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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Manila Falls

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RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 1:25:22 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Your subs are killin it! Nice work. Anything you've figured out that is leading to the success so far?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1531

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 1:59:50 PM

savelius2

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Man! I feel like your masochistic other game is giving you either serious karma or some real insights into game mechanics that are serving you well. Good stuff!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1532

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 3:04:23 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Your subs are killin it! Nice work. Anything you've figured out that is leading to the success so far?

Well, the obvious things like swapping out Captains.

You can influence your opponent by your play. A long time ago, I detailed how I planned on using my CVs. Small task forces, widely separated, not outside of land based air, and away from Allied subs.

I did this because I wanted Jocke to divide his carrier forces. The fewer the CVs in a force the more vulnerable to subs and land based air they are.

Then, I operate my subs in wolf packs with very short (1-2 hex) patrols with reaction 1. Usually 1 hex.

Additionally, I like to operate the Iboats where there is no land base naval search spotting them. They need to be undetected to work. You have to discover these areas, because it also has to be areas with a good chance of ships passing by. Or you have to do something to draw his ships into the area.

If possible dangle your motivation during periods of low moon. In 1942 I don't think the Allies should be wandering around the ocean with CV/BB during periods of low moon -- unless it is in an area with very good aerial ASW (and not float plane ASW).

The first CV I got had 8 Iboats after it and I had been dangling two small CV forces for him to think about plus launching several fast transports taking dot bases and threatening Noumea although I was doing it on a scale that invited an Allied response. Moonlight was very low. Just like this case, very few of the Iboats were spotted if any prior to the attack.

In fact the prior month I hit another CV down by Lord Howe or Norfolk--but only hit with one torpedo. This was also during low moonlight.

Try to stay in deep water.

If possible use Emilies/Glen at night/day naval search over the area the Iboats are working in.

Kind of my thoughts on their usage.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/1/2016 3:06:04 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1533

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 3:07:09 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: savelius2

Man! I feel like your masochistic other game is giving you either serious karma or some real insights into game mechanics that are serving you well. Good stuff!

Yep, my other game is a learning experience.

(in reply to savelius2)

Post #: 1534

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 3:11:13 PM

Lowpe

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Game is having hopefully only a one day hiatus as Jocke wraps his mind around what just happened again.

I decided to bomb Cloncurry and Coos Bay again. No planes or troops at either base for the last few days. Although they are both so damaged it is hard to pick up that many more VPs from either, but I am looking to deliver a few personal morale checks.

Jocke has stopped even recon over Coal Harbor and Alliford Bay -- although he is still running a few subs and air search.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/1/2016 3:13:43 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1535

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 3:12:14 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Game is having hopefully only a one day hiatus as Jocke wraps his mind around what just happened again.

Yeah, we've all been there. I've found that after a dozen or so turns like that you learn to shrug it off.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1536

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 3:13:58 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Game is having hopefully only a one day hiatus as Jocke wraps his mind around what just happened again.

Yeah, we've all been there. I've found that after a dozen or so turns like that you learn to shrug it off.

Your at Acceptance, as am I.

Jocke is still in disbelief.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1537

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 5:03:25 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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I like the night Glen search. I've not done that. Would work well especially in combo with other day search subs. Can't believe I didn't do that yet when I night search like crazy everywhere else!

Also I like the idea of initiating action to draw opponents into an area during low moon. Great thoughts.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1538

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 5:34:02 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I like the night Glen search. I've not done that. Would work well especially in combo with other day search subs. Can't believe I didn't do that yet when I night search like crazy everywhere else!

Also I like the idea of initiating action to draw opponents into an area during low moon. Great thoughts.

I almost always use the Glens on night search in stalking wolf packs. Often times I limit the range to 1 -- although my understanding is they will automatically search 3 hexes in 360 if the range is set less than 3.

I try to center the Glen Iboat so that it searches the other hunting Iboats very small patrol area.

When I setup the Mornington Island operation against Cloncurry, I showed several times the Iboat pack that nailed the Wasp, and also how the moon was waning and in fact the day the operation launched it was 0% moonlight.

The devil is in the details.

Plus, I used sig int heavy volume of traffic to key me into possible carrier locations.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1539

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 6:03:24 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

1st Week of Dec 1944

Moonlight is low, around 20 percent or so, and the Wasp blunders into my Iboat trap above Sydney.

The high volume of radio traffic intel, that aided in the justification of this trap, certainly paid off.

