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Naval part of the game - 3/20/2016 1:17:14 PM

SAAvenger

Posts: 22
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Belgium
Status: offline

hey guys

I really enjoy the game but not the naval part of it.

Basically the british bias is so obvious that it's deterring the gameplay.

So britannia has longer frontlines, better ships and more of them.

First of all it's not really "historical" but it's also annoying gameplay Wise.
Basically you can't really reproduce the attempt of Napoleon to attack great britain in 1805 so it reduces the openings
Mostly because you can't attack with two armies at the same time so you are limited to 20 ships that are less good than their counterparts.
I tried a 20 vs 17 fleet without expecting to win it was a real slaughter, the difference between lvl 3 and 4 is too big, the ennemy fleet sank 3 french ships every turn most of them one shotted.
I ended up 4 ships captured and 16 sunk against 2 sunk and 2 captured (and lost again)

Right now it seems your only chance is to use storm cards right before attacking but they do not do enough damages either (2 ships at most, while a card for spanish attrition can kill up to 6 of french units)

Gameplay Wise here is what I'd prefer to see:

- If you capture a british ship then it stays the same strength (4) and the other way around (so when the british capture a spanish ship it remains a lvl 2)
- Ability for veteran ships to gain level (so french ships could become 4) or the use of leaders as well
- lower the difference between levels so it's not so clear cut

Thanks for reading

< Message edited by SA_Avenger -- 3/20/2016 1:18:40 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/20/2016 6:02:54 PM

gdrover

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline

We are planning a significant expansion of the naval portion of the game, including a more detailed naval battle sub-game, in the DLC. Ships gaining experience will be a part of that.

As for the quality difference and extra challenge for the French player at sea. We certainly did lean toward giving the British navy a significant advantage in naval battles and quality. The reason for this was two-fold:

1) Historically, the British navy defeated the French regularly, even in battles where they were relatively even. This was due to the quality, motivation, and training of their crews and officers vs. French crews and naval officers. So capturing a British ship and manning it with a French crew would not give you a '4' rater. (at least that was our logic).

2) For gameplay challenge, it would be a fairly dull challenge if the player could easily invade England. The quality of the French army vs. British early in the wars would translate into a fast and easy victory for the player, knocking Great Britain out of the wars right away and ensuring a win. We opted instead to make the player work very hard to accomplish this goal. It IS do-able...but it requires time, great strategy, and some luck. If you are finally able to defeat Great Britain via invasion, you will have accomplished a great feat.

All this said, we do want to give the player more to do with the naval part of the game in the DLC, and to make the naval battles more detailed.

(in reply to SAAvenger)

Post #: 2

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/20/2016 8:39:39 PM

FF_1079

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/26/2007
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
Status: offline

I agree that it is nigh impossible to overcome the British fleet, and it should be.

Britain invested great sums of money in their Navy, which was the key to maintaining their far flung empire and it's profitable merchant trading. As the game designer pointed out, Britain repeatedly showed it's superiority in battles with the French fleet. I can say that it is possible to defeat the British fleet in the Atlantic if you are patient and spend years building up your fleet in Brest, waiting until the right moment to use the Storm card and achieve brief local superiority. Then one can merge the fleet from the South Atlantic port and hopefully challenge the Channel fleet for an invasion. I too started the 1805 scenario and watched as any attempt I made to combat the English resulted in wrecked fleets and multiple captures that only made them stronger. I think I can manage a British invasion in my next game of the 1805 scenario, if things play out as I have stated, and fate is not so fickle. I look forward to expansion of the Naval game, it will make it even more engaging that it currently is.

(in reply to gdrover)

Post #: 3

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/21/2016 12:24:44 PM

HeinzBaby

Posts: 174
Joined: 12/1/2014
From: WEST AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

The French Ships themselves were as good as The Royal Navy's. Captured French Ships were routinely refitted for Royal Navy service and their Frigates were much sought after prizes - this was usually because they carried 36-44 guns compared to the regular 32 gun Royal Navy Frigates.

