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So Ridiculous turn - 4/16/2016 3:30:40 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Turn after turn after turn, i feel so deeply frustrated by this game.

After 2 or 3 weeks trying to learn how to give orders, i did manage more or less the essence of the game.
But achieving result seems impossible.

Let's have a look at a mini AAR of a turn. This was turn 12.
It is not an intense turn, because the weather above northern europe was rainy.

First of all i have a look at my loss. As usual, the loss are heavy, especially the vehicules. The AI don't seem to be hurt a lot.

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/16041604450193010.jpg.html][/URL][/image]

and here

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416044546392259.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

the vp of the prévious turn is so funny.
The bombing score roughly 2 to 4 points per turn, and the U-boats minus the VP between -2 to -4 per turn, despite my efforts to close these factories. The US losses of the turn down the results. Great !! so cool.

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/16041604463046641.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


let's have a look to my air forces before giving Air Directive.
The Bomber command have a lot of Halifax and Stirling squadrons with low morale. Usually after 2 weeks of missions ( 2 or 3 flight a week, not everyday !) and with not too much loss, it drop to 20 ????

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416044749251604.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


the 8th is is very good shape this week there will be only 5 Groups with a morale above 50.

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/16041604482039358.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


Having helped to land around Salerno, the Strategic Air Force is also tired. Can't ask anything to these damn pilots

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416044850866179.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


let's have a look at the turn.

The Sweep of the Fighter Command didn't flew above Belgium for wathever reason.
The 8AF don't launch any raid far above germany, because so many B-17 Groups need rest. Let's make a nearby raid in Holland, covered by P-47.
The Luftwaffe have so loss, at least.

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045013332439.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

But for 200 heavy bomber, the result seems not very good.

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045040478560.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


Above Wilhelmshaven, for the first time the U-boat factory suffer more than a couple percent damage.

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045119769297.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

Above Danzig the results are as frustrating as usual. Why to send planes doing nothing ???

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045154701300.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

Think it's better above Bremen ???

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045235622192.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

that was a nice turn, i think i should earn a nice -6 VP probably next turn.

Let's see what happen in Italy.

First of all, i still don't understand this screen, whatever the result of your reconn, you ALWAYS have a message about an air recon value of +0 !!! useless kind of message.

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045322934516.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

I have already had advice about recon, having 12 planes or more on a flight, and giving the good altitude, according to the type of camera the planes have. I can even adapt the load out for some recon planes.

Now, i tried to slow the germans units in Italy. Interdiction AD where given. Once more, the results are frustrating to say the least.


Sending 40 Marauder is useless. That i didn't knew. What should be useful, 4000 B-26 ?????????? Why try to interdict with such results ?

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045502534015.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

I have 3 more screenshots of these 40 B-26 having results of zero on others hex ( 4 days of missions in the week, one flight per day).

here is the best : i had 1 points !!!! whaow, so greaaat

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416050428252120.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


this is the result on the map : should i comment ?


[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045649736054.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


Now i must absolutely talk about the Uber-Menschen that Matrix had decided to have for germans units.
Of courses the poor italians, here in Sardinia, as western allies troops, are ridiculous. They loose 300 hundred mens for absolutely no german loss. This is normal, everyone know the italians were so poor soldiers, right ??? (this is ironic)


[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045733547969.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


Now, i try for the 4th week to take Messina.
I have read somewhere that numerous attacks should at least break the defender.
Who pretend this bullshit ???

The first attack by the XIII corps, nearly 30000 brits, receive the support of 40 planes ( there something weird here, i supposed there coold be more than this).
See the loss ????????? 1200 brits for 70 germans soldiers ???
Nothing to be shocked, that is normal, the germans were sooooo goood at warfare ?
(ironical once again).

[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045849939891.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

Anyway now we can see the Vth corps can have far worst results !!!


[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045915310755.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

ARE YOU F...ING kidding me ?


