner of usage??

There are several questions in my ramble but I really would appreciate some (hopefully) definitive answers regarding this.

Many thanks!

Rob.

_____________________________

So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 7

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/29/2016 2:10:30 PM

IronMikeGolf

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Kenny: I've taken the time to play this a couple of times. Both times, I left the center objective alone. Looking at the sector, the objectives, and terrain, you have the most freedom of maneuver in the south. Also, there are more bridges, heavier duty bridges, and better roads in the south. The south is the objective a real unit would want to take.

First battle: I sent a mech pure company north to demonstrate and hopefully pull some forces north. Ownership changed hands a few times. I managed to seize it. His arty, especially his MRL, really took a toll.

Second battle: I sent all three line companies south. I used my arty and helos to search deep and destroy his towed arty and MRL. I also found his mobile reserve (the BMD equipped battalion) and put a hurt on that. This activity caused the AI to reinforce his southern sector. I started my ground attack about an hour too late and ran out of time. I held only the western of the two south VPs. I also did not have time to fire an arty prep prior to my attack.

Lessons learned; Deep helo strikes coupled with a demonstration to the north should work. I need to push my Task Force HQ east early to cut down on the helo cycle time (fly-attack-fly-rearm) and push the tube arty east early so it can range the whole sector. Demonstrate north as early as possible. Give them one battery of 155mm for support. Think each orders cycle about turning off/on FSCC.

Right now, FSCC is all or none, and that includes air support. When I got to where I was going to commence my ground attack, I tried to get eyes on the center sector. The AI promptly sent an airstrike into the greatest concentration of forces, which had bristling with MANPADs. Lost both aircraft. Also, when I launched the ground attack, all the indirect units were in resupply.

The Soviet airmobile guys have little armor. But, they have a ton of short range anti-armor systems. You need to think of your ground attacks as being mopping up remnants. You don't have enough combat power to break through undamaged defenders.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to Deathtreader)

Post #: 8

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/29/2016 2:28:54 PM

IronMikeGolf

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

Deathtreader: As they say in the Schoolhouse, "Situation dictates." It really is METT-T driven, primarily Enemy and Troops. Consider all the below being in a situation where no units have thermal sights.

For game mechanics, smoke temporarily raises the Visibility Hindrance. That affects spotting and direct fire (by raising the Effective Protection level).

So, you need to consider what types of enemy systems you wish to degrade and what sorts of friendly systems you are trying to protect. Generally speaking, armor and anti-armor units can range out to 2 or more hexes. Laying smoke in front of them can mask your approach and deny them the chance to attrit you until you are in the same hex.

The flip side is when you attack inf type units, where the majority of anti-armor weapons are short range and shoulder-fired. There, you might be better off smoking the defending unit itself.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 9

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/29/2016 5:42:37 PM

FeebleKenny

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

Yeah I'm definitely getting the impression that the southern victory points are the place to go for. I actually hadn't considered sending the helos to look for the Soviet artillery. Those missile launchers are a killer. I tried setting one of the 155mm batteries to counter battery fire but alas I don't think I ever saw it actually shoot.

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 10

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/30/2016 5:16:02 PM

IronMikeGolf

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

I played this again, more "seriously" and got a Marginal Victory with a force exchange ratio of 2 Soviet to 1 US. Here's what I did:

1. Organization: Resubordinate so each company has a tank plt. Cut one mech plt to the northern recce plt.
2. Plan:
a. Conduct deep strikes to find and destroy fire support assets and disrupt/degrade mobile reserve.
b. While that is happening, move the TF to the valley south of the southern objective.
c. Once the enemy artillery is destroyed, get eyes on the southern objective and prep with arty, MLRS, and AH
d. Commence ground attack not later than 4 hours remaining. I ran two companies east of the river, with the light company in trail, and the third company west of the river.
e. Use the recce's mech plt to seize the northern objective if the enemy abandons it.
3. Notes:
a. Start with FSCC off. If you see Hinds, fire a saturation MLRS mission. Once you find the enemy RAG, turn FSCC on.There are too many SAM
b. When you are ready to pinpoint the enemy on the objective, turn FSCC off. By this time, you have the F-15s on station. The staff is only too happy to call an airstrike on the main body of the enemy. There are too many SAMS for that. Use the airstrikes on the edges.
c. Keep your TF HQs as close to the fight as possible. That will get you less flight time for the AHs and, thus, more sorties.
d. I used the OHs in the enemy rear to make sure all the howizters and MRLs are dead. If you kill the RAG HQ, great, but don't waste time on it if you can help it.
e. The longer you wait to attack the southern obj, the more combat power will shift south. You need to think force protection. Make it easy for you ground troops to take their objectives.

_____________________________

Jeff
Sua Sponte

(in reply to FeebleKenny)

Post #: 11

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/30/2016 7:45:28 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

I never put my artillery on Counter battery fire. I want them killing enemy units I pick. If I can locate them on-map then I'll target them. I normally target my own artillery and air assets. Rarely do I let the FSCC fire them for me.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 12

RE: Question Regarding "Ate Up" - 4/30/2016 11:17:10 PM

Deathtreader

Posts: 1039
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Deathtreader: As they say in the Schoolhouse, "Situation dictates." It really is METT-T driven, primarily Enemy and Troops. Consider all the below being in a situation where no units have thermal sights.

For game mechanics, smoke temporarily raises the Visibility Hindrance. That affects spotting and direct fire (by raising the Effective Protection level).

So, you need to consider what types of enemy systems you wish to degrade and what sorts of friendly systems you are trying to protect. Generally speaking, armor and anti-armor units can range out to 2 or more hexes. Laying smoke in front of them can mask your approach and deny them the chance to attrit you until you are in the same hex.

The flip side is when you attack inf type units, where the majority of anti-armor weapons are short range and shoulder-fired. There, you might be better off smoking the defending unit itself.

Thanks!

Every bit helps

Rob.

_____________________________

So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

(in reply to IronMikeGolf)

Post #: 13