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RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/18/2012 3:05:08 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I could, maybe, upgrade this scenario by removing regimes, going back to 14 players. It also could be possible to increase units cost.


I don't think the number of regimes is a problem, most of them are so small that they take just a few seconds to process. The big ones were the US and GB, those took the most time.

Again, I think the movement rates and the timescale are off. I think engineers are underpowered in terms of engineering points per unit.

The unit costs and sft build costs should go up considerably, as long as the AI actually has to pay them. I suspect the problem is that the AI gets free stuff so much it blows up the unit count and craters the game.



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Post #: 61
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/18/2012 1:16:32 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, but it´s possible that the number of possible interactions with other regimes is driving the Big countries AI crazy.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 62
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/19/2012 5:39:36 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Yes, it could be that, the game didn't literally crash, it just locked up or appeared to lock up. I could have let it go for a few more days but it truly seemed to be locked as opposed to just grinding through something.



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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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Post #: 63
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/3/2013 9:11:58 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I made an experimental version of GD 1900 mod, returning the number of regimes to 14. If this version works well, I will rework the tech tree in order to improve gameplay. Is anyone interested in this new version?

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Post #: 64
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/3/2013 9:20:19 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		Yes I am really interested. GD 1900 is a my favourite ATG scenario .

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Post #: 65
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/5/2013 7:57:57 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Hopefully it's obvious that I am also interested. What sort of improvements did you have in mind ?

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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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Post #: 66
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/6/2013 11:37:27 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		This version is an experimental one, and will only decrease number of regimes to 14. If this results in stable gameplay, then next step would be to rework the tech tree, and adding events to allow the AI to make research, maybe adding naval units to AI regimes too. I´m thinking in a more complex tech tree, allowing players to pursue different strategies, while the AI would be given the techs in their historical year.But I´m also willing to know what the GD fans want....

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Post #: 67
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/7/2013 8:40:16 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Well, I really like the tech bleed feature, and I also like the city upgrade feature. I think engineers are underpowered and I don't feel the time scale and movement rates are all that realistic. I feel that the unit cost to construct should be a lot higher. At least I do so in the hope that the AI will have to pay for it because it goes absolutely ape sh*t building shell units by the tens of thousands.

On this scale I'm not sure what an SFT represents, so many 1000's of soldiers per sft point etc. But the cost to effectiveness ratio's seem a bit off somewhere.

I would hope that the nation limit eliminates problems I had with the mod, or at least delays them until I can smash some of the stronger regimes down a bit. Assuming I do that is..



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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 68
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/7/2013 8:41:35 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		The next game I play of this I am going to be GB that way I can eliminate the 10,000 cargo ship unit problem that I suspect is at the heart of the problems with the game locking up.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 69
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/10/2013 12:30:16 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Unit scale is
1 Infantry SFT=20 infantry squads
1 Machinegun or AT item SFT= 20 units of this equipment
1 vehicle or aircraft SFT=20 vehicles or aircraft
1 Ship=1 ship
1 Artilley SFT= 20 guns

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 70
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/10/2013 3:49:17 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
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From: Over the hills and far away
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I made an experimental version of GD 1900 mod, returning the number of regimes to 14. If this version works well, I will rework the tech tree in order to improve gameplay. Is anyone interested in this new version?

I am most interested in a new or just a usable version. The Bombur Mod 1900 was my favourite.
With resources. Please, oh Great Bombur .

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Post #: 71
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/10/2013 2:59:43 PM   
Bombur

 

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Status: offline 		You mean the expanded resources mod, which allows you to transport resources?

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Post #: 72
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/10/2013 5:05:04 PM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		I just loved the look and feel of the 1900 mod. 1900 is such a good start right before flight and the mass employment of MG's.
Resources are important for me in random games as it adds a whole level to the geography but I realise it is very hard
or maybe not possible for the AI. I just liked a lot about that mod, the plethora of units and the cool graphics.
When technology is made very expensive the spending of PP's is an agonizing process. You want better infantry but the money!!!

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Post #: 73
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/14/2013 12:21:32 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I´m currently improving Bombur mod for Global domination. If the whole thing worls well, it will be possible to revert-engineer the mod creating a second random mod 1900....But, as far as random games are of concern, I´m more interested in the Bombur mod 1930. I think it will result in better gameplay with all these custom units.

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Post #: 74
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/14/2013 1:02:01 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		I will gratefully take whatever you produce and thank you very much for it. My only complaint was that in a random game
(which i play exclusively) I get too many resources in the pile at the start and do not have to work for them.
Thank you.

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Post #: 75
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/15/2013 12:49:54 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I´m currently improving Bombur mod for Global domination. If the whole thing worls well, it will be possible to revert-engineer the mod creating a second random mod 1900....But, as far as random games are of concern, I´m more interested in the Bombur mod 1930. I think it will result in better gameplay with all these custom units.


