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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/19/2016 8:04:09 PM   
Canoerebel


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Yeah, I've been really fortunate with good transports - only two of the really good ones lost in five months of almost nonstop amphibious activity: Aleutians, Marshalls, Kwaj, Wake.

But I have lost too many of some other classes, including AO, TK, CA and CL.

To date I've only lost one fast BB. That was Indiana, which fought gamely at Sabang against overwhelming odds and took Fuso down with her.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/19/2016 8:10:17 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/19/2016 8:07:06 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

There are classes of ships that I've lost too many of. And I don't want to lose any more APAs or LSI(L)s, but here's a list of all those sunk to date:





Very acceptable losses at this stage.

_____________________________

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/19/2016 8:07:14 PM   
Canoerebel


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Here's the list of TFs in the lead group. The "thundering herd" as it moves west. Lots of other TFs are working to catch up. The herd will stop somewhere near Wake so that the armada can tighten up and some ships replenish ASW or fuel.




Attachment (1)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/19/2016 8:21:26 PM   
witpqs


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I keep trying to scroll the screen...

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/19/2016 8:37:10 PM   
Canoerebel


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I bet all of us try to click the "Exit" button when we view screenshots like these.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 5:23:05 AM   
Canoerebel


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Internet here in Sticks, Georgia, was down this afternoon and evening. I had finished the turn but couldn't send it to John. Then I did something unexpected. As the sun was setting, I drove north to Chickamauga Creek Trail. Then, as the full moon rose, me and my dog did a six mile hike. The fireflies, whippoorwills, and barred owls made the outing special. When I got home, the internet was back on here in Sticks, Georgia, so the turn is off to John.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:02:22 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Edge of seat excitement here! Godspeed Allied forces!

Cheers,
CC

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Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 3:06:39 PM   
T Rav

 

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CR, one of my best "Father's" thing was to take my daughter on a drive through the South a couple years ago. We started it with a walk through the Chickamauga Battlefield. We had an ancestor who was there.

You live in a beautiful part of the country.

T Rav

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 3:14:50 PM   
Canoerebel


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TRav, there will be an article in our Autumn issue called "Like Falling Yellow Leaves." It's written by Dr. Betsy Hoole McArthur, whose great-grandfather was a captain in the 3rd South Carolina Regiment, Kershaw's Brigade. He was killed in action at Chickamauga, near the Horseshoe Ridge. The family had his sword and rifle until about 13 years ago, when they donated it to the battlefield museum.

We live in a remarkably diverse and beautiful country. I love the southern mountains, with our lush, hot and humid summers and our stark and cool (cold by my standards) winters. The rest of the country is equally beautiful in many different ways, from the majesty of the Rockies to the barreness of Utah's rock country to places like Death Valley and Maine's Acadia National Park. And the people are euqally nice, with a few rare exceptions. In traveling and camping all over the country and meeting nice people everywhere, I've learned that I could've been equally happy had life led me to reside in places like Bath, New Hampshire, or Vernal, Utah.

I'm sure this holds true for the rest of the world too: Oz, New Zeland, Russia, Scandinavia, and on and on. I don't expect I'll ever travel outside the US, barring Canada, but I wish I could.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/20/2016 3:17:36 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 3:34:21 PM   
Encircled


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Well, having been to the US, New Zealand and India on my travels, I can heartily agree with you.

Travelling is on hold till the kids are older, but the world is there to be seen

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 4:19:02 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

I keep trying to scroll the screen...


quote:

I bet all of us try to click the "Exit" button when we view screenshots like these.


More than that ... I constantly get caught trying to "escape" to the previous screen, and clicking on the TFs or bases in the screenshots for more detailed info which somehow doesn't happen within the forum ...

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 5:02:48 PM   
Canoerebel


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10/31/43

Big Tent: The herd continues to move west without incident, ending the day 47 hexes into the journey with about 35 remaining to the first beach. No altercations with subs today. Most of them seem concentrated to the E and NE, while the herd is approaching Wake from the SE. But John's getting good nav search and detection, so he'll work his vectors.

I'm modifying the plan just a bit. I had originally planned to use Wake as the staging point, letting trailing TFs catch up while ships fueled and replenished. But instead that's going to happen at sea, somewhere W or SW of Wake in hopes of keeping John guessing, mainly as to where he'll deploy his subs.

Recon continues of Marcus, the Marianas, Truk and many of the Marshalls. No distubring SigInt today.

