Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

More DBB

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> More DBB Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
More DBB - 7/18/2016 7:06:15 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
Getting new legs switched out from the old ones at Pensacola. Going to be here for a while. John is just 40 miles away and brings me Glenfiddich and cigars. When I am not in PT, I don't have much to do. How about I finish up Op-SF?

Matt
Post #: 1
RE: More DBB - 7/18/2016 8:08:49 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:37:42 AM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 2
RE: More DBB - 7/18/2016 10:20:51 PM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline
It would be great, I love DBB mods

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 3
RE: More DBB - 7/19/2016 2:12:49 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Matt-

Am deeply appreciative of your generous offer. Would really love to see Op-SF; I know that it will reflect the Babes Team's attention to detail and historical accuracy.

While I play (and enjoy!) AE Stock and the other fine Mods that are available in the forums, my heart lays with the Babes Scenarios.

And: Tell John that his presence is missed- with all the incredible amount of fascinating historical minutiae, information and a clear understanding of how the AE executable and programming interacts and works, that he has on call.

And:

I am, at least from my perspective, very aware that John was the driving force behind a very talented Team, making it all happen- posting the Babes Scenarios so that I, and the other Babes enthusiasts could enjoy them.

Again- am just delighted that we have a "Babes Guy" (TM) back on the scene!

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 7/19/2016 2:16:36 AM >


_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 4
RE: More DBB - 7/19/2016 2:41:11 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
What is Op-SF?

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 5
RE: More DBB - 7/19/2016 4:48:33 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Hi Dili-

Here is the link:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3678596&mpage=1&key=Op%2DSF�

Hope this helps, Sir.

Mac

_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 6
RE: More DBB - 7/19/2016 1:43:19 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline
YES YES YES.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 7
RE: More DBB - 7/19/2016 2:15:20 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Hi Dili-

Here is the link:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3678596&mpage=1&key=Op%2DSF�

Hope this helps, Sir.

Mac


Thanks. interesting scenario.

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 8
RE: More DBB - 7/20/2016 12:10:14 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Tell John that his presence is missed- with all the incredible amount of fascinating historical minutiae, information and a clear understanding of how the AE executable and programming interacts and works, that he has on call.


+1 - well said, Mac.


_____________________________


(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 9
RE: More DBB - 7/20/2016 3:08:54 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
+2

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 10
RE: More DBB - 7/21/2016 5:20:48 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
I'm not John. I have my own take on things.

There is a rule book for this scenario. Think of it as serving the same purpose as a booklet of rules for miniatures. Just because the computer makes something physically possible does not mean the rules allow it. Not a rule, but a difference, the scenario is at brigade(regiment)/battalion level. There are no divisions; there is no breaking down and no recombining. We don’t have rules for fragments because none of us would be so lame as to cheat that way. But this should address the issue: any intentional creation or use of a fragment results in an automatic victory for the other side – game over.

Naval Rules:
IJN and Allied: CV-TFs can only operate in “cardivs”. A cardiv is defined as a maximum of 2 Fleet CVs with associated escort vessels. Multiple CV-TFs may operate in a hex, but no individual CV-TF may have more than 2 CVs.

IJN and Allied: Amphibious TFs may only be comprised of AP and AK type ships. These are the only vessels that troops may load on for amphibious landings and the only vessels that may carry supply in amph-TF mode. Period. For the IJN, specific xAKs are denoted xAK-t and are considered AK for the scenario. A player may not use the conversion option to avoid/expand this restriction.

IJN and Allied: Troops may be transported from point-to-point in a transport TF, never an amphib TF, using xAPs only. These vessels are never available for amphib ops.

You people willing to play under these conditions I'll go forward. Otherwise ....

Matt


(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 11
RE: More DBB - 7/21/2016 5:35:16 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline
Matt, I'm seeing an issue in DBB-C regarding the ship type LCS(L).

It's one of the rocket ships. It can only be placed in a transport or support task force -- not an amphib group. This pretty much neuters the ship as it can't really be used. I'm guessing this is set up in the scenario and not the game engine.

Ed

_____________________________


(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 12
RE: More DBB - 7/21/2016 5:51:45 PM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline
I like these restrictions but I have a question: can you explain to me the fragments issue?

Thanks

(in reply to Mundy)
Post #: 13
RE: More DBB - 7/21/2016 6:55:04 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
@Mundy, my brief is to finish the scenario. It is not to address issues. Sorry.

@Alessandro, fragments are cheats that unscrupulous computer people like to use. If you are not familiar with fragments, it means you play clean. The rule is only there to show the toilet to unethical players.