The problems the French Navy had was a depleted Officer Corp. Before the Revolution, French Nobility families usually sent one their sons to sea for a career as a Naval Officer. Many officers were executed/purged during the French Revolution thus leaving the Navy with low Morale and little Command expertise. -(Stalin also purged his officer Corps prior to German Invasion and suffered according too)

However, Admr Suffren, operating in the Indian Ocean gave as good as he got, usually the better.

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Post #: 4

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/21/2016 9:44:23 PM

Erik2

Posts: 786
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

I'm playing the 1800-campaign.
Very early on I defeated the British navy in a series of battles.
Now my 15-strength fleet is spending the time fishing in the Channel (it is 1806).

How about this: The French have ships in all oceans surrounding the British Isles, creating a blockade.
A blockade should cause unit attrition.
This should force Mr.Nelson to get out of the port with his 8-strength fleet to try and break the blockade. You can only spend so many years on your afternoon tea.

(in reply to HeinzBaby)

Post #: 5

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/22/2016 12:00:49 AM

bssybeep

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SA_Avenger

hey guys

I really enjoy the game but not the naval part of it.

Basically the british bias is so obvious that it's deterring the gameplay.

So britannia has longer frontlines, better ships and more of them.

First of all it's not really "historical" but it's also annoying gameplay Wise.
Basically you can't really reproduce the attempt of Napoleon to attack great britain in 1805 so it reduces the openings
Mostly because you can't attack with two armies at the same time so you are limited to 20 ships that are less good than their counterparts.
I tried a 20 vs 17 fleet without expecting to win it was a real slaughter, the difference between lvl 3 and 4 is too big, the ennemy fleet sank 3 french ships every turn most of them one shotted.
I ended up 4 ships captured and 16 sunk against 2 sunk and 2 captured (and lost again)

Right now it seems your only chance is to use storm cards right before attacking but they do not do enough damages either (2 ships at most, while a card for spanish attrition can kill up to 6 of french units)

Gameplay Wise here is what I'd prefer to see:

- If you capture a british ship then it stays the same strength (4) and the other way around (so when the british capture a spanish ship it remains a lvl 2)
- Ability for veteran ships to gain level (so french ships could become 4) or the use of leaders as well
- lower the difference between levels so it's not so clear cut

Thanks for reading

I agree. Since one of the points to playing a wargame is the possibility if changing history, I'd at least like a chance against the British navy. Even with a French fleet of 11 ships, against 7 British, I still lost. The British almost always get to shoot first and get a lot of one-shot kills. Pretty unbalanced and unfair. So, a more detailed and reworking of the naval portion would be appreciated.

(in reply to SAAvenger)

Post #: 6

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/22/2016 7:31:45 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bssybeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: SA_Avenger

hey guys

I really enjoy the game but not the naval part of it.

Basically the british bias is so obvious that it's deterring the gameplay.

So britannia has longer frontlines, better ships and more of them.

First of all it's not really "historical" but it's also annoying gameplay Wise.
Basically you can't really reproduce the attempt of Napoleon to attack great britain in 1805 so it reduces the openings
Mostly because you can't attack with two armies at the same time so you are limited to 20 ships that are less good than their counterparts.
I tried a 20 vs 17 fleet without expecting to win it was a real slaughter, the difference between lvl 3 and 4 is too big, the ennemy fleet sank 3 french ships every turn most of them one shotted.
I ended up 4 ships captured and 16 sunk against 2 sunk and 2 captured (and lost again)

Right now it seems your only chance is to use storm cards right before attacking but they do not do enough damages either (2 ships at most, while a card for spanish attrition can kill up to 6 of french units)

Gameplay Wise here is what I'd prefer to see:

- If you capture a british ship then it stays the same strength (4) and the other way around (so when the british capture a spanish ship it remains a lvl 2)
- Ability for veteran ships to gain level (so french ships could become 4) or the use of leaders as well
- lower the difference between levels so it's not so clear cut

Thanks for reading

I agree. Since one of the points to playing a wargame is the possibility if changing history, I'd at least like a chance against the British navy. Even with a French fleet of 11 ships, against 7 British, I still lost. The British almost always get to shoot first and get a lot of one-shot kills. Pretty unbalanced and unfair. So, a more detailed and reworking of the naval portion would be appreciated.

