Whats the life expectancy of scouts ?

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Whats the life expectancy of scouts ? - 4/9/2003 10:11:43 AM

Klinkenhoffen

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Hello all

How long do your scouts last in a battle ? What tactics do you use with them?

Mine keep becoming deceased thanks to Mr Viking, which leads me to think that I am not using them to the best of their abilities.
I've set fire range to 1 or 0 and tend to move them fast for the first couple of turns to position them ahead of my force. After that I slow them down but it still seems to be flawed.

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Scouts... - 4/9/2003 10:38:00 AM

Orzel Bialy

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My scouts don't have a very long life expectency in most battles...1/2 or more usually get toasted by battles end.

However, that is usually because I use them as bait...or march them out to take fire so as to leave the enemy units focused in the wrong direction...:)

The thing to remember is to move slowly...then try to keep them in cover as long as possible...houses, woods, etc. Also, don't march them "directly" into the areas where you expect the enemy to be gathering/moving...instead put them in areas where they can see the target area from a bit of a distance.;)

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- 4/9/2003 1:13:15 PM

rbrunsman

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You're doing the right thing if you've got JJ shooting at your scouts. His shots are giving you valuable info: He's telling you what units he has arrayed against you, pay attention to this.

Scouts are for gathering intel. They often do this with their lives. The only failed scout is one that dies without giving you any info.

Also, try not to move that last hex into a building to get a view of the vicinity. You've probably just run to get there and it makes you easy to spot. Move up to the hex with a good LOS, but don't enter it until the next turn. It is the rare scout that gets spotted after moving only one hex. (Note: I am simply incapable of following my own advice on this point.:o )

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- 4/9/2003 2:05:16 PM

VikingNo2

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Unless thats what I want you to think:p :rolleyes: :eek:

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- 4/9/2003 4:25:40 PM

Belisarius

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Scouts are cannon fodder. I use them to gather up as much intelligence I can before they get shot up. (usually in <10 turns)

One tactic is to have a few riding along with your tank formations. As you can't use the common practice of bailing the tank commander and send him forward to scout, have the scouts themselves perform that function.

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- 4/9/2003 4:30:23 PM

Klinkenhoffen

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How far ahead of the main force do you tend to position the scouts?

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- 4/9/2003 4:36:55 PM

Belisarius

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Klinkenhoffen
[B]How far ahead of the main force do you tend to position the scouts? [/B][/QUOTE]

Not far. 5 hexes in front of infantry, 5-10 hexes in front of mechanized troops and armor. The reason is, ofcourse, that if they spot larger concentrations of enemy units, I want to be able to get in there fast, and yet have some room for maneouver.

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- 4/10/2003 1:41:29 AM

rbrunsman

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I'll try to sneak a scout or two as far afield as I can. Knowledge is everything in this game. If I know what I am up against I can often deal with it even if it is a pretty tough nut to crack. I say push at least some of your scouts as far as you can. You may get lucky and spot your opponent's arty park or better yet his A0 unit.:cool: Besides that, it is very unnerving to see the "*" and not be able to figure out where the LOS is coming from. You drain you opponent's resources this way.

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- 4/10/2003 5:31:44 AM

challenge

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I try to get my scouts as far ahead as I can. Of course, as with all plans, this is subject to change without notice....

The only mission of scouts, as has been posted, is to give you information. All they need to do this is a good LOS and good cover. Getting a scout into position before the enemy moves in, then setting them down to watch the parade is one effective tactic. If you have jeeps, or their equivalent, transport them part of the way in those. Just don't move them into the front line of trees, or over the ridge in them -- I've lost quite a few kubelwagons that way, and the scout usually dies with the vehicle.

I've been lucky enough a few times that the enemy armor passes over the top of the scouts without seeing them -- by turning the weapons off, they won't fire even if the enemy is in the same hex. I don't usually get that lucky, but often they stay hidden to units adjacent to them.