I thought I might score another CV, but really, I thought it would be in the Bay of Bengal.

The LeTriomphant, one of my favorite ships, is hapless at early ASW. When I played as the Allies she would almost always get sunk by an Iboat in nasty, nasty near Suva. So much so, I would just leave her in port until some halfway decent ASW could show up to escort her away.

Well played! Nemo would be proud. You set this up and Jocke acted exactly as you wanted. He's going to be so pissed.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1540

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 6:28:17 PM

ny59giants

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I've lost Wasp to 3 TT hits from sub in SoPac before. She is more like Japanese CVs in that she is kind of brittle.

Great insight on moonlight.

Looks like another detail I need to plan for as Allies in '42 and '43 when conducting offensive ops. I had a BB hit (TF was with 3 fast BBs and 8 DDs) with 2 TT from just 2 MTBs in Aleutians with low moonlight and then had to put up with John's banzai afterwards.

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Post #: 1541

RE: Manila Falls - 5/1/2016 8:07:19 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've lost Wasp to 3 TT hits from sub in SoPac before. She is more like Japanese CVs in that she is kind of brittle.

Great insight on moonlight. Looks like another detail I need to plan for as Allies in '42 and '43 when conducting offensive ops. I had a BB hit (TF was with 3 fast BBs and 8 DDs) with 2 TT from just 2 MTBs in Aleutians with low moonlight and then had to put up with John's banzai afterwards.

The Wasp has a very low durability, under 60 I think, so I would expect four torpedoes to do her in. It was two different Iboats that put them into her, and perhaps she was able to fly off her planes after the first attack? Or maybe she is wallowing, and taking on water right now with all her planes still on board. That would be a pity since Jocke would be able to save the pilots...but better than the craft and pilots flying off.

Anyhow, I have been paying attention to moonlight for a long time now...but usually with respect to PT boats and MTBs. I have expanded that thought process out further to include night naval aerial attacks, night bombing, submarines, surface engagements, and bombardments.

Heartening to hear she went down with 3 hits....thanks.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 1542

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 1:35:40 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've lost Wasp to 3 TT hits from sub in SoPac before. She is more like Japanese CVs in that she is kind of brittle.

Great insight on moonlight. Looks like another detail I need to plan for as Allies in '42 and '43 when conducting offensive ops. I had a BB hit (TF was with 3 fast BBs and 8 DDs) with 2 TT from just 2 MTBs in Aleutians with low moonlight and then had to put up with John's banzai afterwards.

The Wasp has a very low durability, under 60 I think, so I would expect four torpedoes to do her in. It was two different Iboats that put them into her, and perhaps she was able to fly off her planes after the first attack? Or maybe she is wallowing, and taking on water right now with all her planes still on board. That would be a pity since Jocke would be able to save the pilots...but better than the craft and pilots flying off.

Anyhow, I have been paying attention to moonlight for a long time now...but usually with respect to PT boats and MTBs. I have expanded that thought process out further to include night naval aerial attacks, night bombing, submarines, surface engagements, and bombardments.

Heartening to hear she went down with 3 hits....thanks.

I've lost Lexington to 1 or maybe 2 hits before. Somewhat fluky, I think.

In one of my games, Wasp took 3 aerial torpedoes (lower effect rating than the 53cm) and lived, with an ammo explosion. I think second time in the same game. Saratoga, on the other hand, took 4 and sank like a rock. Damage rolls... with those damage messages, I would wager she's a goner, but it is possible that she makes it.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1543

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 9:52:19 AM

Encircled

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Best bet she will be making one hex a phase, or even one hex a turn.

With 4 I-boats in range, she's toast!

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Post #: 1544

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 12:50:56 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Well played! Nemo would be proud. You set this up and Jocke acted exactly as you wanted. He's going to be so pissed.

Lets' not get carried away here...but Jocke is certainly upset.

He thinks Japanese Iboats are incredibly overpowered.

I don't think he has any idea how much thought and planning went into that strike.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 1545

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 12:54:48 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Best bet she will be making one hex a phase, or even one hex a turn.

With 4 I-boats in range, she's toast!

Here is hoping Lok and Encircled. I dislike letting cripples get away. No turn this morning so Jocke is still hurting, and just two days ago he was gently prodding me to finish my turn faster.

All that is ok, as I need the time for my other game and wouldn't really mind a slow down here.