Matt

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 14
RE: More DBB - 7/22/2016 12:32:22 AM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline
Matt, maybe I play in the wrong play ignoring the fact.
I.e. I have a badly mauled unit that I want to save from complete destruction, sending some barge/SS/ship to recover it before the final assault, would this situation be wrong? I hope not.

When exactly it will be a gamey move, create a fragment even if your unit is in perfect shape and not in immediate danger, can be the case?

Thanks again

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 15
RE: More DBB - 7/22/2016 4:32:46 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

John is just 40 miles away and brings me Glenfiddich and cigars.

So is he in Ft Walton Beach/Destin area?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 16
RE: More DBB - 7/22/2016 3:39:25 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
@Alessandro, Perhaps a better reading of it is no intentional fragment creation and use thereof to acquire an operational advantage.
Fragments have been used to arbitrarily close off hex side ownership, block supply routes, force unrealistic retreat/movement vectors, etc. In a big game I can understand their utility for rescuing a cadre when it hits the fan and it’s a sauve qui peut. I also understand their necessity for loading/air-dropping the light echelons of a para unit, while the heavier echelons are subsequently air-transported to the captured base.

The rule itself can get quite complex if we try to define the different aspects of it. So we don’t try. Instead, our games/matches/exercises/problems are moderated through an umpire. Since umpires are not possible for the Babes AE scenarios, the simplest rule is no fragments. But if you understand the concept differentials expressed above, and your heart and mind are pure, I see no impediment to an intelligent/realistic use of fragments.

One proviso .. our umpires require a cadre fragment to be transported directly to a main rear-area base, where it must sit till at least 50% reconstituted. If the parent somehow survives, it must be reunited with the fragment at the first opportunity. The fragment must sit till either reconstituted or reunited. See how complex the rule can get? I hope this explains our paradigm a bit better.

@PaxMundo. The other direction, southern part of the eastern shore of Mobile Bay in Point Clear, AL.

John says hello to all and wishes you well.

Matt


< Message edited by US87891 -- 7/22/2016 3:43:39 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 17
RE: More DBB - 7/22/2016 8:57:27 PM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline
Hello Matt,

I think I now understand what you mean, thanks for the explanation!
And glad to have played fair so far.

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 18
RE: More DBB - 7/22/2016 10:54:21 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:37:36 AM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 19
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 3:30:12 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
Two quick questions.

What's the latest AE Michael update download number? I should work and test with what people are using. My old install has 1123 from 2014.

Where did you people get those pretty map graphics files? My notes say they come from Timothy Leary??

J's diving the Oriskany this weekend so I can't ask him. I have to depend on you all to bring me up to speed with your latest AE install and visual graphics.

Thanks. Matt

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 20
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 3:42:43 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

Two quick questions. (One answer here.)

What's the latest AE Michael update download number? I should work and test with what people are using. My old install has 1123 from 2014.

Thanks. Matt

Not sure about the art. Hope this answers the latest Beta query.

Michael attaches the latest to the first post in this thread (always updates the attachment in the first post), often puts notes as the most recent post.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3185062
The attachment currently is:
AEupdate1125m.zip

Shows up as this number in-game:




Whoops! Ignore that number from the attached image. He has an update later than the one I have loaded which I did not notice until now.

The link and quote of the attachment name are current.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by witpqs -- 7/23/2016 7:36:13 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 21
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 4:09:53 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
That latest (m) version shows this version number in-game.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by witpqs -- 7/23/2016 4:15:37 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 22
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 7:18:44 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
Another vote and offering of thanks from the peanut gallery for attention to completing the DBB mod.


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 23
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 7:55:49 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mundy

Matt, I'm seeing an issue in DBB-C regarding the ship type LCS(L).

It's one of the rocket ships. It can only be placed in a transport or support task force -- not an amphib group. This pretty much neuters the ship as it can't really be used. I'm guessing this is set up in the scenario and not the game engine.

Ed


That ship type is not neutered. See my post in your thread on the Tech sub-forum (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4121527).

Alfred

(in reply to Mundy)
Post #: 24
RE: More DBB - 7/23/2016 10:25:27 PM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:37:31 AM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 25
RE: More DBB - 7/24/2016 4:58:36 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
Thank you all.

@witpqs, allright .. 1125.11 .. lots of changes since 1123. Hope there's nothing hiding under a bush somewhere :-)

@chemkid, now I get the Tim Leary thing. John was being his usual obscure self. Wow so many choices. I got the topo map version. I think you called it crunchy and I like crunchy. I also like it that all roads are yellow and all RRs are black. Some of our teams edit road and railroad sizes unmercifully. It's nice not to have to edit the graphics for different road/rr types as well. Very nice and I would jump for very pretty as well.