I'm liking the looks of the 1930 mod, haven't had the time to try it yet, too many things to do. But, I'll get around to it.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 76
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 12:51:24 AM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		I like the way the 1930 mod looks too.
Can somebody tell me how to adjust the (in my opinion) overabundance of resources?
I do not know how to do much with the editor.

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Post #: 77
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 10:50:07 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I would guess you just toned down the number of production points that each location had, that produces resources. Either that or you change the cost (in production points) of each resource type...

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Post #: 78
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 4:37:35 PM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		The way it works now, in a random game, you start with plenty of oil and ore and then get something like 2000 of each per turn regardless
of what you own or build up rendering the resource situation meaningless. I would change that if I knew how. I know there are AI issues
but the old resource mod where resources had to be connected and developed added much to the game for me. I like that geographic dimension.
That is why I would like to see farms and lumbering and other economic things. It is not for everybody and I know that.

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Post #: 79
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 4:43:43 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Hmmm...

It sounds like an even easier fix. I might look into what is required. But no promises...

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Post #: 80
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 5:18:03 PM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		I am just saying what I like. Not demanding changes forced on everybody else. Some people do not care to imagine
where resources come from or want to develop them. It is just part of my fun. I like seizing oilfields and rich mining areas
and building roads/rails to the same.

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"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 81
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 6:57:18 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Im quite sure that bombur can figure out how to add resources to a mod, that are produced by locations. I think its just a matter of time before he does so. :)

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Post #: 82
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 2/20/2013 9:17:30 PM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline 		Bombur is my hero.

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Post #: 83
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/5/2016 1:00:47 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Oh and the city build up is a great improvement, especially for a small nation against larger AI nations. One thing I noticed though is that the city names get washed out when upgrading. Not a big deal but it seems like it could be avoided ?


That is something that intrigues me as well.
Is it trick to let city/locations names intact when exchanging it into other loc type via engineers?
I don't like all those unnamed places like "Town" or "Major City".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I could, maybe, upgrade this scenario by removing regimes, going back to 14 players. It also could be possible to increase units cost.


UK is key player in turn processing, as far as I see. Does AI use the same rules as human player? I mean in paying for new units/hq. If AI pays in PP, then maybe increasing number of PP for creating new units would decrease number of units on map. AI creates many units with only w few soldiers inside.

I like this scenario much. I know that 14 regimes will improve performance a lot, but all those small regimes gives a lot flavour to mod. They do not consume much time. I even set some of them into sleeping mode in my version of mod. I think of making it costly for creating new units on map as main factor in improving performance. Maybe 3 PP for unit and 5 PP for HQ should help?

PS:
"AI creates many units with only w few soldiers inside."
Example: UK produces Torpedo Boats and sends them 1 in a fleet against me. I can see "1246th Division" of British 1-ship Torpedo Boats fleet.
For comparison: playing as USA I created "133rd Division" right now (round number 20).

< Message edited by Hanti -- 6/5/2016 1:19:51 AM >

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 84
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/5/2016 11:19:45 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I did some testing with my version of scenario.

1. I play both USA and UK. Turns of the rest of the AI world takes between 11 - 13 minutes (tested till 13 turn, the end of 1902).
2. I set PP for forming new units - 2 PP for unit, 3 PP for HQ. Still I can see "298th Division" of Benelux in 13th turn. So perhaps higher values should be set. AI is set to use PP (no free units).
3. I used "AI minimum stackpoints in unit 25" instead of 15 and "AI minimum stackpoints in unit optimally 25" instead 20. Maybe too low. Still many units with few rifles inside.
4. I used new resource costs for entire forces. Level 1 units now costs 6 res, level 2 - 12 res, level 3 - 18 res, etc. "Resources" are "ore" renamed. I renamed it because infantry and staff units also need it. It should be also limiting factor.
5. Playing as UK I could build 26 Protected Cruisers in Australia in 13 turns (till Dec 17 1902). Too many by large margin, AFAIU how they built cruisers in XX century. It is also possible to build battleship in London in a single turn. Well, that convince me to increase costs of all naval units. Maybe double it. Battleship needs 7,5k and Metropolis produces 11k. So maybe 15k for battleship should be better.



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Post #: 85
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/6/2016 4:56:21 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		The trouble with the big number of regimes is that they use lots of memory, so the game crashes in the long run. That´s why ernie removed them in GD1938. I think it´s possible to update the GD1900 if there is enough interest in the community, but I´m short on time and still working in Bombur 1930 mod. Maybe if we formed a team to improve this scenario....

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 86
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/6/2016 5:50:58 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Bombur, I don't know if there is enough interest in the community. I am interested, and I do some additional tests nowadays. I've changed many things. I can send you files or upload it somewhere in time, if I have some good news.