Since my main interest in the game is Naval, I have played a number of test battles, and the biggest error the game has is the number of ships SUNK!

During this period in history wooden warships especially ships of the line, were virtually impossible to sink, highlighted by what happened at the battle of Trafalgar, where only 1 French ship was destroyed!

I have altered the in game combat table, so that it makes it harder to actually sink any ships.

COMBAT TABLE

Once a unit is Hit, then there is a determination on what, if
any, damage occurs. Random roll on the Damage Table. X +
Combat Rating of the Ship that was hit where X is the random
roll 1 � 12.

Outcome Impact on the Naval Unit

1 � 2 Ship Sinks; if the ship was disabled there is 50/50
chance that it was captured rather than sunk.
(NOTE: the ship is automatically sunk if the
unmodified roll is a �1�, and there is no chance of
capture in this instance).

3 � 8 Ship Takes Damage (damage is progressive:
No damage �Heavy Damage � Disabled � Ship
Sinks/ Captured) When a ship that is Disabled
is hit, there is a 50%/50% chance that it sinks or
is captured. Captured Ships are moved to the
Captured Area of the player who captures them.

9 - 12 + Light Damage � No Effect

Example : Battle Of Trafalgar

British

0 Ships captured
0 Ships destroyed

France:

10 ships captured,
one ship destroyed,

Spain:

11 ships captured,

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 3/22/2016 7:35:11 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/22/2016 10:04:02 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gdrover

We are planning a significant expansion of the naval portion of the game, including a more detailed naval battle sub-game, in the DLC. Ships gaining experience will be a part of that.

As for the quality difference and extra challenge for the French player at sea. We certainly did lean toward giving the British navy a significant advantage in naval battles and quality. The reason for this was two-fold:

1) Historically, the British navy defeated the French regularly, even in battles where they were relatively even. This was due to the quality, motivation, and training of their crews and officers vs. French crews and naval officers. So capturing a British ship and manning it with a French crew would not give you a '4' rater. (at least that was our logic).

All this said, we do want to give the player more to do with the naval part of the game in the DLC, and to make the naval battles more detailed.

It's true Britain had superior training of crews and officers, but for the most part, British ships of the line were smaller and weaker, Broadside to Broadside weight, than the French,Spanish and Russian ships.

You could do the game calculation much more historical,by having all the Major sea powers ships of equal combat strength.

4 = Britain,France,Spain & Russia.

3 = Holland,Denmark & Sweden

2 = Turkey ( Ottoman )

That would take care of the ships part of the calculation.

Now the easier part,The Crew and Officers superior training calculation.

Die roll

+1 = Britain.

-1 = France,Spain & Russia.

-2 = Holland, Denmark,Sweden & Turkey.

PS: According to the game manual Russia does not have a Naval Quality listing?

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 3/22/2016 10:10:21 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/23/2016 12:02:31 AM

Chromey

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/4/2015
Status: offline

QQ You Sank my battle ship

Hail Nelson!

(in reply to kirk23)

Post #: 9

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/23/2016 10:44:13 AM

Erik2

Posts: 786
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

I would like to see the Storm card replaced with random storms to affect ships at sea.
You really shouldn't be able to order a specific kind of weather.

(in reply to SAAvenger)

Post #: 10

RE: Naval part of the game - 3/23/2016 12:04:25 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Nygaard

I would like to see the Storm card replaced with random storms to affect ships at sea.
You really shouldn't be able to order a specific kind of weather.

I agree with you 100% the weather should be setup to be a random effect, and not be a one trick wonder, that needs a card to be played.

I would like to go one step further, by saying the Naval game tactical initiative should be decided by which side holds the weather gauge!

