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How to effectively use routine convoy?

 
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How to effectively use routine convoy? - 4/12/2003 2:38:59 AM   
frizt

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		I have some difficulties with routine convoy. Usually I will organize several convoys with capacity of 20k-30k, and put them in Brisban or Numea. Those TFs are set to routine convoy. But most times they just sit in port and watch my outposts starve! or send a EMPTY convoy to supply my outpost. It looks like to me that those convoys are only interested in big ports like PM or Cocktown, and ignore completely the smaller bases. Anyone has a clue how to use the routine convoy effectively?
Post #: 1
- 4/12/2003 3:17:29 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Not sure what you are doing wrong. When you form the convoy, set the convoy on computer, set the destination and the convoy automatically starts loading: you set it and forget it although occasionally they may head for some wierd location so you do have to keep an eye on them. I have had no trouble setting routine convoys.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 2
- 4/12/2003 4:24:21 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		I would not trust the computer to routine convoy at all. Setting
comp vs. comp and letting the game run all night, I have woken in
the morning to see every base out of supply and every task
force out of fuel. And I mean every. Supplies are a weapon of
critical importance and should be invigilated.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 3
- 4/12/2003 6:58:27 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nasrullah
[B]I would not trust the computer to routine convoy at all. Setting
comp vs. comp and letting the game run all night, I have woken in
the morning to see every base out of supply and every task
force out of fuel. And I mean every. Supplies are a weapon of
critical importance and should be invigilated. [/B][/QUOTE] Invigilated? That is a new one to me. Please define.:)

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Post #: 4
- 4/12/2003 7:02:50 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		invigilate = to keep vigil over. Keep an eye on the #@$%ers.

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Post #: 5
- 4/12/2003 7:16:48 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		I knew you were showing off.

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Post #: 6
- 4/12/2003 7:22:56 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		You could have looked it up. Or are you trying to impersonate an Australian?

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Post #: 7
- 4/12/2003 7:24:05 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		Kidding! Please guys! Don't!

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Post #: 8
- 4/12/2003 7:51:50 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Give it to him Aussies!

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Post #: 9
- 4/12/2003 8:01:04 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		No, really, some of my best friends are antipodean troglodytes.
But to get back on topic, have you noticed that if on turn 1 as
Allies, if you set a convoy on computer control from Brisbane,
it goes directly to Koumac? And then, piling on the folly, it will
take supplies from the now over-stocked Koumac to Townsville?

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 10
- 4/12/2003 8:17:35 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		No I haven't noticed. I don't as a rule form routine convoys from Brisbane because they are subject to air attack. I set all convoys to run along the coral reef. I use routine convoys as Japanese and as Allies, Noumea to Luganville or Efate. I have setr routine convoys from Brisbane to Roussel Island or Kiriwina with no problem but maybe being spotted causes the TF to change direction?

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 11
- 4/12/2003 8:35:54 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		I have limited experience in this matter (not one game finished, c'mon, guys, get out of bed and send 'em in), but what little I have steered me away from routime convoys: they never did what I expected or perhaps unrealistically hoped. So I just stopped trying. I will do some research and get back to you. Even so, I stand by my earlier comment that supplies are too crucial to the game to leave to mindless management.

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Post #: 12
- 4/12/2003 9:39:28 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		i certainly don't dispute that, but it is nice to dispense with some mundane activities so as to be able to attend to more important duties. routine convoys are more apopro to rear area activity.
But I have been known to put barges on routine convoy to forward bases with some success.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 13
- 4/12/2003 9:51:26 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		We should get up a game sometime. I didn't know there was
such a thing as a "rear area".

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Post #: 14
- 4/12/2003 10:17:10 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nasrullah
[B]We should get up a game sometime. I didn't know there was
such a thing as a "rear area". [/B][/QUOTE] Well Nasrullah I'm "game" as in ready to play, or perhaps as victim. the only rear area in UV is between Truk and Rabaul, but Rabaul can be reached from PM. With barges though you can convoy anywhere because their loss is zero points. You just have to send a zillion of them. Noumea is safe until Lunga is taken but Lunga is usually taken early so only Brisbane to Noumea is safe. Who sends convoys from Noumea to brisbane?

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Post #: 15
- 4/12/2003 10:39:12 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drex
[B]...Who sends convoys from Noumea to brisbane? [/B][/QUOTE]When I'm fleeing from the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man...

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 16
- 4/12/2003 10:42:30 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Seriously,

I'm in Apr '43 as IJN in PBeM and the only way I'm keeping Lunga/Tulagi supplied is via barges from Shortland. The USN keeps pounding them, but has to expend a bit of effort to do so. 1000 lb GP Bombs are unhealthy for a little IJN AG (barge)...

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 17
- 4/12/2003 11:05:58 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		So let him lose morale and fatigue hitting zero point barges? You can build them faster than he can sink them.