Just today I found that AI rule 232 was set to 20% for Cargoship as raiders. So no strange that AI used cargoships in raiding ;) It could not produce raiders in every port (higher cost) so it choose to produce cheaper "raiders" as small cargoships.

Other changes include:

Map
Some cities in Europe or Asia were renamed properly (or less anachronistic). No more Volgograd, Oslo, Tallinn etc.
Some forests or hills added to map. Nothing really dramatic. Some places just look more like in reality.
Japan rechecked again and some cities removed to proper places ;)
Polish people live in Polish cities (in 3 regimes) as it was in 1900. There are more Polish towns/villages on map - just for the sake I like it this way. I added Bialystok (yes, no Bialystock) to map.
Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary got new town in Poland (so there's something to fight for in that area, as it was in reality). There is Kiel-Hamburg canal now.
I joined South and Central American people into single Latin Americans. So now in that region are Mexicans, Argentinians, Brasilians and Latin Americans. I can't see any reason for separate Central and South American people groups.
In opposite there are now 4 people groups in Austria-Hungary (AUS, HUN, POL, UNI) as this was real problem and distinctive mark of that empire.

There is no Gibraltar strait on map - just the port acting like Suez or Constantinople. Who controls it controls the sea. Maybe not super realistic, but perhapes better than strait available for every one?
Brisbane added to its place. Former Brisbane renamed to Townsville and set as village.
Little changes on USA-Canada frontier to allow British player using its road from Vancouver to Winnipeg.
Added Charleston as village in USA.
Moved Rabaul to its place, added Kavieng port near Rabaul.
Added Auckland as village in New Zeland.
Set nationalities of resources sites to local people (AFR, ARA). Added coal site in Germany (Silesia) as many German owned sites in Africa had German people (100% more output). Silesia has Polish people by the way ;)

There was oil and ore. I renamed ore into resources. Now all units need resources to being produced (even infantry and staff). Most units need more rosurces than ever. New formula is 6 res points for every level of unit produced (Fighter I needs 6 res, Fighter V needs 30 points). Formerly there were abundance of resources rendering the resource situation meaningless. Now they should be more important. This needs testing though.


Actually testing value for ZOC points. I hope AI creates so many small units because they were set very low (vanilla) values in this rulevars:
Minimum ZOC pts to capture enemy hex 4->8
Minimum ZOC pts to capture neutral hex 1->4
Minimum Power Pts needed to capture enemy hex 0 -> 4
AP Penalty for entering enemy ZOC 0 -> 2

I also set less exp for killing
Score kill gives XP pts = 30 -> 20
Score retreat gives XP pts = 10 -> 10
Score pinned gives XP pts = 0 -> 5

I will have some questions to you about STFs as I am sure I don't understand every relationships/connections between units.

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 87
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/6/2016 10:01:16 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Bombur,
here is my resource system for all units in scenario.
As you know your system treated "res" as "ore" and regimes needed to pay only for equipment in "ore".
Now every unit has its price in term of "resources needed for equipping".
Because there are on map not only Coal Mines (ore) but also Diamond Mines or other mineral ones, it should be OK :)

I think on map resources should be limiting factor in production, so I designed this system. Of course I could decrease cities output, but I think it's not the case of having population and factories but also resources availability.

I am not sure if it will be better to stay with simple rules (6 pts every level) or add some special rules for some kinds of units. What is your oppinion?

New Resource cost model.
- Infantry (Rifle, Special Forces, etc) - 1 res
- Infantry Support Weapons (Machinegun, Mortar, etc) - 3 res
- Most other equipment - 6 res for every level of equipment. Looks like 72 res (lev12) is max.
Level1 - 6 res
Level2 - 12 res
Level3 - 18 res
Level4 - 24 res
Level5 - 30 res
Level6 - 36 res
Level7 - 42 res
Level8 - 48 res
Level9 - 54 res
Level10 - 60 res
Level11 - 66 res
Level12 - 72 res
- Some special case equipment have different paths.
- Staff units - 20 res always (every level).
- Coastal Guns: 60,120,180 res. They are special case as they allow shooting at expensive ships.
- Light Tanks: 10 res start and plus 10 every level (10,20,30,40,50)
- Medium Tanks: 20 res start and ??? (20,30,60,70,80)
- Heavy Tanks: 60 res start and ??? (60,80,120,85)
- Main Battle Tanks: 90 res level1 and 75 res level2
- Tank Destroyers: 10 res start and ??? (10,20,60,60)
- Assault Guns: 20 res level1, 40 res level2 and 90 res level3
- SP Arty: 40 res level1 and 60 res level2
- APC: 20 res level1, 30 res level2
-Heavy Bombers: 10,20,30,40,150,180



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Post #: 88
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/6/2016 10:22:18 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Hanti, seems like you are doing some fine work! I would love for this mod to come alive again.