Importance of the weather gauge.
Holding the weather, or windward, gauge conferred several important tactical advantages. The admiral holding the weather gauge held the tactical initiative, able to accept battle by bearing down on his opponent or to refuse it, by remaining upwind. The fleet with the lee gauge could avoid battle by withdrawing to leeward, but could not force action. Even retreating downwind could be difficult once two fleets were at close quarters because the ships risked being raked as they turned downwind. A second disadvantage of the leeward gauge was that in anything more than a light wind, a sailing ship that is sailing close hauled (or beating) will heel to leeward under the pressure of the wind on its sails. The ships of a fleet on the leeward gauge heel away from their opponents, exposing part of their bottoms to shot. If a ship is penetrated in an area of the hull that is normally under water, she is then in danger of taking on water or even sinking when on the other tack. This is known as "hulled between wind and water". Finally, smoke from the gunfire of the ships to windward would blow down on the fleet on the leeward gauge. So it was common for battles to involve days of manoeuvring as one admiral strove to take the weather gauge from his opponent in order to force him to action, as at the battles of Ushant (1778), St Lucia Channel (1780) and the First of June (1794).

Only in heavy weather could the windward gauge become a disadvantage, because the lower gun ports on the leeward side of a ship would be awash, preventing her from opening her lower-deck ports to use the guns � or risking being swamped if she did. So, in strong winds, a ship attacking from windward would not be able to bring her heavy lower-deck guns into action, while the enemy ship to leeward would have no such problem as the guns on her windward side would be raised by the heel. For this reason, Admiral Rodney ordered his ships to attack the Spanish from leeward in the stormy weather at the Battle of Cape St. Vincent in 1780.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 9/1/2016 1:32:01 PM >

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RE: Naval part of the game - 3/23/2016 1:39:24 PM

Erik2

Posts: 786
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

Very interesting info, kirk23.
Maybe the devs will at some point open the game up to modding and you can give the naval part a treatment like you've done with other games

(in reply to kirk23)

Post #: 12

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/7/2016 6:54:35 PM

peterb1201

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2016
Status: offline

I'm currently reviewing the game for my web site. I agree the naval part of the game seems problematic.

I don't think "France can't defeat Britain at sea, normally" is necessarily a terrible design choice, but the way it's been implemented results in huge amounts of time wasted (at least in the 1805 campaign) for no possibility of success. Better to simply abstract it away as "Britain currently controls these sea zones, hope you don't try to transport troops via those" rather than spending time bashing my head against the wall. This is made worse by the retreat mechanics - Half the time I can't retreat on the initial encounter, but then I have to grind through two rounds of (losing) combat to be able to retreat. You could just save time by letting the French player retreat at first contact and lose half their fleet and get around the same result.

War-games should be about making interesting decisions. If there are no interesting decisions to be made in a given arena, abstract that part of the game away and don't waste the player's time.

If someone wants to make the counter-argument that interesting decisions can be made in the naval game, I'd like to hear it! Maybe I'm just wrong and not seeing them

(in reply to SAAvenger)

Post #: 13

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/7/2016 8:54:27 PM

deeter

Posts: 27
Joined: 12/16/2015
Status: offline

It is very possible to defeat the Royal Navy and eventually capture London. France must be committed to a naval strategy which means taking a lot of ship replacements, using any appropriate cards and looking for opportunities to defeat smaller detachments.

I've done this several time, both in beta testing and with the release version. That being said, the naval battles are superficial but the devs will be releasing a future DLC that beefs up that part of the game.

SPOILER: The French ships should only fire on a given RN ship until it is disabled, then move on, because once all the RN ships are disabled, the enemy will retreat leaving all those disabled ships as prizes. You can build up a fleet pretty quickly in this way.

Deeter

< Message edited by deeter -- 5/7/2016 8:57:31 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/7/2016 9:06:59 PM

peterb1201

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2016
Status: offline

I actually just managed to do what you describe in a game I played right after posting, so more fool me.