Let's have a look in Mainland Italy. It seem absolutely uselless to try to catch Naples


[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416045945331510.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

A german regiment with 3 AA bn is stronger than 2 US Armored Div !!

i take a look at the germans units surrounding me.
The movement points of my troops don't allow me to outmaneuver, and the strenght of the ennemy don't allow me to fight


[image] [URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160416051004338814.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]



enough is enough.
Too much frustration don't give the will to continue. Always having bad result, despite reading the AAR here and trying to learn advice, making roughly the same things as others and not reaching the same results, this is FRUSTRATING.

Can't stand this bullshit.
Must find something else.

This could have been a great game. But there are some issues that are unbearable.
Stop.

< Message edited by gladiatt -- 4/16/2016 3:58:55 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 4/16/2016 5:43:03 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Gladiatt, this game has high learning curve, so don't be discouraged if there are still lots of things that you haven't got a handle on yet. If you stick with this game you will be glad you did.

My comments are as follows:

1. Read my AAR for beginners. It dos give some advice on the Strategic Air War which seems to be what you need the most help with at the moment.

2. Vehicle (truck) losses of 2000 per turn are nothing for the Allies, a mere drop in the bucket. Don't worry, it is unlikely that you will run out of trucks as the Allies.

3.If it is Turn 12 and you are only scoring 4 Strategic bombing VPs per turn, then that is not good. But don't worry, you can do a lot better once you learn a few tricks and gain more experience.

4. You will generally find that you will have to rest about 1/3rd of Bomber Command and 8th every turn; that is normal. But there are anomalies. Some turns I experience very little morale drop and other turns it seems like I will to Rest almost the whole air force. As the Allies I Rest any air group with a morale of less than 55.

5. I will often move all my Wellingtons and Stirlings out of Bomber Command and into my tactical air forces. The Wellington can not take a lot of damage and the Stirling has a low maximum ceiling.

6.If BC and 8th are only flying 2 or 3 missions per week than you shouldn't have to rest more than about 1/3rd of them (on average) each turn. 8th should fly at an altitude of 25,000 to 27,000. Bomber Command at an altitude of 21,000 or 22,000. Be sure to plot the path of your missions to avoid enemy flak on the way to the target. DO NOT ACCEPT THE DEFAULT FLIGHT PATHS.

7. If you are flying Bomber Command at night it should not perform missions outside of the Night Radar zone (or whatever it is called). I see in one screenshot you have Lancasters bombing Danzig at night and Wellies bombing Bremen. Both are outside the Night Bombing Zone so it is no surprise that your bombers missed the targets. While performing night bombing missions Bomber Command should stick to bombing the Ruhr. Leave the interior targets to 8th.

8. Check your bomb loadouts and change them if necessary. The AI will often replace bombs with fuel tanks when it isn't necessary.

9. I find it far more effective to make 6 bombing attacks with 50 bombers each rather than one bombing attack with 300 bombers. Not sure why that is, but it seems to be the case.

More advice later, I have to run.

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 2
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 4/16/2016 5:59:02 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline 		gladiatt, you need to add some engineers to your corps attacks. The Americans have loads of them and the British have some at corps level. Disperse them around your corps and then attach them directly to the divisions you are going to attack with.

The game can be frustrating and I agree that the Germans can seem massively overpowered at times. However, if you persevere you will learn the intricacies and nuances you need to win as the Allies. The Allies won historically and they can and do in this game.



< Message edited by XXXCorps -- 4/16/2016 6:00:55 PM >

_____________________________

War In The East 2 Beta Tester and
War In The West Operation Torch Beta Tester
XXXCorps

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 3
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 4/16/2016 6:04:44 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		my advice is aimed more a my skill level than maybe your's,

play on easy, with FOW off, and play the game from smallest to largest until you can win on these settings before you progress onto anything harder, iv'e been on it since it came out and have only now got onto normal level, but still play with FOW off, there's no shame in learning and letting it help you for a while longer, until you feel you have mastered a given task and are ready to move on and upwards.

these epic games aren't for a weekend to master, unless you can remember the manual and don't no longer needed to keep reading it that is, the AI is good on normal, but anything harder than that, it will cause most players head ache's, that's how it is, that's life, no need to say any other wise, it's not a good game either, it's a great and epic game, that have many good and great players, but very very few masters

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 4
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 6/23/2016 5:04:28 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Still can't figure out combat results.

