RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Page: << < prev 207 208 [209] 210 211 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 5:30:20 PM

richlove

Posts: 196
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline

Approximately when are you planning to invade Wake Island? Do you have any sense of what the USN:IJN CV ratio will be at that time? Could you continue your advance if you lose this fight? Finally, to Bullwinkle's point, could John do anything decisive at Kwaj while your carriers are off station? Could he land more troops, or bombard, or fly in reinforcements? Could he unwind some of your gains from Thin Man?

I personally don't know which way I'd go. I'm glad I get to watch from the sidelines. This is riveting.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6241

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 5:42:11 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

It is a toss up. Given the strength I would not decline a battle if I thought it favorable. But knowing the extra force that John has there is no fault in declining an equal fight-which is about what it would be at this stage. An even up fight probably means trading ships which is not a bad thing. However, my perspective from an Allied standpoint is that as the year passes the onus for John to try and force an action grows. You gain an advantage with each arriving carrier. The opportunity then arrives for him to do something rash.

So, If it were me. I would continue with operations and use my carriers to support them. If he declines then so much the better as another objective falls. If he accepts, well then it is time for battle. But I would not necessarily go out looking for him. The last operation was a big failure for him as he really did not achieve much and burned up to way much fuel not doing so. His alternative lessen every day. A solid Japanese player would have no choice but to feel the pressure.

I think I am going to have to sleep on this and get back to you....

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6242

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 5:51:22 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Ross, I hope you read my post on the preceding page about your dream. :)

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 6243

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 5:56:43 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: richlove

Approximately when are you planning to invade Wake Island? Do you have any sense of what the USN:IJN CV ratio will be at that time? Could you continue your advance if you lose this fight? Finally, to Bullwinkle's point, could John do anything decisive at Kwaj while your carriers are off station? Could he land more troops, or bombard, or fly in reinforcements? Could he unwind some of your gains from Thin Man? ...

Good point, richlove. If I avoid a carrier battle, I can probably pull the trigger on the Wake Island invasion when Bunker Hill arrives. That would only delay things a few days. The invasion APAs leave Pearl tomorrow, and I think Bunker Hill et al will reach Pearl in perhaps five days? It wouldn't be stretch.

If the Allies lost a carrier fight, I'd have to postpone offensive activity like Wake, but I don't think John could unravel anything in the Marshalls now - the islands are too strongly held.

As for Kwaj, I'll know tomorrow. If my deliberate attack drops forts, then I think John will give up on the island as hopeless. I've had LRCAP over it more or less every day for ten days - no sign he's flying in reinforcements or supply. He hasn't sent in any bombardment TFs since the Kongos got turned back. I'm wondering if he isn't alarmed at the strength of the Allied "nest of bases."

I don't think an Allied attack against six forts can overcome a garrison in one turn, but I'll be disappointed if forts don't drop two or three levels.

(in reply to richlove)

Post #: 6244

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 6:03:29 PM

paullus99

Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline

If you can keep him occupied on multiple angles of advance, simultaneously, John will have a hard time concentrating his assets against you.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6245

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 6:17:08 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'd never heard that before, Moose. Or, if I had, I'd forgotten. By that standard, I've (intuitively or accidentally) done a good job staying on task here in the Marshalls.

We are entering the phase in which the only thing stopping the Allies from moving forward is KB. I'm satisfied now that I have learned enough and have enough assets to take or wear down any base for which I have troops prepped. I have troops prepped for all the Aleutians and all the remaining islands in the Marshalls and to the west (short of Truk). Each of these islands is strongly garrisoned, so each step takes time (organize, move, land, batter, rinse, repeat).

So beating KB would be decisive. But I don't know if I have the assets yet to have a 60/40 chance of winning. It's probably more like 51/49 at the moment (at least from visible factors).

Do not ever look for a fair fight with your carriers. Run from a fair fight. Your currency is time remaining; his is delay. Even if you win a fair fight the damage costs you many months' repair.