< Message edited by peterb12 -- 5/7/2016 9:14:13 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 5:41:08 AM

amtrick

Posts: 82
Joined: 12/30/2013
From: United States
Status: offline

Yeah, I generally keep adding to my fleet over the course of the game while conquering the continent and saving up the 2 Storm cards, the Mutiny card and the US Declares War card. Then I visit the wrath of God on the British fleets in Biscay and the Channel in one turn. It usually leaves the Brits so weak I can crush their fleets and slip Nappy's army across the Channel. It is over at that point.

What I don't like is the ability to use all your transport points every turn. The Brits just cruise around jumping into every French port region long enough to force the fleets out into the waiting jaws of the Brit fleets. I recognize that leaving even modest garrisons in these regions seem to deter the Redcoats, but there is something annoying about that.

Maybe it is just me.

BTW, nice to kirk23 on the forum. Loved your work and dedication to The Great War.

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Post #: 16

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 3:19:59 PM

*Lava*

Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
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It's been a long time since I studied the Napoleonic Wars, but my impression was that British Naval superiority was not only due to it's better officer corps but because the French Navy rarely put to sea to train due to the British blockade.

As far as the game goes, I think the naval side is fairly well represented. The French navy was a "fleet in being" meaning that by it's mere existence it was a threat to the British whose strategy was maintaining naval superiority. We have seen this in many instances in history.

By building up a "fleet in being" it forces it's adversary to also increase it's fleet to maintain naval superiority but in doing so, diverts resources from other aspects of their military, such as land forces. We see that when we have the opportunity to buy reinforcements in the game.

Now of course, Napoleon could have sought naval superiority at sea but it would have been a tough road given the almost continuous state of war on the European continent.

Having said that, perhaps indeed, Napoleon should have the option to challenge Britain at sea.

Here is how I would make that happen:

1) Let the player choose where to put new ships on the map

2) Rate the ships. Not all "ships of the line" were first rate ships. Let the ship level be equal to it's rating. So a first rate ship (3 decks, 100 guns) would be a level 4, for example. 2nd rates 3, 3rd rates 2.

3) Expand the ship reinforcements from 1 type of ship to 3; representing 1st, 2nd and 3rd rate ships.

4) 1st rate ships should only be available based on the amount of vessels in the fleet. I would say one 1st rate per every 10 ships would be a fairly good approximation for fleet actions. 1st rate ships should only become available for reinforcement once the "every 10 ships" rule is reached. The majority of ships should be 3rd rates. The British should also be able to reinforce their fleet with 2nd rates for every 5 ships and the French (since they didn't have 2nd rates) 1 in every ten.

5) Add an "upgrade" vessel card. When played, this card increases the rating of a selected ship and can only be used on 3rd rate ships.

Dunno if you all are up to getting that detailed into the Navy side, but it would certainly be more reflective of the Napoleonic period, end the complete unbalance in Naval battles and if nothing else, allow the players to pursue a Naval strategy with a bit more complexity thrown in to boot.

< Message edited by Lava -- 5/8/2016 3:29:00 PM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 3:41:52 PM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline

Without giving more value to territory, what is the point of pursuing a naval strategy? There is no real reason for France to leave the Continent. They can win without setting foot in England or Egypt.

(in reply to *Lava*)

Post #: 18

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 4:03:36 PM

*Lava*

Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
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The point of pursuing a naval strategy is to force Britain to divert assets away from land forces and force them to continue to build their fleet.

If the Brits lost even a few ships in battles, it would accentuate that strategy and keep them from building a large army to influence events in Europe and at minimum result in less amphibious operations which divert assets from the main fronts.

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 19

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 4:31:16 PM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline

Why not just build ground units that can defeat their forces in battle instead of naval units that will just sit in port? It's not like Nappy has a lot to do in between playing whack a mole with Austria and Prussia. Beating up an English incursion might provide him a little relief!