First on the agenda is the rule book. Can't finalize anything effective without it since the rules define the limits of the operational space. All of the different elements of the scenario must converge within that space. This won't take long having John's notes, but it is mandatory for several reasons, maybe a day or two.

Matt

(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 26
RE: More DBB - 7/25/2016 11:39:34 AM   
chemkid

 

Posts: 1238
Joined: 12/15/2012
Status: offline
.

< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:37:26 AM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 27
RE: More DBB - 7/26/2016 4:21:54 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
Our small scenario rules are rules in the classical sense. They are not house rules, but "the" rules. They are soft and flexible because we use umpires who understand that rules are guidelines for a commander and sometimes need to be broken under critical circumstances. But the rules are the paradigm.

I think of rules as one might think of rules in a miniatures situation. AE is a computer game and many people think that a computer will handle every and all situation that comes up, and if you can do something that the computer allows, it is valid, because who's to say. In a miniatures fleet problem, what's to prevent someone from simply picking up the models of a BC division and placing it 2000y from the opposing carriers and start rolling dice. Nothing. The rules are silent on that kind of behavior. So just because a computer program allows something doesn't mean that it is valid either. Our scenarios are meant for people who wish to delve deeply into the treasures of operational experience and logistical imperatives. There is no way to "win" a DBB scenario. There is only do, or do not; learn, or learn not.

First part, naval TF rules.
Naval Units

.. Task Forces and Ships – This is substantially the same as sections 6.1 and 6.2 of the manual. However, there are additional restrictions to the number and types of ships that can make up certain Task Forces. This is the general case, but particular scenarios may have scenario specific additions and/or revisions.

.. .. Air Combat Task Forces
The TF composition can vary by time period. An ACTF has a maximum of 2 aircraft carriers (of any type) until 1/43, when it may have a maximum of 3, with a further maximum restriction of 2x CVA and 1x CVL. Multiple ACTFs may operate in the same hex, and in concert, but may not be combined into a TF with a CV count >2 (or 3, post 1/43). The rule is based on USN and IJN operational concepts of Carrier Division (CarDiv) and Task Force/Group composition and leadership.
ACTFs are not interoperable by nationality. A US ACTF must only comprise US carriers. Likewise a UK ACTF must only comprise UK carriers. Different nationality ACTFs may operate in the same hex, and in concert, but they must maintain their national internal identity. Both doctrinal and logistic incompatibilities require this rule.

.. .. Amphibious Task Forces
Allied AmphTFs are for the purpose of assaulting enemy bases. An AmphTF may only comprise AK and AP type ships, along with associated LST/LSI/etc vessels. An ordinary x-type vessel may never be included in an AmphTF for any reason. After they become available, AKA and APA ships may substitute for AK/AP.
IJN AmphTFs may only comprise AK/AP types and specific xAKs that have been converted to carry troops and are specifically listed as xAK-t. An ordinary x-type vessel may never be included in an AmphTF for any reason. For the IJN, an AmphTF comprising xAK-t types should include some AK/APs in order to obtain an unload assist.

.. .. Transport Task Forces.
TransTFs move ground units and supply from point-to-point, between friendly bases .They may neither assault nor act in support of an assault. Allied TransTFs are normally comprised of xAP types. The Allied side may use xAK types for ground units in a TransTF but on a restricted basis.
The restriction rule is somewhat complex and depends on circumstances.
a. For moderate length transport of a typical infantry battalion, or an equivalent sized unit, up to 2 xAKs may be used for the unit without invoking the restriction.
b. Where the unit cannot fit on 2 xAKs, the rule defaults to requiring an xAP.
c. For every xAP in the TF, the player may include up to 2 xAKs.
However, air groups should preferentially load on xAKs for transport. An xAK carrying an air group is not counted against the rule.

Japan is unrestricted in its use of unconverted xAKs for transporting units in a TransTF.

More later. Matt



(in reply to chemkid)
Post #: 28
RE: More DBB - 7/27/2016 11:52:33 AM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline
Very interesting, espacially the ACTF formed like carrier divisions, I would use it as HR in a normal CG.

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 29
RE: More DBB - 7/28/2016 12:32:12 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Matt-

I understand your rules and reasoning, will abide by all. As I play H2H or against the AI, have been aware of but never experienced the fragments exploit.

Really like the historical formations and restrictions. I have much to learn.

Thank You, Sir, for your work.



_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> More DBB Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.625