I disagree the KB is your only impediment. You obsess on it. It's in nearly every post. But if he lost it he still has huge numbers of torpedo 2Es, he has forts on many islands, he doesn't have to deal with replacement pools (much), he has interior lines, and he has unlimited tactical aircraft. The KB is a tool. It's not the game. Your carriers are a tool too. Their main purpose is covering landings to prevent loss of precious large, true amphibs. If your HRs allow, perhaps an oil raid or two. But your carriers are not decisive either. They're a thumb on the scale, a time saver. In many areas of the map they're actually a hindrance to movement forward. They're supply and fuel pigs. And islands don't sink and never need a shipyard.

He needs to slow you down and he needs VPs. He wants a fair fight. Things get much worse for him over the next year. Don't give him one.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6246

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 6:28:22 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I read your post and thought, "Hmmm. There's some wisdom there. I think I ought to listen."

On rare occasions, I go back and read a few pages of posts for one reason or another. When I do, I'm always a bit embarrassed (sorta like when I heard my recorded voices for the first time and thought, "Do I sound like that?"). I say things over and over and over. Me, I, me, I.

In isolation, taken one at a time, each post is fine. As a series of 10 posts, they seem clunky and verbose.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 6247

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 6:39:20 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

I know how easy it is to get micro in turn-by-turn mode. It's hard to step back and "chunk out" the map against time. I think you do this, but I'm not sure how many hops ahead you analyze. Before you know it it'll be 1/1/44. Then the summer of 44, and the end of the war is in sight. I'm in April 44 now, and it's not a good place to be in my game. Lokasenna has been thinking five steps ahead the whole way. I've learned a lot, but the past is the past.

I'm not sure at this point John teaches you anything you don't already know, and that can lead to mistakes. His letting you see his TFs day after day after day is just amazing to me in relation to my game. For one example.

Very soon--or now-you don't have to react to him any more. He has to react to you. I know you thought Nemo was the ultimate player. He was very, very good, and his central tenet, repeated ad nauseam, was determine your objectives and drive on them regardless of cost. Work the body, don't let him breathe.

Next row of islands? Good. What does the map look like on New Year's 1945?

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6248

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 6:49:49 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I do think that far ahead (sort of), though I often don't go into details for op sec reasons. But I have touched on the plan through the end of the year.

The main effort will continue to be in CenPac. There may be some selective island hopping - I've already bypassed Tabituea and I'm probably going to bypass Kusaie. I intend to hit Wake, Eniwetok, Ponape, and probably Truk. The Admiralties and vicinity are possibilities, as is Amchitka up north.

Realistically, by the end of the year I expect to have least Wake, Eniwetok and Ponape. If those three go well, there will be movement forward or laterally. This biggest question is whether I have time before winter to move on Amchitka and, if I do, whether I want to move everything north to make it happen. I'll make that decision by October 15.

As for '44, I know where I'm goin', but I aint sayin' yet.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 6249

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 7:35:21 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

Carpe Diem.
You may have better balance of forces in a month when your reinforcements are with the DS, but you may never get the opportunity to take on KB away from LBA.
The only negative for you is that he could potentially put out more BB/CA TFs to distract your strikes than you can? If you have some sacrificial low value merchies or AGs to offer (you can convert lots of ships to AGs to make up) it could help you.

Wild thoughts - has anyone ever ordered a carrier night attack on other carriers? No significant CAP to worry about and his radar is likely still poor. Not likely to succeed but wouldn't it be fun to watch!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6250

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 7:46:54 PM

poodlebrain

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline

The only way that the KB can link up with what you believe to be the AO TF during the first naval movement phase is for the KB to sail due west and the AO TF to sail due east. Otherwise one or both of them would have to sail full speed to link, which is doubtful. If you think the Japanese intention is to link for refueling the KB as soon as possible, then you can predict where that will occur with a pretty high degree of certainty. I'd be asking myself if I can take advantage of knowing where the KB is going to be, and that it will be using OPs at that location?