Bombur is right about the game crashing in the long run, due to memory problems. I could if there is enough interest perhaps make faux regimes for the game, or the other option bombur came up with the 14 regimes could be done...

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 89
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 6/7/2016 9:34:23 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

(...) make faux regimes for the game, or the other option bombur came up with the 14 regimes could be done...


Removing regimes, going back to 14 players is very sad
There are more interesting choices for playing than those 14. And mere existence of some regimes gives unique flavour to that mod.
Below I present starting situation of regimes in mod. It's 99% accurate, I made only little changes after writing this. "Sup" is how many supplies they can produce if all cities produce only supplies.

1. Russia sup 25.000 oil 1250 res 4875 vp 67 pp 20
2. USA sup 99.000 oil 2500 res 9500 vp 104 pp 20
3. Great Britain sup 63.750 oil 1500 res 9375 vp 153 pp 20
4. Japan sup 11.500 oil 0 res 500 vp 30 pp 20
5. China sup 23.000 oil 750 res 3000 vp 44 pp 20
6. Germany sup 31.500 oil 0 res 1500 vp 58 pp 20
7. France sup 24.750 oil 250 res 1375 vp 57 pp 20
8. Brazil sup 6.000 oil 0 res 2500 vp 16 pp 20
9. Ottoman Empire sup 11.750 oil 1750 res 500 vp 26 pp 20
10. Italy sup 15.750 oil 0 res 250 vp 28 pp 20
11. Austria Hungary sup 15.500 oil 0 res 500 vp 24 pp 20
12. Argentina sup 5.000 oil 750 res 500 vp 13 pp 20
13. Mexico sup 6.000 oil 750 res 1000 vp 12 pp 20
14. Benelux sup 15.500 oil 375 res 1000 vp 29 pp 20
15. Uruguay sup 1.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 2 pp 100
16. Paraguay sup 500 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
17. Chile sup 3.000 oil 0 res 1750 vp 6 pp 100
18. Bolivia sup 1.000 oil 0 res 500 vp 2 pp 100
19. Peru sup 1.500 oil 0 res 500 vp 3 pp 100
20. Ecuador sup 500 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
21. Venezuela sup 1.000 oil 1250 res 250 vp 2 pp 100
22. Colombia sup 2000 oil 250 res 250 vp 4 pp 100
23. Costa Rica sup 1.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
24. Guatemala sup 1.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
25. Dominican Republic 500 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
26. Portugal sup 5.000 oil 0 res 250 vp 10 pp 100
27. Spain sup 10.000 oil 0 res 750 vp 22 pp 100
28. Switzerland sup 6.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 8 pp 100
29. Denmark sup 3.500 oil 0 res 0 vp 5 pp 100
30. Sweden sup 7.500 oil 0 res 500 vp 16 pp 100
31. Serbia sup 2.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 4 pp 100
32. Bulgaria sup 3.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 6 pp 100
33. Romania sup 5.500 oil 250 res 250 vp 8 pp 100
34. Greece sup 3.000 oil 0 res 250 vp 6 pp 100
35. Arabia sup 500 oil 1250 res 0 vp 1 pp 100
36. Abyssinia sup 2.000 oil 0 res 250 vp 1 pp 100
37. Persia sup 3.000 oil 750 res 0 vp 10 pp 100
38. Afghanistan sup 1.000 oil 0 res 750 vp 2 pp 100
39. Siam sup 2.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 2 pp 100
40. Korea sup. 3.000 oil 0 res 250 vp 3 pp 100
41. Mongolia sup 1.000 oil 0 res 0 vp 1 pp 100

So I would suggest of removing only those weakest (without any chances of surviving):
1. Uruguay
2. Paraguay
3. Bolivia
4. Peru
5. Ecuador
6. Costa Rica
7. Guatemala
8. Dominican Republic
9. Arabia
10. Afghanistan
11. Mongolia

There would be still 30 regimes plus maybe some faux regimes as you said.
I hope it would be playable by then (25% reduction in regimes after all).

In green I marked especially interesting choices besides first 14 regimes.

Here is screen of AI troops in my current test (build test-1900-108h6.at2). I play Germany. The rest is AI.
Turns have taken 18-20 minutes till the end of 1902. Now it takes more than 25 minutes (turn 18, June 1904).
AI builds strong units and not so many (AFAICS).
Many units have 100+ rifle squads in Europe.
Of course in Africa things are different. UK attacks me in Namibia with 96th Division from Johannesburg consisting of 11xRifle (DOM) and 4x Rifle (AFR). Dominium are former Commonwealthers (just too long name to fit in screen).

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/khanti1/AI-troops-1904a_zpsclzs76gb.jpg?t=1465201086

Is there working short on forum for
[spoiler]
?
[/spoiler]

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 90
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