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 1546

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 1:13:37 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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This happens. Wait until you win a CV battle. I had to make some concessions to keep going after that. He is tough though and will make it through Im sure.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1547

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 1:35:03 PM

Lowpe

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Here is the 6/42 Wasp with the hideous upgrade in 10/42.

I sure hope she is gone, that would be 3 fleet carriers on the bottom. No matter what, she won't be around for the fireworks this month.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1548

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 4:56:12 PM

Lowpe

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1st Week of Dec, 1942

From Jocke's message he implies that the Wasp is sunk.

He is pretty irate about how overpowered Iboats are...methinks he gets only one side of the story.

Anyhow, we tangle with a DMS squadron on ASW in the reaction phase, but then we strike again!

San Juan seems by herself...she better be careful if she wastes all her ammo, we might bag her too!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1549

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:00:22 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

1st Week of Dec, 1942

From Jocke's message he implies that the Wasp is sunk.

He is pretty irate about how overpowered Iboats are...methinks he gets only one side of the story.

Sometimes it just comes down to luck or your opponent's good play. In my BabesLite game against Jocke my submarines didn't do anything. Often DC'd before a torpedo attack was ever initiated. So frankly, he needs to suck it up. As he often liked to say to me, **** happens, deal with it.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/2/2016 5:09:12 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

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Post #: 1550

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:00:24 PM

Lowpe

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I can't believe he puts up no resistance here...

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Post #: 1551

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:08:26 PM

Lowpe

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Definitive proof!

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Post #: 1552

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:09:58 PM

SqzMyLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Well played! Nemo would be proud. You set this up and Jocke acted exactly as you wanted. He's going to be so pissed.

Lets' not get carried away here...but Jocke is certainly upset. He thinks Japanese Iboats are incredibly overpowered.

I don't think he has any idea how much thought and planning went into that strike.

I don't think I'm getting carried away. You don't give yourself enough credit. You fully explained your reasoning and what you planned for. You set the conditions and your opponent reacted as you had hoped. That's damn good playing in my book.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1553

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:12:44 PM

Lowpe

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Mission accomplished....one Iboat is hurt by SBDs' flying from Brisbane, the others are low on fuel or torps so they will all retire.

Mission accomplished.

This is one of the very rare game moments where the plan worked, if it did take longer than I expected. I just didn't give up on the plan...

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1554

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:17:41 PM

Lowpe

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My goodness, did I sink the Enterprise?

My somewhat informed guess would be no, I got the Wasp.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/2/2016 5:33:49 PM >

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Post #: 1555

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:18:26 PM

Olorin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Lets' not get carried away here...but Jocke is certainly upset. He thinks Japanese Iboats are incredibly overpowered.

Jocke thinks anything Japanese is overpowered. Complaining about the cruel fate is his main characteristic as a player.

_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

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Post #: 1556

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:21:48 PM

Canoerebel

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Nah, that's too harsh. I've been following Jocke's AAR. Of course he's disppointed when bad things happen. But he strikes me as a relatively even-tempered player who is easy to get along with. He doesn't strike me as one who wears his emotions on his sleeve and complains bitterly about every little thing.

It sure is fun to read duel AARs. They really aren't very common. So thanks to Lowpe and Jocke for keeping us entertained. I know every reader can't wait to see how Lowpe's Big Adventure turns out. :)

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 1557

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:39:02 PM

Lowpe

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I miss not reading Jocke's AAR.

He is a very good opponent...so many positive characteristics. I have been blessed with very good opponents.

Anyhow, I think I will ship the replay and combat report off to Jocke while I work on the turn. I simply can't flip the turns quickly anymore as we move on to the next operation:

Olorin's & Lowpe's most excellent adventure!

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1558

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:41:36 PM

Olorin

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It's inevitable that some portion of Jocke's frustration will channel through his emails with Lowpe. I know that because I've played him and it's usually done in a manner that indirectly (and I'm sure unintentionally) belittles his opponent's effort.

My comment was more an attempt to encourage Lowpe to use his opponent's frustrations as a sign that he is doing well and is in charge of the game at the moment.

Japan is in excellent shape as she sets out to her grand adventure. My only question is: why leave a sizeable force at Chittagong and not use it to add further strength to the invasion? What was your thinking?

< Message edited by Olorin -- 5/2/2016 5:48:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

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Post #: 1559

RE: Manila Falls - 5/2/2016 5:49:12 PM

Lowpe

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India games!