I see two possible courses of action that might give me the advantage I want. Either risking battle with an immobilized KB, or trying to ambush the mini-KB if it moves toward the KB. Personally, I'm not convinced there is enough advantage to initiating battle with the KB to justify the risks to operations you have planned for the near future. I'd be more inclined to try and ambush the mini-KB as I think it is a low risk move. Sailing NE from Maloelap at full speed would get you within range of the mini-KB if the mini-KB sails SE toward the KB, and you could possibly intercept the mini-KB outside the strike range of the KB, who will be immobilized while refueling. If the intercept fails you retire back to the Marshalls and resume preparation for other planned operations.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6251

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 7:59:11 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

So many possibilities! I can't wait to get the next turn (should be sometime this afternoon) to see what's what and to begin weighing and sifting.

Thanks for lots of good insights. It's pretty neat that good and experienced players see things differently. That's a reflection on the complexity of the game. If we all knew exactly what to do when, the game would grow stale pretty fast. No danger of that.

(in reply to poodlebrain)

Post #: 6252

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 8:03:49 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

If he really is refuelling right in the middle of your forces, then thats ballsy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6253

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 8:09:14 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

There's no doubt his AOs are there. It's possible he didn't know where my carriers were (he's had spotty detection). But he had to assunme they were within calling distance. Perhaps this raid and the various weird permutaitons - including the AOs - is why he unleashed that string of "Crazy!" posts in his AAR?

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 6254

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 8:10:45 PM

poodlebrain

Posts: 392
Joined: 10/4/2012
From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
Status: offline

I just happened to notice current locations for known forces dictating possible locations for the expected actions of those known forces. Sort of a happy coincidence rather than any superior skills on my part, and it was dependent on some of your comments, as well as those of others, with respect to your current situation. I wish I was as observant when I'm plotting my moves without the luxury of time pressure and the benefit of other peoples' perspectives.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6255

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 8:15:51 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

Going to be an interesting turn whatever happens!

I don't think I'd ever try that in all honesty, not where he is.

_____________________________

(in reply to poodlebrain)

Post #: 6256

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 8:26:42 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
In isolation, taken one at a time, each post is fine. As a series of 10 posts, they seem clunky and verbose.

Naaaah. You are being way to harsh on yourself. Not verbose, just too many words.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6257

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 10:26:11 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I'm not sure at this point John teaches you anything you don't already know, and that can lead to mistakes. His letting you see his TFs day after day after day is just amazing to me in relation to my game. For one example.

Very soon--or now-you don't have to react to him any more. He has to react to you. I know you thought Nemo was the ultimate player. He was very, very good, and his central tenet, repeated ad nauseam, was determine your objectives and drive on them regardless of cost. Work the body, don't let him breathe.

Next row of islands? Good. What does the map look like on New Year's 1945?

Yes. Good points all.

Nemo, I'd think, would take advantage of his opponent's mistakes in every way possible toward that objective. In this case, the solo-mini-KB has been one "mistake," the KB refueling and losing ops in range of the death star is another. I often say a mistake is not a mistake unless your opponent proves it so. The trouble in this game is you have so many to choose from it's hard to decide!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 6258

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/16/2016 11:56:20 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Ross, I hope you read my post on the preceding page about your dream. :)

It is my suggestion now that you do not engage in any fleet actions until I have had a chance to interpret my dreams. Only truly enlightened play will suffice for your cause and lead you to the Gates of Jade...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6259

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 12:11:36 AM

desicat

Posts: 542
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Ross, I hope you read my post on the preceding page about your dream. :)

It is my suggestion now that you do not engage in any fleet actions until I have had a chance to interpret my dreams. Only truly enlightened play will suffice for your cause and lead you to the Gates of Jade...

Danger - Once gain veering off into a Mandrake like thread.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 6260

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 12:23:34 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/18/43

Thin Man: Big developments regarding a potential carrier clash, but let me cover the action first.

The Allied attack at Kwajalein was a terrible disappointment - the results were the exact mirror image of John's attack yesterday - I lost 98 squads, he lost 9. The forts and terrain were important, but disruption had to be the major difference: not having the BBs go in to bombard. If I had known, I wouldn't have ordered the attack (I need the BBs where they are; Kwaj is secondary.) The troops are strong enough to withstand any possible counterattack, so I'll leave them to recover.

Down south, the same three USN DDs hit another (the same?) TF at Tabituea, sinking three xAK and two SC.