Are Matrix peoples pros-germans ????? Do they think theses soldiers were Uber-mensch ? How do they explain that germany loose war if their soldier get so good results ?

Have some examples :

despite the fact that defenders held, do you think that 444 loss on the allies side is credible when ennemy loose only 66 ? Do you think 19 tanks against 200 could have no loss ?

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/16062306090448010.jpg.html][/URL][/image]

On this second one, problem is not the result, but the hex i have hilighted : allied Combat unit have forces defender to leave Geta, but no unit can enter it. Is it sérious, how can you force someone to leave a place without following him close enough to take the place.

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160623061141942615.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]


This third one puzzle me too: 900 losses against 85 ???? No kidding ?????? What's on there ?

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160623061306600882.jpg.html][/URL] [/image]

This forth is nice too. I dont mind about tanks loss, there are nearly the same number on each side. But 56 germans losses for 880 british loss ? Come on, these guys know how to fire a rifle or use their artillery unit.

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160623061735245632.jpg.html][/URL][/image]



After weeks of stubbornly trying, i still don't understand/admit such results. This still seem to me too big a advantage for the axis side.


(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 5
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 6/23/2016 5:47:24 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		The first attack is attacking a well dug in mountain position. Your tanks are virtually worthless in this situation, and they represent a lot of your combat power. You must look at the terrain of where you are attacking. You have unit names showing and not CV values. Although CVs can be misleading, you should turn them on. Before you make an attack, you will see in the rollover over the enemy hex the estimated CV values of the attacker and defender forces. You must have a clear advantage in this (others can give you rules of thumb on how to judge whether you have enough CV given the situation).

In the battle against the weak fortified unit, you should have kept one unit from being in the attack, so it could advance after you win. This is the one battle you were clearly going to win and didn't need to include all the units.

In one battle you are attacking rough terrain with a force only equal to the defender, and again where your armored division was not effective. In the other, you attacked a clear hex, but it was fortified and with a strong Panzer Division, and you attacked with effectively 1 to 1 odds in men and tanks. These kinds of attacks are basically suicide. I also see no aircraft coming into the battles on ground support. This would help, although it would not be enough to make up for the bad attacks. You could probably take that mountain hex if you concentrated enough infantry units to attack it since it is a weak force, but all the other situations were not good places to attack. Italy was absolutely the worst place to fight a ground war, and the Allies paid for it (read about Monte Cassino and how the Allied beachhead was called the largest self-supplied POW camp.

As for Messina, you probably need to use your airpower and or amphib HQs to try to isolate the Germans there in which case you will be able to force their surrender as they run out of ammunition.

I suggest you try a scenario like Breakout and Pursuit, where you don't have to worry about strategic bombing and you can learn how to make good ground attacks. In this scenario you have an air force that can apply large interdiction to the battlefield which will help a lot in breaking the German line. You don't have enough aircraft in Italy to provide decent interdiction levels (you can focus a lot on a few hexes if mass aircraft, but that's about it).

I know this can be really frustrating. Take zak's advice and play on easy to start. Hopefully others will give you some pointers as well.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 6
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 6/23/2016 5:55:53 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		easy with FOW off, learn the system, watch how the AI plays and counters your moves and displays all the results, as learning means loosing most of the time, once you want a challenge, alter it to normal and keep FOW off until you win and win easy, then and only then remove FOW or alter the difficulty, games like this take months to learn, years to master, and most of the time, until your really good win, on some battles map from a given side and difficulty

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 6/25/2016 10:07:54 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
An answer by Joel Billings himself
thanks for teh reply, and for the advice and analysis.
Sure Italy is a bad place to land, but as is play the whool campaign, i grabed the land i coold (Sicily was already a hard time for me....), but i was really surprised by so bad results. Thanks one more for the answer.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 8
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 6/25/2016 8:09:19 PM   
barkhorn45

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Attacking a forted up force in rugged terrain 1-1 i'm surprised your losses weren't higher,from desertion's"The old man's nut's,see ya!"

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 9
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 7/3/2016 5:14:09 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		All good things have an end, and being stubborn sometimes lead to being stupid. This is my case.