Lion Tamer: A small Australian infantry unit landed today at the island west of Koumac. That undefended base should fall tomorrow. Another landing take place at undefended Tamma, NE of Noumea, in a few days. With activity way down there in SoPac, I'm hoping John is concentrating very hard on securing the Solomons, New Georgia, Lae, etc.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 5:53:14 PM   
Jellicoe


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I don't think that many of us outside the U.S. quite appreciate the historical nearness of the civil war in your collective memory but framing it as someone's great grandfather just brings home how close that is. Quite close enough to be able to hear first hand accounts of from children or grandchildren which therefore makes them quite real people. That makes civil war history still very personal to many families I should think, in the same way that the Somme and Paschendale are to families in the UK. I was showing my daughter a copy of the excellent Ypres Then and Now that I have so that she could understand what happened to her great granny's uncle when he was killed there in 17. Given that she had met her great grandmother enough to have some very clear memories of her the connection however stretched is still personal just as with your writer.

As for Big Tent fingers crossed





< Message edited by Jellicoe -- 6/20/2016 5:57:58 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 6:05:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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Jellicoe, you're exactly right. Civil War history is foremost in the minds of many southerners.

A few months ago, an elderly, kindly gentleman passed away in our community. Both of his grandfathers were Confederate soldiers. One of his great-grandfathers was killed in action at South Mountain in 1862. I visited with that man in his house about 20 years ago. He brought out the uniform worn by one of his grandfathers along with this haversack. He had a photo of one of his grandfathers taken in the 1870s. After the war, he had gone west to prospect for gold. In the photos, he is still a young man, holding a pistol upright across his chest. It's a striking image.

In the mid 1990s, I met with a lawyer named Warren Akin in Cartersville, Georgia. Believe it or not, his grandfather (by the same name) had been born in 1811! That grandfather had served in the Confederate House of Representatives and had also been a lawyer in the first reported case by the Georgia Supreme Court (sometime in the 1840s). This grandfather had played a key role in trying to get a pardon for a Confederate officer convicted by court martial of "shameful" conduct at the Battle of Chancellorsville. That officer is my avatar.

In the 1980s, while I was a student at the University of Georgia, we happened to have a young man in our dorm who was from New Hampshire. Late one night, we were all sitting in the hallway shooting the breeze about this and that. Suddenly, that Hampshirite piped up and exclaimed, "What is it with you guys and the Civil War?" Apparently, our conversations were frequently sprinkled with metnions of this battle or that event.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 6:30:26 PM   
dave sindel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Jellicoe, you're exactly right. Civil War history is foremost in the minds of many southerners.

A few months ago, an elderly, kindly gentleman passed away in our community. Both of his grandfathers were Confederate soldiers. One of his great-grandfathers was killed in action at South Mountain in 1862. I visited with that man in his house about 20 years ago. He brought out the uniform worn by one of his grandfathers along with this haversack. He had a photo of one of his grandfathers taken in the 1870s. After the war, he had gone west to prospect for gold. In the photos, he is still a young man, holding a pistol upright across his chest. It's a striking image.

In the mid 1990s, I met with a lawyer named Warren Akin in Cartersville, Georgia. Believe it or not, his grandfather (by the same name) had been born in 1811! That grandfather had served in the Confederate House of Representatives and had also been a lawyer in the first reported case by the Georgia Supreme Court (sometime in the 1840s). This grandfather had played a key role in trying to get a pardon for a Confederate officer convicted by court martial of "shameful" conduct at the Battle of Chancellorsville. That officer is my avatar.

In the 1980s, while I was a student at the University of Georgia, we happened to have a young man in our dorm who was from New Hampshire. Late one night, we were all sitting in the hallway shooting the breeze about this and that. Suddenly, that Hampshirite piped up and exclaimed, "What is it with you guys and the Civil War?" Apparently, our conversations were frequently sprinkled with metnions of this battle or that event.




I was raised in Columbus, OH and in my mid 20's moved to Chicago for a while. In April 1982 I accepted a job in Savannah, GA and moved there in early May. I can remember asking my coworkers about Memorial Day plans, and being told in no uncertain terms "that's a Yankee holiday". Which is true in a sense as it was started by Union Army survivors to honor the Civil War dead. And sure enough, we worked on Memorial Day...but as an offset we had Robert E Lee's birthday off !

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 6:53:05 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jellicoe

I don't think that many of us outside the U.S. quite appreciate the historical nearness of the civil war in your collective memory but framing it as someone's great grandfather just brings home how close that is. Quite close enough to be able to hear first hand accounts of from children or grandchildren which therefore makes them quite real people. That makes civil war history still very personal to many families I should think, in the same way that the Somme and Paschendale are to families in the UK. I was showing my daughter a copy of the excellent Ypres Then and Now that I have so that she could understand what happened to her great granny's uncle when he was killed there in 17. Given that she had met her great grandmother enough to have some very clear memories of her the connection however stretched is still personal just as with your writer.

As for Big Tent fingers crossed



It's weird to think about, but the oldest living person today was born closer to the Civil War than modern times. Thinking about time can be mind boggling, confusing, extremely clear, and humbling all at once. That's just one example.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 6:59:14 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

I was raised in Columbus, OH and in my mid 20's moved to Chicago for a while. In April 1982 I accepted a job in Savannah, GA and moved there in early May. I can remember asking my coworkers about Memorial Day plans, and being told in no uncertain terms "that's a Yankee holiday". Which is true in a sense as it was started by Union Army survivors to honor the Civil War dead. And sure enough, we worked on Memorial Day...but as an offset we had Robert E Lee's birthday off !


Interesting. I asked my old roommate, who is from Georgia, about it. He was born in 1983, but says he doesn't remember anything like that. He's from the coast, though.

Also, Lee's birthday was January 19. I wonder if that wasn't just an observance of MLK Day? Although that wasn't observed until 1986, signed into law in 1983.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:09:02 PM   
Canoerebel


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The South celebrated Confederate Memorial Day (in late April) as an official holiday until recently. I think, in Georgia, that it was the state holiday until perhaps the past 20 years. Now everybody has switched to official Memorial Day. Only a few groups - SCV, UDC - pay respects on Confederate Memorial Day. I'm asked to speak to these groups on that day fairly regularly, but I keep making the members of the SCV mad because my views aren't in lockstep with theirs. But I'm fine with the UDC.

Lee & Jackson's birthday is still a holiday in a couple of states, or only recently changed. But you're right, a number of states changed from that observation to MLK Day.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:11:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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The best perspective I have on time is this, from just a few years ago. My dad, who was a WWII veteran, was born in 1923. When I visited him in 2013, when he was about to turn 90, I realized that less than double his lifetime would include the Civil War years and even the Cherokee Trail of Tears and less than triple his lifetime was the American Revolution. That's crazy!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:13:33 PM   
Canoerebel


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Email message from John with latest turn: "I’m as ready as I am going to be with whichever choice you make here."

That's the truth - I'm sure he has attended to everything he could and now there's nothing more to be done with the Allied armada bearing down.

But the real question is this: Did he sufficiently attend to the places he needed to attend to? That's an entirely different thing.

(His message is also his way of saying, "I'm ready for you.")

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/20/2016 7:16:18 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:24:57 PM   
Canoerebel


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11/1/43

Big Tent: The herd makes five more hexes and is now a bit SW of Wake Island. Enemy subs picked off a TK, an xAK carrying a bit of equipment, and an xAK carrying fuel. I'm very worried about his subs - it's my biggest concern - but the occasional merchant ship is not why I'm worried.

Other than those encounters, nothing amiss happens today. The herd is 53 hexes into its journey with just 30 remaing to target one. The temptation is to sprint now given the threat posed by enemy subs. But I think the better course is to have a rendezvous point to allow as many trailing TFs as possible to catch up, particular those carrying fuel. A few laggard will probably be left behind, no doubt, but mostly the armada is drawing together in good order. Tomorrow the herd slows to just three hexes west. In that hex, most of the refueling will take place and I'll make final decisions as to which lagging TFs can still make it. Then perhaps one more slow day moving west. Then the armada moves out in force, probably at 5 hexes per day. So I think D-Day takes place in six or seven days.

No signs of KB or enemy combat ships. There are still enemy ships at Eniwetok and vicinity. I'm hoping that John isn't configuring a soak-off operation. I don't think he will, but I'll monitor.

SigInt, recon and other intel is still all good. John may surprise me here, but it's highly unlikely. I haven't gotten one single report of a unit at any of the 20 or so targeted bases. Nor has there been any base building activity whatsoever. The closes thing I've seen is at one base on the periphery, and that hasn't been anything dramatic. It still seems like he's focusing forward. Also, a few days ago SigInt reported 2nd Div. at Paramushiro.

Eldorado is gold now. This special op has been successful. I should be able to reveal it in about four days.

Meanwhile, the Allied PBY bases at Bikini and Rongelap are up and running. John would ordinarily handle these by quick counterinvasion (they're very weakly held), but he doesn't want to risk good ships with Death Star moving in behind these bases.

Lion Tamer: The island base west of Koumac autoflipped today. That unit will reload and move to a dot hex. The amphib force targeting Tamma (NE of Noumea) will arrive in about three days. And a TF aiming for Vanua Lava is loading at Norfolk Island.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:33:19 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:


Eldorado is gold now.


Wasn't he always?

On topic, I am very curious to see just how strong a response the Japanese make. Also I'm worried about the constant losses to subs.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 7:38:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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I think these are the first three losses to subs in this op. They are a major concern, but thus far everything's going well.

If John's going to respond with his navy, he'll have one good window. But he might not realize that's his best window until it's closed. That's my hope. Once the window closes, though, any battle should favor the Allies in terms of comparable OOB.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 8:34:28 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The best perspective I have on time is this, from just a few years ago. My dad, who was a WWII veteran, was born in 1923. When I visited him in 2013, when he was about to turn 90, I realized that less than double his lifetime would include the Civil War years and even the Cherokee Trail of Tears and less than triple his lifetime was the American Revolution. That's crazy!


Your dad, and mine, could have had a conversation with Civil War veterans when they were boys. And ex-slaves.

_____________________________

The Moose

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 8:46:11 PM   
Canoerebel


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Funny we should be discussing this topic right now, because I've written a story along these same lines for the next issue of the magazine:

Vanishing Georgia

The Old Timers

On a sunny spring afternoon in 1981, I stood at my second-story dormitory window and looked down at the green expanse of the Myers Hall quadrangle. Scores of college students filled that park-like space. Some mingled in small groups. Others tossed Frisbees, sunbathed, or played softball. It was a scene of youthful vigor. Everyone seemed to be in the prime of life: healthy, happy, and apparently carefree.

As I took in that view, a campus bus pulled to a stop on the opposite side of the quadrangle. A dozen or more students disembarked and quickly melted into the teeming throng of young men and women. Then a frail, primly-dressed lady who seemed to bear the full weight of years upon her shoulders stepped from the bus to the sidewalk. She straightened her sweater, adjusted her hat, and began walking slowly across the quadrangle.

I watched for ten minutes as she made her way through that sea of students. As far as I could tell, none of them took notice of her. Finally she reached the dorm building, opened the door, and entered.

When she disappeared from view, I felt a momentary pang of regret – a brief melancholy feeling of time passing relentlessly, accompanied by a dawning awareness of my own mortality. It was a feeling as though life was slipping through my fingers, slowly at that moment but destined to accelerate as first years and then decades would pass.

The juxtaposition of age and youth was striking; so striking that I briefly considered walking downstairs. I had a fleeting notion that I ought to find the lady, ask her name and where she was bound, and invite her to share her memories. I wondered what she thought about the sprawling University of Georgia campus, the young people who hadn’t noticed her, and the passage of decades that had created such a chasm between her and them.

But the moment passed. I didn’t walk downstairs. I didn’t find her and ask those questions. And I never saw her again.

That moment has remained with me for 35 years. To this day, I wonder what she might have told me about a much younger Athens and her own youthful years. Did she yearn for earlier days, remembering a time when she was lithe and the world seemed young? Did she wistfully recall an evening walk beside a handsome suitor, strolling hand in hand beneath the glow of a gas lamp illuminating a sidewalk and nearby storefronts? Had she once marveled at streets teeming with wagons loaded high with cotton?

Perhaps as a young lady she had attended the Lucy Cobb Institute, a school for girls that stood on Milledge Avenue until 1931. Perhaps she had known pioneer aviator Ben Epps, who operated a “flying field” a few miles outside town. And perhaps she remembered the so-called Road Lab killings that had taken place on the university campus in 1918.

Had I taken the time to ask, she might have told me of these things. How grateful she might have been for the opportunity.

Sometimes, when I think about her, I wonder if she once stood in the place I would stand. During the prime of her life in the 1920s, had she ever watched an old timer make his shuffling way across an expanse of parkland? Did she ponder who he was, who he might have known, and what he might have seen? Did she look in wonder but shrink from asking?

Maybe she knew a wizened gentleman who in his youth had wrestled with the question of secession from the Union. Maybe she had walked beside a frail woman who remembered dancing gaily at a splendid ball in the company of ante bellum grandees like Thomas R.R. Cobb, Howell Cobb, and Joseph Henry Lumpkin. Maybe she had once, so very long before, made acquaintance with an old timer who could tell of traveling to Athens by stagecoach, before the era of the railroad.

Given the magic of generational knowledge, such things are possible. In such manner, while I viewed the Myers Hall quadrangle that afternoon in 1981, just one or two lifetimes may have separated me from memories of momentous people and events of the first half of the 19th century. The lady might have known someone with memories of the discovery of gold in north Georgia, the removal of the Cherokee from their homeland, or the fearsome scourges of yellow fever that swept our southern seaports.

Sometimes we don’t recognize the power of generational knowledge until it’s too late. Then we lament, “I wish I had asked Mom (or Dad) about their childhood, who they knew, and what they saw. Now it’s too late.”

I didn’t know enough local history to ask well-informed questions of that lady in 1981. But that isn’t what stopped me from finding her to ask. What stopped me was the notion that it wasn’t important; that there would be other opportunities; that there would be no shortage of old timers to talk to when the notion struck.

So I missed that chance. Then days turned into weeks, months into years, and old timers who could have answered those questions passed away, one by one, and their firsthand knowledge vanished from living memory.

Gradually I learned to stop and ask. Sometimes, anyway. As I drove down a rural mountain byway one Labor Day in the 1990s, I saw a withered man in faded denim overalls and soiled button-down shirt puttering across his lawn on a rickety riding lawnmower. To his rear stood his worn, unpainted country-style house, its pine-planking weathered as dark as fine walnut.

I’m not sure what prompted me to stop that day. I think I had been working on a story about the Rosedale Cyclone, which killed thirteen people on March 13, 1913. Perhaps he appeared to be the proper vintage to have memories of that calamity.

I recall discussing the cyclone with him, though I don’t remember exactly what he said. But I’ve never forgotten a story he recounted. He told me that many decades before, he’d had a dream in which lightning struck a tree that stood between two other trees in his pasture. When he awakened, he knew what the dream meant: a man would come between him and his wife. Not long afterwards, he said, his wife left him for another.

Less than three months after my talk with that man, he passed away. I’m glad I stopped to chat with him, but I regret the many other times I have been too busy to do so. How many opportunities have I missed to pass the time with those holding keys that would unlock the past?

Last summer, while slowly jogging along a dirt road on the Berry College campus, I approached a group of ten students coming my way. Each of them seemed to be in the prime of life: healthy, happy, and apparently carefree. It was a scene of youthful vigor.

As I passed by, they were deep in conversation. None of them took notice of me. None of them wondered who I was, where I had come from, or who I had known in my own youthful years. I rounded a curve, entered the shade of deep forest, and left them behind.

Then it dawned on me. I was the old timer.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 8:54:15 PM   
Canoerebel


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Speaking of noticing things, a final glance at the map showed an IJN carrier TF of three CA and one CVL. It's probably some DDs and a few CVEs or the like, either returning from detached duty in the lower Solomons or heading on a raid to New Caledonia (in response to the bait I set before John, as described previously). I probably won't get another sighting, so I may never know what it was doing and which way it was heading.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 9:26:17 PM   
IJV

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
a few CVEs


Do the Japanese actually have any of those left?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 9:27:00 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The best perspective I have on time is this, from just a few years ago. My dad, who was a WWII veteran, was born in 1923. When I visited him in 2013, when he was about to turn 90, I realized that less than double his lifetime would include the Civil War years and even the Cherokee Trail of Tears and less than triple his lifetime was the American Revolution. That's crazy!


Your dad, and mine, could have had a conversation with Civil War veterans when they were boys. And ex-slaves.



Just reread Andrew Chaiken's (SP?) seminal work on the history of the Apollo Space Program, A Man on the Moon, which was the basis for the late 90's HBO miniseries From the Earth to the Moon (highly recommend both for any unfamiliar with them).

He documents an event during the launch of Apollo 17 wherein the oldest living American at the time, a former slave, 130 years of age was given a seat in the VIP gallery for the launch.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 6928
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 9:49:44 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IJV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
a few CVEs


Do the Japanese actually have any of those left?


Good point. If my "reconciliation" of the Japanese naval OOB last week was correct, I don't think he has any CVEs letf. The mouseover showed it as a CVL, so perhaps for once it's accurate. I can see John having a Mini KB down there to ambush Allied combat ships or small carriers.

(in reply to IJV)
Post #: 6929
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/20/2016 11:03:23 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Big Tent screen shot on the first day of November.




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