Now for the big developments. Death Star ended up where it was supposed to end up - it is just 13 hexes from Mini KB with Steroid KB two hexes further (no sign of the AOs). The oddest thing of all is that John seems to have no detection on any Allied carrier or combat TF. Is it possible such an immense concentration of ships could be so close to KB and John have no idea whatsoever? That's what the game info is telling me, but for all I know, John's map is lit up with Allied TF symbols 13 hexes SW of Mini KB.

I'm sending my carriers NE around six hexes. This will keep them about 15 hexes from Roi and Eniwetok, which are a threat, and about 10 hexes from Wake, which doesn't have a large number of aircraft. B24s and PBY4s have sufficient range to participate from Midway and Wotje/Maloelap, but the range is extreme enough they probably won't fly.

Do I dare do it? I'm leaning that way, but I haven't decided yet. I think I'm willing to take on KB in a fair fight, but what concerns me is the possibility of running across a combat TF or blundering into the 8 hex/7 hex disparity. On the flip side, the Allies have a bunch of BBs, so every carrier TF will have at one.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 6261

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 12:52:16 AM

Bearcat2

Posts: 577
Joined: 2/14/2004
Status: offline

"The oddest thing of all is that John seems to have no detection on any Allied carrier or combat TF. Is it possible such an immense concentration of ships could be so close to KB and John have no idea whatsoever? That's what the game info is telling me, but for all I know, John's map is lit up with Allied TF symbols 13 hexes SW of Mini KB. "

What is the weather over your TF; I think you are putting too much reliance on the detection levels and not enough on the enemy capabilities.

_____________________________

"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6262

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 12:56:33 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

For me as Allies, I always want the CV clash to be a knife fight and not a sword fight. Right now you have more fuel and more sorties to take advantage of. "IF" you're close enough and weather is good, you may get both AM and PM strikes in.

DL - click on the hex the DS is in, then slide the mouse over each TF icon. You should see any DL for any TF spotted.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 5/17/2016 12:59:58 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6263

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 1:57:12 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

To answer your A-B question, B is closer to your potential emergency port of Wotje (and your LBA in the Marshalls in general. A clear preference unless you want to interpose your ships between him and Truk. Even if you choose B, you can still interpose your ships because you are that much further west than he is.
Whatever you choose, good luck and good weather!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6264

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 2:09:59 AM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

The FOG of War about the Fog of War. You know yourself and you know the enemy, he knows himself but seems blind about his enemy. He is short of fuel, down on air frames and up of fatigue. You seem to have all the advantages and may even be between him and his bases that he would need to send any damaged ships too. You have a target rich environment, what would Halsey do?

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 6265

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 2:22:16 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Well, if you trash John's CV fleet then he will probably never be short of fuel.

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 6266

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 3:13:12 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I am truly undecided. On the one hand, I don't like going into a 50/50 battle in which defeat derails offensive activity for months probably. On the other hand, I seem to be in a perfect position with many advantages. How can I withdraw to the Marshalls?

I have to make the decision in an hour or two. I do not know which way I'm going to go.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 6267

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 4:10:55 AM

Flicker

Posts: 229
Joined: 11/24/2011
From: Rocket City USA
Status: offline

"Does the damned fool want to be blown up? Well, blow him up then. Give him hell, Captain Morton- as hot as you've got it, too." - Forrest at Athens, Alabama, 1864.

CR - great photos.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 6268

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 4:20:11 AM

1EyedJacks

Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline

I'd move your CV to point A. And move a BB STF 1 hex E of point A. If you have long-range search @ Wotje fly Naval Search from 0-90... Run all of your subs in towards where you think his Air Combat TF will be. Your subs kind of have him encircled so lets see how he likes a game of Bull in the Ring... :-)

Just me 2 cents - lol.

_____________________________

TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to Flicker)

Post #: 6269

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/17/2016 5:10:16 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Real time reports from the indecisive. I came. I stared. I thought. I haven't yet decided, but I'm leaning towards ordering Death Star into battle.

(in reply to 1EyedJacks)

Post #: 6270

Page: << < prev 207 208 [209] 210 211 next > >>

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent