RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 5:32:40 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

...I don't think you are playing sloppy at all....

Those comments had been made before Operation Thin Man got underway. I think the success of the operation., followed by the Battle of Wake Island, addressed any concerns about how the Allies stand.

But it was interesting to me, at the time those comments were made that some readers saw things so much differently than how I perceived them. I think that was partly attributable to the conclusion of the Battle of Sumatra. Forumites - especially those (like Yaab) following John's AAR - naturally felt like John had achieved a great success. But I felt like it was all part of a larger plan yeilding decisive victories in the Pacific (Circus and Thin Man) and establishing a good foundation to build on.

That is one of the effects of having people "parachute in" to an AAR and reading a couple of posts - they get a quick impression but not the whole story of what is going on.

I thought your handling of the Sumatra situation was masterful. You made the decision not to waste further assets trying to save an impossible situation and then through a mixture of good tactics and psych-ops you dragged that defence out far longer than most of us could.

The loss of CA Pensacola was probably unavoidable to pull off your Wotje landings and defence. It showed John you would not abandon the sheep to his DD wolves. He had to bring much stronger stuff to hunt your transports.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 5:37:38 PM

Canoerebel

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That's exactly right about browsing an AAR (especially a remarkably verbose one).

And a related challenge is that browsing readers sometimes request information that was provided in great detail a few pages earlier.

That's just part of maintaining an AAR.

It turns out I did have a pretty good handle on what was developing in the Pacific, but my record in making predictions and analyses in the game has been spotty. Back in '42, I felt like the Allies were doing very well in China. John apparently felt that Japan was doing well, as noted by a few forumites. I predicated the Allies would hold the Changsha line. My prediction proved incorrect.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/23/2016 5:40:10 PM >

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Post #: 6572

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:05:00 PM

Canoerebel

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9/28/43

Flying Trapeze: The Allied amphibious armada and Death Star are now in proximity and ready to close on Wake Island. The amphibs are 10 hexes out. If that TF makes six hexes tonight, D-Day will be the day after tomorrow. If it makes less than six hexes, I'll wait another today to make sure there's plenty of daylight for the landings (so that both phases can be used).

There are lots of IJN subs in the vicinity, but no encounters on the day. No sign of enemy combat ships or carriers. Same number of aircraft and troops on the island.

A sub hit xAK Africa Maru near Saipan - the fourth score in three days in that area (two E and an AO being the others).

Thin Man: Allied AV at Kwaj up to 155, so I doubt John will be able to evict this lodgement. The plan is to just sit there until events (hopefully) make Kwaj irrelevant, so that John either withdraws or gives up on supplying this island.

SigInt confirmation today that Zuikaku indeed went under. She joins Kaga on the "for sure" list of fleet carriers. I counted on those two - now lets see if one or two more happen to join the list (possible, not probable). Enterprise, Hornet and Princeton disbanded at Pearl. Repairs commence immediately for the CVL. Repairs plus upgrade for Hornet. I'll wait a few days for more yard room for Enterprise.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:14:28 PM

paullus99

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I'm still impressed with your lack of carrier losses to date.....

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Post #: 6574

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:21:44 PM

Canoerebel

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I am not a superstitious soul, else I would "knock on wood" and refrain from commenting, lest kharma frown upon me mightily.

As I write this, I know that every sortie by a carrier TF will draw John's rapt attention and his subs. I know that eventually something bad will happen somewhere. But, of course, now is not the time to avoid contact or risk or danger. So Death Star sails with full knowledge that it isn't immortal but its mission is important.

To this point, I've lost CVE Prince William in this game. That's it. Until nine turns ago, that was the only carrier that had been sunk in the entire game, Allied or Japanese.

I've been pretty cautious with Allied carriers, as John has been with KB, but several fleet carriers have been damaged in action: Wasp in early January near Ceylon (by divebombers at long range) and Enterprise, Hornet and Princeton in the recent battle.

John had a number of carrier damaged earlier: CVs Junyo (by sub near Rabaul) and Hiyo (by 4EB near Singapore) and CVL Zuiho (by sub near Sabang) come to mind.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/23/2016 7:24:34 PM >

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Post #: 6575

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:25:14 PM

witpqs

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A very important success on your part considering the additional IJN carriers in this scenario.