Move them slowly, one hex at a time and, if you hold your breath just right, you can get them into the enemy back field. Once you fire, or move quickly, life expectancy goes way down. Put them someplace and forget about them for awhile: the longer a unit doesn't move, the better cover it finds -- there's modifiers to being spotted built into the game. While they may, at times, take out AT guns and/or mortars, they really aren't designed for that sort of thing.

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- 4/10/2003 10:18:20 AM

VonRay

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[QUOTE]One tactic is to have a few riding along with your tank formations. As you can't use the common practice of bailing the tank commander and send him forward to scout, have the scouts themselves perform that function.[/QUOTE]

Even if you don't "send them forward" they are sure alot better at spotting targets than the tanks are.

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- 4/21/2003 3:54:20 PM

Frank W.

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if 20 - 30 % of your scouts are still living and observing
enemy moves that�s enough IMHO.

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Yep - 4/22/2003 7:32:22 AM

Capt. Pixel

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by VikingNo2
[B]Unless thats what I want you to think:p :rolleyes: :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]

Absolutely! See my byline. :cool:

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Post #: 12

- 4/27/2003 4:29:20 PM

Klinkenhoffen

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I know that in the military you will do as you are told,
but who would want to be in a real recon unit given the short life expectancy?

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- 4/27/2003 11:01:56 PM

Capt. Pixel

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Here's where the 'simulation' goes a little sour.

Firstly, not all 'casualties' are fatal. It doesn't take much to take a soldier out of combat. Sever pain is usually sufficient.

Secondly, the 'All Knowing Eye' of the simulation commander doesn't really represent what happens on the battlefield (at least not in WWII era battles - this ain't JSTAR, kiddies)

So you've got a unit that, if kept alive, can provide realtime, up to the minute Intel on enemy activity without much risk to itself. It's no wonder that Scouts become priority targets. They're also usually the first units to make enemy contact and be found. This is where the 'Willy Meter' can really mess your Scouts up.

My casualties in the Scout corp usually run 75% or higher. But the information I can get from them can save countless other (more expensive) units the agony of Opp Fire from unseen enemies. If they're used properly, they can be well worth the expense.

Another obscure point on scouts is their use behind your own lines. If you suspect infiltrators or paradrops, having a few scouts running around behind your advancing forces can identify and thwart the enemies efforts.

Once the battle is joined, having a few Scouts riding with your armor can not only help protect the armor from Close Assaults during close-quarter combats, but also identify the source of the assault and allow for a targetted counter-attack.

When I purchase Scouts I only expect three things:

1) They probably won't survive the battle.
2) They are NOT combat units and should only engage in a firefight as a last resort - and maybe not even then.
3) Scouts collect Intel only, and Intel can win or lose the game.

Good Scouting :cool:

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Scouts on defense & in campaigns - 4/28/2003 10:02:51 PM

Raskolnikov

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I agree that the intel scouts can provide is critical, both for offensive and, equally, defensive actions.

Scouts with some kind of AT ability, e.g. GE Recon Team w/ Pzwurfmine, are very useful for scaring the hell out of an enemy. Although they're not necessarily going to do much damage, the prospect of losing a MBT to a 22pt Inf unit can often be enough to force an opponent to at least slow up their advance, if not actually alter its line. Large numbers of scouts (perhaps w/ AT teams) deployed in depth can be extremely effective in this manner.

The cheapness of scouts also means that one can call in Arty or Air support into the area they occupy without being too worried.

In campaigns, I think it is always best to buy scouts as support units, not core. While the prospect of 100+ Exp scouts is enticing, I have found it most unusual for a recon unit to survive more that three battles, and, though they are very cheap to replace, I feel one is better off investing the points into a unit which has a greater prospect of survival & thus can take greater advantage of the potential for improvement offered by campaings. (This, of course, applies to all units with low survival rates - scouts, recon jeeps, FO, snipers, AT teams.)

