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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/21/2016 10:57:21 PM   
DRF99


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It certainly is a black art.

In JocMeister's AAR there was a big discussion on combating the IJN's nuclear sub force.

In particular, MrKane wrote:
Personally I am using directed forward night search to anti-subs protection. Sub hunting is different story. Actually the best results I am getting with dive bombers used at mass. Standard is 50% ASW 50% SEARCH for each squadron on each carrier. In case of USN carriers it gives 41 planes looking for subs around for each flattop. Result is usually clean ocean in 1 or 2 turn with 2 - 5 sunk all other heading port to fix damage.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/21/2016 11:41:15 PM   
JohnDillworth


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I go a bit lower but that will work too. You can experiment with this on the West cost. use your ASW place 40% search, 40% ASW, not full range, tight search arc and associated ASW ships. the planes get the detection and the ships "sighed sub sank same"
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton



quote:

Most at start carrier avenger pilots and those arriving on fleet carriers come with fairly good ASW skills as well as all other skills. Really, anything in the 45-60 range is good enough. Nobody really knows the best altitude but I just keep them at 5,000k and they work just fine.


_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/21/2016 11:42:38 PM   
JohnDillworth


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good luck. short range and low alititude
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've got some CVE TBFs flying ASW now. I switched them out before I sent John the turn this a.m. But I forgot to check pilot ASW skill levels. I'll do that next turn and see if I can draw enough highly-skilled pilots to allow three or four of the CVE TBF squadrons to do the job.


quote:

I've got some CVE TBFs flying ASW now. I switched them out before I sent John the turn this a.m. But I forgot to check pilot ASW skill levels. I'll do that next turn and see if I can draw enough highly-skilled pilots to allow three or four of the CVE TBF squadrons to do the job.


_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 1:58:19 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Commander Cody, Death Star was in the same hex (131,100).

Thanks, Loka, for the suggestions. I had already bumped up CAP to 50%. Next turn, I'll remove the 10% rest. Then I'll divide my fighters into two groups: some at a high percentage with range zero (CAP) only [this will include the Corsairs, as NYGiants suggested several days ago) the rest at 0% CAP with range 6 (these to escort bombers).

For what its worth, the settings during the Great Naval Battle were 50% CAP, no rest %, and range 6 for all fighter squadrons (except those few squadrons with lower ranges).


I would not set cap to zero. Depending on DL and radar CAP will extend out quite a few hexes and then can protect stragglers or damaged ships that detach and head for home. I always leave fighters on CAP at normal range. Assuming that you have VR squadrons along for spares and considering your abundance of carrier fighters you should look for the opportunity to shoot down any Japanese aircraft that flies near you. Your radar would have probably scrambled more fighters if they were needed. They were not. Don't fret it. %40 Cap is fine but as you close boost it to 50% or %60. But if your ships are all upgraded with the latest air search radar you should be fine.

I can't believe how pitiful your anti sub results have been You should be sinking 3-4 of his subs when you run into a flock of them like that. Considering the ASW assets you now possess with the new MK 9 DC and your DC laden DEs. DW is right about it in his earlier post. He may be a Matrix Trooper but you should listen to what he says. One 18 plane avenger squadron set to 4 hexes and 80% ASW (make sure the pilots have decent skills) will totally reverse your losses. You will get multiple air attacks on his subs with lots of hits reported (most are not) and it will raise the DL of the Japanese subs to the point where many will not attack, and your ASW ships will react to them like dogs to a cheeseburger and smack the snot out of them. You can afford at this point to spare an attack squadron. After all, a couple of torpedo hits on a CV will reduce you by 90 aircraft. Usually, I prefer using a squadron on a CVE for the ASW job Do this and you can thank us later.... "There is no off position on the genius switch." That is why we are here..

Also, many Japanese bomber commanders have very high aggression ratings. This will at times cause them to act (wait for it) in an aggressive manner. Not necessarily in their best interest.



This is a fair point - and one that I just approach as the cost of doing business with an exceedingly effective CAP in a single hex. Since I often move my ships their full allotment on the turn of battle, escort TFs are typically still in that hex. The exception would be when a sub picks one off.

The aggression is also a fair point, but I suppose my air combat climate is a bit different than CR's. If you use CAP with a range setting, then it may cause Japanese units to attempt to strike at scattered TFs and get shot down by CAP. However, my experience with "ranged" CAP is also that the initial strike on hex(es) that are not the "home base" hex get let off easy as the CAP is late to arrive - or doesn't arrive at all.