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Post #: 6576

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:30:51 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've been using float plane squadrons to train on sweep and naval bombing missions since the outset of the war. (This is possible because the last Japanese sub seen along the west coast was before the invasion of Sumatra a year ago.)

I am using Marine figher squadrons on the carriers. My CVEs are primarily used as fighter platforms (not exclusively, but primarily). And some of my fleet carriers have double the usual number of fighters. This is especially so now that KB has been whittled down a bit so that I am not expecting a naval battle at Wake Island - I'm more concerned about John loading up Wake with 300 Vals and Judys.

P.S. I don't think Wake has an air HQ, thus probably not a torpedo threat.

Dunno if you have house rules but once I start to get a sufficient flow of aircraft I expand every 8 or nine plane TBF squadron that arrives on a CVE or CVL. They then are used to start a massive training program. Carrier aircraft pilots got to have some search and ASW skills as well so they take a little more training. I expand and go all out in mid to late 43. And yes, I use a lot of Marine squadrons on my carriers as well. Expand and train...That is the buzzword. If you have not got them yet, you are due to get reliable torpedoes soon. Makes those TBFs so much more useful. I really do not like small squadrons and prefer a small carrier to have one large type and then mix them up within the carrier TF.

I consider it a proplem in the game that the US has very few options for training torpedo pilots in 1942. Japan has plenty.

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Post #: 6577

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:31:59 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's exactly right about browsing an AAR (especially a remarkably verbose one).

And a related challenge is that browsing readers sometimes request information that was provided in great detail a few pages earlier.

That's just part of maintaining an AAR.

It turns out I did have a pretty good handle on what was developing in the Pacific, but my record in making predictions and analyses in the game has been spotty. Back in '42, I felt like the Allies were doing very well in China. John apparently felt that Japan was doing well, as noted by a few forumites. I predicated the Allies would hold the Changsha line. My prediction proved incorrect.

Right on brother! Oh BTW will you put up a screenie showing the victory point tallies?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:33:56 PM

Canoerebel

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LOL. See end of previous page, you Line State rascal. (Zuikaku's points have since been added.)

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Post #: 6579

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 7:35:43 PM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Dunno if you have house rules but once I start to get a sufficient flow of aircraft I expand every 8 or nine plane TBF squadron that arrives on a CVE or CVL. They then are used to start a massive training program. Carrier aircraft pilots got to have some search and ASW skills as well so they take a little more training. I expand and go all out in mid to late 43. And yes, I use a lot of Marine squadrons on my carriers as well. Expand and train...That is the buzzword. If you have not got them yet, you are due to get reliable torpedoes soon. Makes those TBFs so much more useful. I really do not like small squadrons and prefer a small carrier to have one large type and then mix them up within the carrier TF.

I consider it a proplem in the game that the US has very few options for training torpedo pilots in 1942. Japan has plenty.

I've never expanded an aircraft squadron before. Never. Not because I can't or there's a house rule. It's because I've never tried before. I'll look for the buttons and see if I can figure it out (ought to be simple). Great suggestion.

Yes, training TBF pilots is a huge problem.

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Post #: 6580

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 9:07:32 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

LOL. See end of previous page, you Line State rascal. (Zuikaku's points have since been added.)

I was the one who wanted to see the ratios and what kinds of points the IJ have (killing stuff vs bases)
I think the Allies have a bit of a hump but I am thinking 1:1 by 1944? 2:1 by 1945?

There was an earlier post .. But I think the key to IJ victory is a balance of the accumulation of killing stuff through offense initially and then a defensible perimeter right around mid-1943 .. If the IJ have not committed the supply and engineers to the task .. Downfall is certain .

I think CR is about to locate and occupy everything not prepared for defense

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 5/23/2016 9:10:38 PM >

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Post #: 6581

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 9:13:55 PM

Canoerebel

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When we resumed the game January 3, 1943, I was quite pleased with the points ratio. John led by 17k, almost identical to his current lead, but that's probably going to shrink a bit as some other carrier kills are confirmed (three or four CVL and perhaps another CV or two).

I know points are always an underlying issue because they will have an impoact when auto victory becomes a possibility. So I keep VP in mind as I play. But, if I can say this properly, VP aren't an issue right now. In some ways Japan builds its empire as a house of cards. If the economy crumbles, the Allied player is then in a position to wrack up points quickly.