To me, there is just no reason to build French naval units. If France needed to leave the continent with X size army to win, even if they subsequently returned to the continent,then there would be a real reason to pay attention to the naval game. Until there is a reason I would prefer to make England build new ground units each turn to replace the ones I destroyed and gained cards and promotions doing so.

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Post #: 20

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/8/2016 4:58:05 PM

peterb1201

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2016
Status: offline

If you successfully conquer London, then Britain is in a state of permanent friendly neutral with you, and (as near as I can tell) stops spending political points and stops convincing other major powers to go to war with you. This gives France a pretty significant advantage for the rest of the game, basically allowing Napoleon to dictate the strategic terms of engagement on a per-power basis. I won the 1805 game (I think?) by mid-1807 by doing this.

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 21

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/9/2016 2:20:52 PM

amtrick

Posts: 82
Joined: 12/30/2013
From: United States
Status: offline

peterb12 is correct. I have successfully invaded England a number of times and each time it is "game over" and "victory screen" within 1 turn. So you can play a boring whack a mole game with Austria and Prussia or take the challenge of killing the snake by cutting off its head. I like the challenge.

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Post #: 22

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/9/2016 11:03:39 PM

Uncle_Joe

Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline

I honestly think the the naval war is just completely off.

It should be extremely hard to gain 'naval dominance' (ie, defeat the Royal Navy sufficiently to invade England) but on the other hand, it should be a lot easier to conduct limit naval operations. In the game, it seems that it's too easy to do the former (if you mass up and then play all of your 'screw you' cards at once) and on the flip side, it's too hard to do the latter (although with the current territory mechanics, here is little reason to even want to conduct naval operations).

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Post #: 23

RE: Naval part of the game - 5/10/2016 3:11:20 AM

James Ward

Posts: 1183
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Status: offline

I have invaded England before, by playing god with storm cards.

(in reply to amtrick)

Post #: 24

RE: Naval part of the game - 6/7/2016 6:00:32 PM

sbowyer

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/29/2014
Status: offline

The naval system does seem to be the weak point of the game, though one has to expect the French fleet to get the worst of it. They can only set up with superior numbers and attrition their way down. That doesn't really bother me.

The real problem for me is the extreme British mobility. Any port to any port in Europe? Sounds more like teleport. Fortunately, presence of a unit seems to deter the computer British, but wouldn't deter me as a British player. Smash ashore at each port, drive ships to sea, sink them, pull out and go to another. When Napoleon is away on one of many campaigns, come ashore and attack Paris. What is to stop the British from doing this? It seems a case of "you live because the computer is stupid". I wish coastal defense was more practical.

Actually defeating the British fleet and invading England should rightfully be very difficult, as various people have pointed out. I would like to see more strategy in naval combat. Main one I have worked out as French is to focus on only dismasting ships and then capturing them when they retreat.

I did defeat the British fleet once, but just stayed in occupation of the channel, just to try out French teleporting (err, I mean port to port movement). Revolutionized movement for Napoleon. Land in Spain, go back to port, put out the Austrians, go to the north coast of Warsaw. Sail another army to invade St. Petersburg and march to Moscow. Way too powerful...

(in reply to James Ward)

Post #: 25

RE: Naval part of the game - 6/8/2016 3:46:51 PM

amtrick

Posts: 82
Joined: 12/30/2013
From: United States
Status: offline

I agree, the teleporting of amphibious forces is not realistic. I realize it may have really simplified the developer's task (no transports to build and load and escort and unload) but in this case the abstraction is bit too abstract. If nothing else the game puts a movement limit for warships of three sea zones, while transports can navigate the entire shoreline of Europe in one turn! Hopefully this will be addressed in the naval upgrade.

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Post #: 26

RE: Naval part of the game - 7/19/2016 6:01:51 AM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

I think the naval game needs a new unit type TRANSPORT that is required for land unit sea moves,these transport ships,should be restricted to 3 area movement,same as any other fleet.

I would go one further, and change ships to a rating system:

3 = (3Decker) 1st/2nd rate.
2 = (2Decker) 3rd/4th rate.
1 = (1Decker) 5th/6th rate Frigates.