For the ASW, it's not 1944 yet. 1943 Allied ASW is good, but not yet great.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 3:13:57 AM   
Canoerebel


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11/4/43

Big Tent: A busy day but a good day in that the herd had no hostile encounters. The lagging TFs are drawing close now. The armada will juke WSW four hexes tomorrow - a last chance for the laggards to draw close. Then the armada speeds up to five hexes per day until it hits the first beach, which is 22 hexes distant.

John is using aggression, partly to distract/unnerve and partly to find victims. He won't succeed in the first objective. He may in the second, but the jury's out on whether the expense will be worth it. Is he blunting and dispersing assets he could use better to hit the herd? Massed enemy air hit Tarawa to little effect. Another well-escorted strike hit Maloelap port, where badly damaged BB Washington has been hiding for months. He lost 30 Franks and Georges (I lost 10 or so Warhawks and Lightnings). He might come for Washington, but I doubt he has BBs stuck down here. He also has a raiding force south of the Aleutians. I admire his tactics here, but they shouldn't have any real effect.

Recon continues to show the immense buildup in the Marianas. A well-thought-out and effective strategy on John's part, but they aren't the target. I wouldn't come after a nest of atolls unless I had a decent naval base nearby to replenish BBs. But he wouldn't know that. Too, the fall Wake and other atolls, and Allied carrier superiority (if not now, previously) undoubtedly raised concern about security closer to the Home Islands. That's natural and what I was hoping for/counting on.

D-Day 1 should take place in five days. Eldorado will be implemented in about three days. All signs continue to lead me to believe that the soft underbelly is indeed that.

Lion Tamer: Tanna switches to the Allies. Another small landing takes place tomorrow at the dot hex to the north.

Third Ring: This is the follow up operation to follow Big Tent. Fuel and troops are prepositioned. If Big Tent goes well and doesn't incur heavy losses, the Allies can follow on it with another major operation.

The Enemy: John will attack the herd at some point, but I do think he'll take offensive action in the "vacuum" created by the Allies committing so much offensive power to Big Tent. I wouldn't be surprised if Wake falls. That I will lament, because I'll have to retake it later. But action in the Marshalls or Aleutians would be essentially irrelevant. Action against Midway would also be a real problem, but John might be reluctant to take on a base that the Allies have held and built up since 12/7/41.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:44:45 AM   
Flicker

 

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Hmm. Satawal is 22 hexes away AND it's an atoll.

For carrier CAP I usually use 30 Escort / 10 Training / 20 Rest in friendly water, then 50/10/20 when in unfriendly, then 80/20 in bandit country, then 100% in expected action / action. It seems to work OK but what do I know - I've never played a human.


< Message edited by Flicker -- 6/22/2016 4:51:21 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 8:40:39 AM   
JeffroK


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After your landing, have an alternate line of retreat for your TF so that your TF arent picked off.

Though thats how JIII got beat up last time??

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 11:25:30 AM   
Canoerebel


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There is an alternate route of retreat (actually two, but one is highly preferred). The preferred route has tankers waiting and lots of combat troops ready to board assault ships for Operation Third Ring.

There could be many reasons Third Ring can't go forward, the main one being if Big Tent gets beat up. But if Big Tent is successful at acceptable cost, assets are in position for the next op. The only thing lacking is PP to buy out a few important units, but PP are accumulating now (after spending a lot swapping out Big Tent ship captains). 1166 PP on hand. By the time Big Tent wraps up, there should be plenty.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 11:42:34 AM   
Canoerebel


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11/5/43

Big Tent: Yesterday all ASW assets replenished, so the main body of the herd only moved three hexes. This allowed all TFs to rendezvous (some are actually a hex ahead now). So the "sprint" to the beach commences tomorrow. The herd is 19 hexes away and should move at 5 or 6 hexes per day (I'll try for 6 tomorrow and see how it goes).

There were a few altercations with enemy subs today, with one TK lost to sub gunfire. Allied ASW sank one sub and badly damaged another. It may well be that the changes made after your tutoring yesterday made the difference.

Interesting intel on IJN combat ship deployment as three BBs are sighted between Nauru and Ocean islands, well to the east of the center of attention. Those sighted are Kirishima, Haruna and Mutsu (the latter was out of the war for more than a year after being hung up at Tavoy with heavy damage throughout the Sumatra campaign). Beautforts sortie against meager CAP but miss. One IJN DD is hit by a bomb-toting TBF at long range. The BBs show an easterly heading and might be tasked to bombard Tarawa (or hunt BB Washington at Maloelap). There's a chance John has amphibious plans in the Marshalls. But if these BBs continue east, that's good no matter what they're up to.

Japanese strike aircraft again sortie vs. Tarawa airfield (little damage) and Malaoelap (coming out short again in the fight against good Allied CAP).