But I'm not counting on the economy crumbling. I've focused more on the Japense navy. I believe that the empire will collapse once the navy ceases to exist as an effective fighting force. If that theory is correct, and if I am successful destroying the navy, then there will come a day when the Allies can truly go wherever they wish to. The objective there would be to create big airfields from which industry could be targeted.

So whether I go forwards or sideways right now is immaterial if I can find and hit John's ships.

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Post #: 6582

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 9:40:44 PM

Crackaces

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If CR kills stuff at a ratio less than 1:1 eventually the 17K deficit will be made up. I am not sure enough stuff is there without occupying bases that adds to the Allies and more so subtracts from the IJ's balance .

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Post #: 6583

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 9:56:07 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

So whether I go forwards or sideways right now is immaterial if I can find and hit John's ships.

Egads! You've caught John's "Hulk Smash" syndrome!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 6584

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 10:21:31 PM

Canoerebel

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9/29/43

Flying Trapeze: The amphibs, covering carriers and combat ships are in place to commence landing tomorrow, September 30. The landings will be preceeded by two bombardment TFs (one fast BB, one slow). One slow BB and two DDs will be embedded with the assault TF. Two combat TFs will provide protection. The carriers will stand off one hex, with all dive bombers set to naval strike priority, ground strike secondary (hoping for an afternoon bombing run).

The carriers will be missing one member, as a sub puts two TT into CVE Sangamon. She has 40 SYS/75 FLT, so she's badly hurt but has a slim chance. She'll take two escorting DDs and follow an ASW TF to Pearl. That's further than Midway, but either way she's probably going to encounter subs.

Don't you dare mention kharma! :)

I think this invasion is set up well, but atolls are touchy things. If it works it'll be due to prep (both units at 100%) and pre-invasion bombardments. If it doesn't work it's because of forts and failure of the pre-invasion bombardments and anything John might throw at my guys to mess up timing or cohesion. This could range from conquest on D-Day to opening act on a boondoggle.

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Post #: 6585

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 10:54:26 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

I think this invasion is set up well, but atolls are touchy things. If it works it'll be due to prep (both units at 100%) and pre-invasion bombardments. If it doesn't work it's because of forts and failure of the pre-invasion bombardments and anything John might throw at my guys to mess up timing or cohesion. This could range from conquest on D-Day to opening act on a boondoggle.

How are you fixed for Engineers?

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Post #: 6586

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 11:03:31 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

1. 1st Marine Division, destroyed at Sabang 2.5 months ago, is rebuilding at Pearl Harbor. Presently the division has 160 AV, so it's making good progress. But the unit arrived at San Fran with 40 experience and 40 morale. So it's not going to be battle worthy for a long time. The best thing I can probably do is land her at a poorly defended base where she can march inland and pick up experience fighting weak enemy units.

How about Australia? (We're off to see the wizard . . .

)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/23/2016 11:46:28 PM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

I think this invasion is set up well, but atolls are touchy things. If it works it'll be due to prep (both units at 100%) and pre-invasion bombardments. If it doesn't work it's because of forts and failure of the pre-invasion bombardments and anything John might throw at my guys to mess up timing or cohesion. This could range from conquest on D-Day to opening act on a boondoggle.

How are you fixed for Engineers?

No combat engineers - only the engineers organic to the two units. I do have an engineer unit and a base force in a separate TF prepared for occupation duty.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 2:40:51 AM

T Rav

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I would say Fortuna vs Kharma. Fortuna is a capricious goddess. Under Fortuna, it is less whether you had a good or bad intent, but just a frown from a capricious goddess. Keep pressing the onslaught. This is just to keep you humble.

T Rav

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Post #: 6589

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 2:59:02 AM

Canoerebel

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When it comes to email communications, John III occasionally does things that make me scratch my head or pull my hair out. That was the case with consecutive emails today - small things, but things nonetheless.
"
First there was this email preceding the turn in which CVE Sangamon took two torpedo hits: "You want to finish September with a bang? This could qualify..."

Regular readers know I've asked him dozens of times to refrain from giving spoilers when he sends a new turn. He's done better since we resumed the game, but from time to time can't help himself. This is the second or third instance in the past ten days.

Second there was this email after I sent him the 9/30 turn, which includes the invasion of Wake Island: "Don�t want you stressing on when you�ll get a turn back. I�ve run the turn but have a meeting to attend from 6-8pm. Turn will be sent after that."