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Post #: 18
- 4/13/2003 6:00:38 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drex
[B]So let him lose morale and fatigue hitting zero point barges? You can build them faster than he can sink them. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wish I could. My opponent manages to kill my barges faster than I can build them. He has lots of bombers on naval search and each turn I see several messages that barges are reported hit - which they usually are and of course they usually don't survive those 500-pounders. In addition he has many F/Bs on naval attack strafing the hell out of my barges. I've lost 14 of them in just two days!

Not only the computer-controlled routine (AP/AK) convoys do not work properly, the 'routine barge convoy' via barge hub thing doesn't work either (in my case) - the barges are just sitting in port while bases nearby are almost out of supply. So I'm running all convoys whether APs or barges on human control.

_____________________________

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Post #: 19
- 4/13/2003 10:09:00 PM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		There is recent thread about problems with routine convoys but I haven't had problems myself. Sometimes I have to chnage the home base to the destination just to make sure it isn't scared away by carriers or air attack. As to losing barges it is a problem. I have broken up my barge TFs into smaller TFs and sent them all out at the same time. this seems to help some get through.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 20
- 4/14/2003 4:00:06 PM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline 		I always used to have trouble with these but I am not sure if some of the later patches have helped? Maybe I should retry them?

The only way I have made them work is to make sure that they have a destination and there is only one routine convoy for each destination.

If I break the first of these rules the convoys sail to the most exposed base if they sail at all :(

If I break the second the convoys begin to behave as fully computer controlled routine convoys, i.e. they stop sailing where I want them to and immeadiately set sail for my most exposed outpost.... They only continue the shuttle runs to where I want them to go if it's just one for each forward base.

They are OK for automating the Truk to Rabaul & Truk to Shortlands fuel runs. But that is about it IME.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 21
- 4/14/2003 8:40:16 PM   
frizt

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		Well folks. I appriciated for the feedbacks! It looks like to me that I am not the only one in problem with routine convoy. Here is something I have noticed lately. If you click on the "Human Control" tag, you actually has a third option. First, change the convoy mode to Computer Controlled and then set a destination for the convoy. And the "Computer Controlled" mode will be switched to your destination. In this mode, the convoy will always supply the base you have choosen, and work itself till every ship has high System Damage. Well, this is the only way I know to use routine convoy reliabely. If you keep them just on computer controlled mode, they will most times only make you pull out your hair and then bange your head against the closests wall......
Here is my suggestion, why does Matrixgames not improve the AI to do a better job? Auto-supply bases whichever need supply. If ship damage is above 15, then let the entire convoy sit in port for repair and then send them out again on duty. It is not hard to program at all. At the same time the player should keep couple of convoy on Human control just for in case....would'nt it work much better?

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 22
- 4/14/2003 10:00:52 PM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		I have to disagree with the earlier remark about building barges faster than the allies can destroy them. I'm doing #17 and we've reached the middle of June 42. I divided my barges into two TFs of 12 to 15 barges each. One in the Solomons and one on the north coast of N.G. The TF in the Solomons has taken some losses but is doing okay. However, the TF in NG has been destroyed by submarines and by air attack out of PM. Right now I have one new barge in the pool. Perhaps the problem is I was too aggressive in NG and should have waited until PM was taken before expanding along the north coast. That at least would have lessoned the effect of air attacks. Probably wouldn't have much effect on the subs though, and I would say the majority of my losses are from subs. Just not enough DDs to cover everywhere. I'm also wondering does barge production increase as the game progresses?

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

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Post #: 23
- 4/14/2003 11:58:26 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Just an FYI:

There is a finite limit of barges, they are not unlimited according to the database.

Another side note: Continuous Supply vs Routine Convoy are different in nature, seems there are a lot of mixing up of these two entirely different missions in this thread.

CS is very useful, RC is completely useless against even the AI due to the silly rules it operates under.

One thing to watch with lots of CS running, keep your eye on them, they tend to get confused now and then and run backwards or empty, requiring manual intervention to correct.

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 24
- 4/15/2003 11:28:44 AM   
Nasrullah

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Annapolis, Md, USA
Status: offline 		The Routine Convoys behave far more reliably than the CS convoys. Trouble with the Routines is that they will sit around
home port until triggered by a needy base. The Continuous
Supply, however, if not based at Noumea, Truk, or Brisbane,
can behave very erratically. See attached.
The manual is wrong in at least one respect: more than one
Routine Convoy may be in transit concurrently to the same base.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 25
- 4/15/2003 1:39:45 PM   
Christof

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Hamburg, Germany
Status: offline 		Hi all,

RC doesn't work for me either. Silly, because it should not be too difficult to program a routine doing this. As far as I remember RC worked quite fine in "Pacific War".

I hope this is addressed until WITP comes around, otherwise we'll just get flooded by stupid handling of logistics...

Cheers,
Christof

(in reply to frizt)
Post #: 26
- 4/15/2003 2:20:05 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		All this illustrates that it is too important to let the computer run your logisitics.

As the saying goes "Amatuers study tactics, professionals study logistics"

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"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

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Post #: 27
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