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- 4/29/2003 1:23:39 AM

Maliki

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I have been playing alot of the WWII campaign,checking out the different nationalities and equipment,and i must say that my scouts are useless.They either take casaulties or take casualties and run away without ever seeing anything.If i do manage to get them to stay in a hex near where they were taking fire from they never see anything anyways:mad:.In missions where i'm attacking i have started to just use armor, and advance them very slowly when i get to the enemies deployment side.When defending i just throw a line of snipers out in front of my forces,in good covering terrain, and wait until contact is made.Normally if i don't op fire i'll get to see what they have coming at me and they'll never notice the one guy sitting in the bushes taking notes.I figure its better to lose a sniper or two than a whole squad of scouts.Though i'm still new at this game and maybe i'll get more skilled and less unlucky in my use of scouts as i gain experience.

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Scouts - 4/29/2003 2:06:23 AM

Raskolnikov

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The trick with scouts is to move slowly and not to fire; if you are spotted & fired upon, retreat.

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- 4/29/2003 2:35:53 AM

Maliki

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Yeah i've done that,thats why i put in that unlucky comment,my scouts are bullet magnets.When on advance missions i've noticed that no matter what unit you are using you need at least one full turn of being in the same spot to see where the unit that is firing at you is,and often it takes at least two units with a line of sight to that hex to observe said unit/s.Thats why i started using armor,their better able to sit there and take a couple rounds of fire without being destroyed or rendered ineffective.Though i'm guessing that once i advance into the later war years in my campaigns i will have to rethink this tactic as the armor killing power of infantry etc. will become greater.

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- 4/29/2003 3:30:30 AM

Scharfsch�tze

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I love scouts!

Unlike many of the previous posters, I think that scouts are worthy combat troops, mainly because they carry grenades. Mount them on tanks, preferably mixed with AT teams, suppress enemy troops with artillery or other armour, then move up with the tank carrying the scouts, dismount them, shoot, if they retreat, mount, follow up, dismount, fire, ad nauseam. Let the scouts do the firing!

Same with the AT team against hard targets. The idea is to retain the AFVs move to maintain pressure and preferably retreat to a favorable position when the enemy is done.

Also dismount the scouts to move up a ridge or into a wood you have been hiding your AFV behind, get that look, and if there are enemy nearby, open fire to make them use up their opfire or cause a button up. Expect causalities. Then move your AFV in for the kill. With large-bore ordnance this is especially effective.

IMHO a worthy combination of tank riders is one Recon Patrol, one ATR and HEAT AT-team, rarity allowing...

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Great! - 4/29/2003 11:44:41 AM

WhiteRook

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scharfsch�tze
[B]I love scouts!

Now here is a man with a passion for scout units! :D
Scharfsch�tze I take my hat off to you for this post, very well put. :)

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- 4/30/2003 9:54:56 AM

Klinkenhoffen

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While I have played Steel Panthes for a while it is only recently that I have been playing PBEM.

In that short time I have learnt the importance of the scouts. I have changed tacked now. Move slow and don't shoot ( except Mother that silly click of the mouse in my last turn at your Tiger. I didn't mean to do that. Dohh).

I also like snipers. Fairly good spotting, can call in the arty and take the occational pot shot.

klinkenhoffen

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- 5/5/2003 8:56:50 PM

Irinami

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Scharfsch�tze, are you an Armored Cavalry kinda' guy or what? :eek: There's a man who understands that A-Cav and Recon's job isn't to "drive ahead until they blow up--that's where the enemy is!"

Maliki, set your Scouts' Op-Fire range to 0 (easy way to do this is to go to the Platoon Commander and choose 'Change whole formation,' then set their range to 0. Note that Company commanders will only change themselves--ie, "Whole Formation" only counts for that letter of units, eg E0-E9, not E-I Pl's.). Part of the spotting routines rely on opfire range of the person you (or they) are trying to spot. If you're really paranoid, turn off the unit's weapons too. I too hated scouts until I learned this. Now, I have scouts that can eat the rations right out of an enemy unit's pocket without being spotted! :D

Like rbrunsman, my scouts would live long and prosper if I didn't have that itchy trigger finger.

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- 5/5/2003 9:32:47 PM

Raskolnikov

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]There's a man who understands that A-Cav and Recon's job isn't to "drive ahead until they blow up--that's where the enemy is!"[/B][/QUOTE]

That's the job of those M4s. :D

Rask.

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