I can't understand why people making AAR on this forum have better result than me. Where exactly am i more stupid than the others players. What can explain so great difference between their results and mine ?

Tactical air is supposed to reduce ennemy. Great level of interdiction "should" help hinder ennemy capacity.
I 've been told that 4 engines bomber are not for tac support. Ok, let's use them for strat bombing. (and i don't even speak of my very bad results here). 2 engines bombers, i've been told that they are not good at ground support...and they are not good at strat bomb either. Well, wy do they exist in this case ?
Seriously, Tac support in this war was mainly done by 2 engines planes !!


Ok, i've been told that Fighter bombers were the right planes to crush the ennemy....where ? When ? How ?
I've made recons, i've changed the load out of these planes so they can have the heaviest. Their flight is pretty short, there is a big superiority above them.
And what happens ? Usually, when there are differents ennemy units, they choose the worst of it, and rarely bomb the big panzer :

see the name of the unit for target ? And there is a panzer in the same hex, that was not aimed at. Don't come and say that's random. That's not true !! random is usually 90% of time screwed by such choice of target.
(i must tell here that when i choose a area for target, let's say an hex, with a 1 radius, thus making 7 hex as choice; well, usually, there will be half (or more) of the bombing that will go on the worst choice of target!! the less powerful ennemy unit, or the less critical hex, always to p...me off)

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/16070306183342176.jpg.html][/URL][/image]

And the results ???? Awful, as usual. 200 hundred bombers knock out 65 mens of a poor security regiment, and that's all !! And the level of interdiction : 0 , as usual !!

[image][URL=http://www.casimages.com/i/160703061948656846.jpg.html][/URL][/image]

Do you think that is an isolated exemple ? No !!
i don't have others screens to produce, but if i had good results from time to time, i won't be ranting here.

How do others players manage to have results ? What do i do wrong ? Where is the difference, i can't understand. Even after advice, explanations, hours of reading AAR, i still CANT GET IT
May be everything i do is wrong ????? May be i am far more stupid than i thought ???? That is a hard way to discover that i am dumb. Thinking of it, i am bad at every game i try. That's it, i'm a jerk, a stupid awful idiot.

This could have been a great game. But there is too many things going wrong in the results.
I can't handle the AI, just imagine against a human player ???????
I cant' bear this game anymore.

< Message edited by gladiatt -- 7/3/2016 5:17:25 PM >

(in reply to barkhorn45)
Post #: 10
RE: So Ridiculous turn - 7/13/2016 7:34:04 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

There are many ways you can go wrong in bombing.

If the target has a lot of FLAK.....it will be hard to get good interdiction numbers. Using the correct aircraft (with the correct bomb load) will give you better interdiction numbers. Altitude is important.

Level bombers are not that good at interdiction. The Marauders are best used at bombing the enemy airfields...rail yards....etc.
The Figher Bombers should be set to bomber mode. FB instead of FB-F. Auto is fine for bomb load out, or you can pick something with more bombs rather then one big one. Since Fighter Bombers are fast, they can get away with bombing at a lower altitude...say around 9000 feet.

Number of sorties is also important..the more times you fly, the more bombing you can do. However the more damage you will take from FLAK which will lower your morale. Morale is important. Only fly planes above 60 or more morale. Let the others rest.

Here is an example....lets say I know there is a hex I want to attack.

I pick an airforce loaded with FB's....say typhoons or hurricanes. I will set a bomb unit mission with say...2-3 squadrons (with good morale). From 9000 feet. I will fly every day. The target square will be 0...so it only hits that hex.

Then I will repeat it 5-6 more times with 2-3 squadrons from the same air HQ. (say 2nd RAF). The hex is going to be hit 6 times everyday until the planes cant fly anymore.

At some point the unit will have taken all the damage it can take...so you will learn to cut back on the bombing..bomb for 3 days instead of 7...you get a feel for it.


The unit may not show a lot of 'dead' but there will be a lot of disruptions...reducing the fighting strength of the hex. Attack it...with the level bombers on Ground Support mission for the attacking army.

Even if you don't take the hex...you will probably have inflicted more damage on him then he has on you...making it easier to take next turn.




_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 11
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