Okay, that was nice to give a heads up...but why the added, "I've run the turn," which carries the implied, "I know what's happened but you're not going to find out until later tonight."

I won't reply to either email. It's just one of the small vexations of playing the legendary John III.

My guess? The turn couldn't have been a spectacular success for him or he'd have posted in his AAR. I also doubt it was a complete success for the Allies, because he's having too much fun with the drama.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 3:08:49 AM

ny59giants

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ASW TF composition - Right now I would have multiple 3 ship TFs made up of Cannon and/or Edsell Class DEs OR Sims and/or Fletcher Class DDs. They have your best ASW devices until next upgrade in 11/43 by the Gridley Class DDs.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 3:44:37 AM

Canoerebel

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I have all kinds of ASW TFs, depending on what's available. Right now, the invasion includes SC, AM, KV, PF, and DD in ASW roles. I probably don't have them optimally configured, but I probably don't have the CV TFs, combat TFs, or amphibious TFs optimally configured either. In this case, the need to move quickly right on the heels of the Battle of Wake Island required all sorts of compromises and innovations in order to strike quickly.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 11:36:27 AM

ny59giants

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I'm reading that its more important to flip turns than take some time when the fleet was at Midway to organize your TFs better. So, if and when, John's subs put a few CVs and BBs in drydock, that it will be ok? Maybe it's my OCD-ness, but I do tend to micro-manage my CV TF and fast BBs.

Did you take time to assign some FPs from your CA/CL to perform ASW duty? Since your going almost due west, I would have some on night naval search with a small arc of 250 to 290 degree and then some on daytime ASW search in same arc.

I say all of this because if I was in John's shoes I would be relying on my sub fleet to wreck havoc right now. If he can increase the number of damaged fleet CVs over the next few months while the Unryu Class CVs start to come out then another CV clash may be more likely to occur. Don't want you to catch any 'victory disease' that some other posters here seem to be feeding you.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 12:20:16 PM

JohnDillworth

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Perhaps I can help with Johns email. I have an advanced degree in passive-agressive behavior. Let's start by renaming all your CV's under construction after ones you sunk in the Battle of Wake. So if and when he sinks one he will be reminded of his own shame

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Post #: 6594

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 12:52:29 PM

Canoerebel

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Hey, John, good idea!

Regarding the turn that John had run but couldn't send, but that he'd send when he got home from his meeting....he hasn't sent.

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Post #: 6595

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 1:00:37 PM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
I'm reading that its more important to flip turns than take some time when the fleet was at Midway to organize your TFs better. So, if and when, John's subs put a few CVs and BBs in drydock, that it will be ok? Maybe it's my OCD-ness, but I do tend to micro-manage my CV TF and fast BBs.
....

I don't flip turns - not often anyhow. I usually spend hours on each one of mine. John probably doesn't have that luxury since he's playing three games.

The reason I haven't "optimally configured" TFs in certain ways is that this op has followed so closely upon Operation Thin Man and the Battle of Wake Island that there hasn't been time to organize everything to the nth degree. Some ships have been damaged. Some have been detatched to escort damaged ships home. Others have short legs. So what I'm left with is not optimally configured for any one mission. I don't have perfect ASW configuration. My carriers don't have 100% complete aircraft squadrons (I replaced some losses - especially fighters - but most squadrons are under 100%).

But I did manage to replenish sorties and torpedoes, and there are enough aircraft and ASW and combat ships, and bombardment ships, etc. to do the job that needs to be done (I hope). And moving fast was more important than remaining at Midway or getting more ships, etc.

There are extremes of play, I suspect. Some players are inclined to organize so carefully and methodically that they are tardy in moving. At the other extreme, some players move fast and don't attend properly to the zillion details to add to success. In between there are gradations - sometimes preparation is necessary and possible. Other times it may be necessary to sacrifice preparation in order to move quickly.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 1:33:26 PM

AcePylut

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In other words....
BANZAI!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 1:53:32 PM

Canoerebel

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Don't say that! Anything but that!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 2:27:01 PM

JohnDillworth

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Great name for an Essex Class CV. Just sayin

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/24/2016 2:35:02 PM

Canoerebel

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It would be appropriate at some later point in the war to christen a new Essex class carrier USS Sumatra. That would be in harmony with the USS Corregidor.

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Post #: 6600

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