Underway Replenishment Test

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> Underway Replenishment Test

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Underway Replenishment Test - 6/12/2016 12:16:43 AM

Bullwinkle58

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There is an active thread in the general forum with the same title as this thread, "Underway Replenishment Test." It concerns 1945 Allied underway replenishment of ammunition from AEs. In it I posted the results of several tests. Alfred weighed in with his input, as well as links to many threads by you, Don Bowen, and JWE.

In a nutshell, the replenishment code seems to work--to a point. When the taking ship is only moderately low, ammunition moves across from the AE. But when the taking ship, in this case a BB, is low in every slot, the code seems to stop at the Slot #1 check if Slot #1 demands more Ops points than are available in the AE, and not proceed to test the other slots against the AE's Ops point and/or on-board supply level.

Alfred posted links to Don Bowen posts that showed the design intent was to have two, separate checks of the AE's capability. A supply load check sufficient to meet the reload minimums of the specific ammunition (16in, 5in, 40MM, etc.), and an AE Ops point check to see if sufficient Ops points remained to move that type of ammo.

In the tests there was an entangled issue of the BB also taking fuel from the AE, using 250 Ops points at the outset to go to 100% fuel as part of the Replenish command button. But a second test, also in the thread, where an AO was added to the AE in the same TF, did not change the outcome. When the BB was flat on ammunition stores, the AE was still unable to replenish any and all types.

If you have a chance could you look at this code?

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 12:09:47 AM

michaelm75au

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Do you have a save I can run thru the debugger to see how it does it?

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 2:29:09 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Do you have a save I can run thru the debugger to see how it does it?

I've never done this, so here goes.

It's an older beta; don't think that matters here. It's my scratch game I use for experiments.

I zipped the save using the Win 7 right-click zip function.

It's a H-to-H game. Air and ground forces of both sides are stood down. At Guam, New Jersey is one hex west with ammo loads offloaded in the editor except one 20MM slot which is full. The AE is in the same hex with 5400 supply on-board. The game has been run ahead one turn to make ops points full for both. I saved at the start of the Allied orders phase.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 4:13:15 AM

rustysi

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Don't know if this will help, but here's something I came across while looking for something else. From Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta - 1123x10 updated 23 August 2014, which I believe is the latest 'Official Patch' (not sure). At any rate in the readme this is listed....

"Partial weapon load not kicking in if ops needed exceeded ship's ops level and ammo load exceeded 1000."

This seems to me to be talking about reloading in port, but could the same effect be felt when attempting an 'unrep'?

If I'm way off base of course just ignore. Just trying to help where and if I can.

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 5:50:10 AM

Lokasenna

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Sounds like that's it, I'd guess.

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 5:54:05 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Sounds like that's it, I'd guess.

Thinking I could be the biggest idiot in the history of forum "tests", I delayed going to bed to upgrade the testbed game to the current beta. I loaded the file I sent to Michael and attempted to replenish the New Jersey.

The results were the same. No ammo moved across to the New Jersey in any slot. The BB did refuel from the AE and 250 ops points were expended.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/18/2016 5:56:25 AM >

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 6:14:39 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Sounds like that's it, I'd guess.

Thinking I could be the biggest idiot in the history of forum "tests", I delayed going to bed to upgrade the testbed game to the current beta. I loaded the file I sent to Michael and attempted to replenish the New Jersey.

The results were the same. No ammo moved across to the New Jersey in any slot. The BB did refuel from the AE and 250 ops points were expended.

Well, I'm not Michael, but I'd still be surprised if the at-sea code were in the same place as the in-port code for replenishment. I guess when he checks back we could know.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 6/18/2016 6:17:11 AM >

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 4:25:53 PM

michaelm75au

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Looking at code, I believe that the 'at sea' is working this way:
1.Find rearm cost to fill all weapons of the ship.
2.Find AE that has operation points that can handle the full rearm cost.

Now if the full cost is >999, then no AE will have enough points to satisfy this.

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 4:30:15 PM

michaelm75au

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The actual rearming of the combat ship by an ammo ship will keep trying to reload weapons until it runs out of OPs. It seems that issue is around it deciding to try rearming.

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 6:50:02 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The actual rearming of the combat ship by an ammo ship will keep trying to reload weapons until it runs out of OPs. It seems that issue is around it deciding to try rearming.

Might be a question for Don Bowen if you're still in contact with him. Was the design intent to do a slot-by-slot check, starting at #1 (always main battery weapon), and fill the first slot possible with the ops points/supply on AE combo? And then continue down the slots until either ops or supply is insufficient? It looks like from your quoted content this was the case.

A lot of he discussion in the thread focuses on the 16in slots, but for me when I've played 1945 AE replenish it's getting a fill on the AA ammo that's critical to deal with kamis.

Regardless of design intent it sounds as if in some cases the AE mechanism won't work now. Thanks for looking.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/18/2016 6:53:15 PM >

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 7:54:36 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The actual rearming of the combat ship by an ammo ship will keep trying to reload weapons until it runs out of OPs. It seems that issue is around it deciding to try rearming.

Might be a question for Don Bowen if you're still in contact with him. Was the design intent to do a slot-by-slot check, starting at #1 (always main battery weapon), and fill the first slot possible with the ops points/supply on AE combo? And then continue down the slots until either ops or supply is insufficient? It looks like from your quoted content this was the case.

A lot of he discussion in the thread focuses on the 16in slots, but for me when I've played 1945 AE replenish it's getting a fill on the AA ammo that's critical to deal with kamis.

Regardless of design intent it sounds as if in some cases the AE mechanism won't work now. Thanks for looking.

It doesn't really sound like a design intent thing to me, just a slight weakness in the implementation where such cases were not thought of/tested for.

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RE: Underway Replenishment Test - 6/18/2016 8:40:46 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The actual rearming of the combat ship by an ammo ship will keep trying to reload weapons until it runs out of OPs. It seems that issue is around it deciding to try rearming.

Might be a question for Don Bowen if you're still in contact with him. Was the design intent to do a slot-by-slot check, starting at #1 (always main battery weapon), and fill the first slot possible with the ops points/supply on AE combo? And then continue down the slots until either ops or supply is insufficient? It looks like from your quoted content this was the case.

A lot of he discussion in the thread focuses on the 16in slots, but for me when I've played 1945 AE replenish it's getting a fill on the AA ammo that's critical to deal with kamis.

Regardless of design intent it sounds as if in some cases the AE mechanism won't work now. Thanks for looking.

It doesn't really sound like a design intent thing to me, just a slight weakness in the implementation where such cases were not thought of/tested for.