John may have gracious plenty air and naval assets in the Marianas and vicinity to handle what's coming, so I don't know if he's taking the edge off the massed force he might otherwise employ. I hope so.

A scouting YMS has nearly completed a circuit of the Marianas undetected. John's nav search must be vectored to the SE, and KB must not be right here.

USN combat TFs are inbound to Maloelap from Pearl to help extract Washington. I'm debating whether to send the damaged BB east. She's done as much repairs as she can (her speed was 5 knots when she arrived, it's 8 now and all minor damaged is fixed). If she leaves now, she might be able to rendezvous with the USN TFs out of harm's way. But at only 8 knots, she'll go about 4 hexes a turn and will be too close to enemy air at Roi for a few turns. Flee the enemy BBs or wait for the USN? The latter, I think. Let John have a target so that he is looking to the east and blunting his airforce, tiring his pilots.

Lion Tamer: Landings at two dot hexes around Tanna underway, as I'm doing away with enemy dot hexes to avoid John using them for search aircraft. Eventually he'll deploy something down here that takes out an xAK/xAP or two.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/22/2016 11:56:06 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 11:48:22 AM   
Encircled


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BBs down near Ocean and Nauru, after all the action recently?

That seems to be er "interesting play"

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 1:29:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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One of the enjoyable aspects of reading matched AARs is having full information and seeing how one side of the other is interpreting partial information. With that in mind, here's my thoughts on what the IJN BB sighting means.

These battleships are deployed in the Ocean/Nauru region for one of two reasons: (1) John thought the most likely target was Eniwetok (or maybe Truk) and he wanted the BBs in range to strike from the south, or (2) they're involved in amphibious or bombardment missions in the Marshalls. The former seems unlikely since the ships are now heading east; the latter is possible but seems to be a wasteful use of an important assets, diverting it from the scene of conflict just when it will be most needed.

SigInt continues to suggest that John was almost entirely focused on reinforcing and defending the Marshalls, Carolines, Marianas and Marcus. The Solomons were already strongly garrisoned, so he probably just tweaked things there.

All signs continue to show that the soft underbelly is indeed soft. And if those BBs don't turn around now, they won't be available at the moment of maximum danger to the herd, as it rumbles in proximity to Truk.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/22/2016 1:32:25 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 1:49:26 PM   
JohnDillworth


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As to the WaWahington. If you have a CVE I'm bed that and have the Avengers do 40/40 search/ASW plus add some as ships. She will be easy picking for any subs so maximize your chances

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 1:59:46 PM   
Canoerebel


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That's one reason I kept Washington at Maloelap so long: John had lots of subs east of the Marshalls. I felt pretty sure that he'd divert them to face Big Tent. I think he already has. But I also thought he might send his aircraft to the Marianas. Then I'd have the window needed to send Washington home. But now he's sniffed her out. I don't want to lose her, but if she serves as bait, drawing John's attention, it migth be worth it.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 2:53:47 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Well watch your weather. If you get couple of days of storms you might be ably to put some distance between him

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 3:03:22 PM   
jwolf

 

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So far the movement of "the herd" is doing a great job of selling the Marianas as the target. I don't know if John thinks that or not but it seems likely. I'm impressed that you already have the next op forming

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 3:47:50 PM   
HansBolter


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I realize a lot of players think the Kingfishers are not well suited for ASW due to their limited range, but I use them in that role for protecting the close in approaches to my ports, both major ports and front line ports.

I also use rebuilt or orphaned cruiser Kingfisher squadrons to operate from the very few American AVs that have a capacity like the AV Wright.

The Wright with 4 float planes aboard performing ASW becomes a very nice shepherd for wounded ducklings.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 6/22/2016 3:51:40 PM >


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 3:48:51 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

So far the movement of "the herd" is doing a great job of selling the Marianas as the target. I don't know if John thinks that or not but it seems likely. I'm impressed that you already have the next op forming

Yep, and after the next jog southward he will be thinking "That's it! He's going to the Solomons!"

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 3:59:31 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Me thinks it is too late for a coherent naval response but I suspect the air attacks start in the next turn or so. looks like it may be xtream range for Zeros. Enter the Betty's

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:07:24 PM   
poodlebrain

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I realize a lot of players think the Kingfishers are not well suited for ASW due to their limited range, but I use them in that role for protecting the close in approaches to my ports, both major ports and front line ports.

I also use rebuilt or orphaned cruiser Kingfisher squadrons to operate from the very few American AVs that have a capacity like the AV Wright.

The Wright with 4 float planes aboard performing ASW becomes a very nice shepherd for wounded ducklings.
My major cause for reluctance to use Kingfisher squadrons from front line bases is that I can usually find better uses for my aviation support. I hadn't considered your use on an AV as escort. I'll have to give it a try.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:08:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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I've spent alot of time trying to figure out how to manage the threat from LBA (or LBA + KB).