In combat all British ships get a +1 die roll.

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Post #: 27

RE: Naval part of the game - 7/23/2016 8:35:49 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
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Is there any plans to give ports a defence rating? Ports during the Napoleonic wars, were defended with FORTRESSES! Surely this strategic naval bonus, can be abstracted into the game?

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Post #: 28

RE: Naval part of the game - 8/18/2016 8:52:17 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

Naval game fix, minimum requirement suggestion:

1 = Remove 1 shot wonder ship sunk from the game!

2 = Remove Port - Port any number of sea area transport ( Beam me up Scotty)

3 = New ship type ( Transport ) that can carry no more than 3 Land unit's: 3 Infantry or 3 Cavalry or 3 Artillery, or any permutations off theses, 1 Infantry, 1 Cavalry & 1 Artillery.

4 = These new Transports move 3 sea areas as per Warships.

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RE: Naval part of the game - 8/18/2016 9:37:22 PM

kirk23

Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

If the game designers, ever see this, I have created a Naval Combat system, that reflects naval combat during the Napoleonic wars, more accurately than is currently available to the game. I have play tested the below system, to a new board game, I made for my own use! ( Any gamer's who are interested in Naval board games, I give you a ready made set of combat rules that work enjoy )

Napoleon Victory & Glory Naval Combat

Sequence of action.

1 = Each side rolls 1 d6, to see who gets the wind gauge, the player that gets, the highest die roll attacks first!

Weather gauge optional rule:

The player can choose to disengage,instead of attacking,since he has the weather gauge,he alone is in a position to dictate,when and if battle actually occurs! If he is the weaker force, the logical course of action would be to leave the battle area, with the knowledge that your stronger opponent, is powerless to attempt any pursuit.

2 = Each ship then rolls 1 die, in turn, to see if they can damage their target, a die roll of 1,2,or 3 = miss. A die roll of 4,5 or 6 = Hit.
(If this is the first hit, the target ship has sustained, then place a Light Damage marker, on the ship, to show that it has been damaged.)

3 = If the same ship is targeted a second time, by another ship, and it receives another hit, then remove the Light Damage marker, and replace it, with a Medium damage marker!
( Damage is cumulative )

4 = At the end of each round of combat, after all ships have attacked, the player may attempt to repair any damage sustained, by rolling 1 d6 per level of ship quality, for each of the damaged ships.
A roll of 6 is required to remove 1 step of damage. ( NB: Each ship can only remove 1 step of damage, regardless of the number of 6s rolled )

SHIP QUALITY LEVELS:

British = Level 4 ships.

France = Level 3 ships.

Russia & Turkey = Level 2 ships.

Cumulative damage table.

1 hit = Light Damage ( If this is the only damage, a ship sustains during a battle, after the battle is over, the ship then returns, to the nearest friendly port for repairs.
(It takes 2 turns or Months to repair Light Damage in port.)

2 hits = Medium Damage ( After the battle is over, the ship returns, to the nearest friendly port for repairs.
(It takes 3 turns or Months to repair Medium Damage in port.)

3 hits = Heavy Damage ( After the battle is over, the ship returns, to the nearest friendly port for repairs.
(It takes 4 turns or Months to repair Heavy Damage in port.)

4 hits = Critical Hit ( If a ship receives 4 hits, during the course, of any round of battle, the player then immediately rolls 1 d6, to see what level of damage is inflicted on the ship:

CRITICAL HIT RE-ROLL

A roll of 1,2,or 3 then the ship is Disabled, and it cannot attack for the remainder of the battle.
(If a player decides to retreat at the end of the battle, all ships that are in a disabled state, are captured by the enemy.)

A roll of 4 or 5 = Ship is immediately CAPTURED! ( Strikes its colours and surrenders )

A roll of 6 = Ship is SUNK!

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 9/1/2016 1:41:49 PM >

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Make it so!

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Post #: 30