I'm trying to minimize exposure to "nests" of multiple big airfields. So I've steered clear of the Marianas, and I'm trying not to let Truk, Eniwetok and Ponape gang up on Death Star. I think I can be mostly successful in this effort, as any raids from these "nests" would be at long-enough range that I think Netties would get chewed up.

Truk is going to be the choke point. The only vector is to sail close to that fortress, which has a level eight airfield. Again, I think Death Star can handle it by itself. My concern is KB teaming up with Truk. John should have a window of two to three turns while proximity is optimal for him.

I'm allowing for the possibility that he'll commit KB, of course, but I don't think he will. I think he'll keep trying to figure out where I'm going (he's probably hoping, praying, beseaching the ancestors, for a Marianas/KB combined strike). It's possible that he'll remain just that bit uncertain until the window closes. Once Death Star is about eight hexes on the other side of Truk, I'll begin breathing again.

The fact that he's using some of his airforce against hard targets in the Marshalls, and the fact that multiple IJN BBs are down there, is the most encouraging thing I've seen yet.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:28:30 PM   
poodlebrain

 

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quote:

Truk is going to be the choke point. The only vector is to sail close to that fortress, which has a level eight airfield.
Truk is only a Lvl 5 airfield on the stock map. A 60% increase in capacity is huge. Any other changes to bases that were added to the JFB wish list for this scenario?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:36:14 PM   
Lokasenna


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At the very least, you could (eventually) move an ARD to Maloelap once his attention is sufficiently elsewhere?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:36:52 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

quote:

Truk is going to be the choke point. The only vector is to sail close to that fortress, which has a level eight airfield.
Truk is only a Lvl 5 airfield on the stock map. A 60% increase in capacity is huge. Any other changes to bases that were added to the JFB wish list for this scenario?


I think it might be a Scen 2 change, which is technically stock.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 6/22/2016 4:39:17 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 4:43:33 PM   
Canoerebel


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An ARD is enroute from San Fran to Pearl, but it is 30 tons and Washington is 38 tons. So it won't work, will it?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 5:14:33 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

An ARD is enroute from San Fran to Pearl, but it is 30 tons and Washington is 38 tons. So it won't work, will it?

No.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 5:18:03 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

quote:

Truk is going to be the choke point. The only vector is to sail close to that fortress, which has a level eight airfield.
Truk is only a Lvl 5 airfield on the stock map. A 60% increase in capacity is huge. Any other changes to bases that were added to the JFB wish list for this scenario?

CR is not an expert in this scenario - John III is. It would be unfair to make CR research all the changes made.

Here is the link to scenarios available which should lead you to this scenario and the developers notes on changes:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3088504

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/22/2016 5:29:16 PM   
crsutton


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[/quote]



For the ASW, it's not 1944 yet. 1943 Allied ASW is good, but not yet great.
[/quote]


I suppose results can vary depending on the opponent but I look to have the Japanese sub force subdued by mid 1943 with approximately half sunk by then. Most of your PC, SC, DE and DD type ships have modern radar and upgraded DC platforms by early 43. And you should have plenty of ships by then. Upgrades after 1943 are not that significant. The only real difference is the slew of DE and PFs that you get after 1/44 But frankly, in my last campaign they had little to do. Many overlook the large US minesweepers that get great ASW weapons in early 43 as well. My opponent Viberpol is top notch (just ask John about that) and tends to ignore my merchants and go after war ships with his subs. I actually do the same as the Allies. However, by mid 43 I really just look upon it as an opportunity to sink Japanese subs. After all, Donitz pulled the Atlantic U-boat force out of action in the mid ocean after May 1943.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/23/2016 1:33:32 AM   
Canoerebel


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John has suddenly gone "dark." I'm not pressing him, because it may be an important turn for him or he may be focusing on family or work.

I sent him the turn this morning. He's been online twice while I was on during the day or evening, but he hasn't sent any messages to say, "The turn's coming" or "not coming" or "sorry, I'm busy."

I expect he'll send it sometime tonight. In the meantime, I'm trying to write a story based upon my Summer Solstice Eve full moon hike this past Sunday evening. The words are coming grudgingly, but it's fun to try to find effective words - the right words - to describe the outing while entertaining a reader.

Mark Twain quote: "The difference between the right word and the perfect word is like the difference between a lightning bug and lightning."

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/23/2016 3:12:33 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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How about "It was a dark and stormy Summer solstice night"?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/23/2016 3:18:37 AM   
Anachro


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I do like Dark n' Stormies.

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