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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> German sub IX

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German sub IX - 7/21/2016 9:13:12 PM

miv792

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Please tell me what specifications should be in the game at the U-boat Type IX / C 41

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RE: German sub IX - 7/21/2016 10:26:47 PM

jmolyson

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I did not find any U-boats in my stock Editor. I therefore used online references and converted the KS type to
a Type IXD. Various Type IX models were deployed, the Type IXD being the most capable.

These boats operated from Penang primarily.

I am sure other Forum members can improved these values, including a better bitmap for the Type IX.

The following values were added to the original KS boat copied from slot 1973:

Name: U-boat Type IXD
Type: SS,no change
Nationality 02 IJN (no German nationality in my stock game)
Bitmap - no change.
Month 1
Year 42 (Earliest possible time)
Upgrade 0
Max Speed 18 (this is surface speed, no parameter for submerged speed)
Cruise speed 12
Endurance 8100
Fuel 214
Maneuver 76
Durability 65
Tonnage 1032
Upgrade Dmg 0 (no real opportunity to upgrade)
Upgrade Delay 0
Upgrade Shipyard 0

Weapons - used Japanese analogs in database for German weapons not in database
1704 (Japanese Type 89 same size as German 21 inch) Number 04 Turrets 04 Facing Front Ammo 4
1704 (Japanese Type 89 same size as German 21 inch) Number 02 Turrets 02 Rear Front Ammo 2
1629 37MM M1933 AAA
1661 10cm deck gun
1657 20cm AAA

Upgrade Delay 21

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Joe

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RE: German sub IX - 7/22/2016 1:28:32 AM

Dili

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Doesn't the game "cruise speed" in case of submarines corrrespond to the submerged speed?

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RE: German sub IX - 7/22/2016 2:52:24 PM

jmolyson

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Frankly I don't know. For the IXD, it would be 4-5 knots rather than a surface speed of 12 knots at cruise.
I took cruise speed to mean best surfaced speed for fuel economy/cruise range. WWII subs did most of their distance travel on the surface.

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RE: German sub IX - 7/23/2016 12:05:28 AM

LoBaron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Doesn't the game "cruise speed" in case of submarines corrrespond to the submerged speed?

No.

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RE: German sub IX - 7/25/2016 3:31:22 AM

Dili

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Thanks.
Wondering how that came up...

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RE: German sub IX - 7/26/2016 8:03:51 PM

LoBaron

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It is one of the gazillion urban legends about WitP AE - and I have no idea how that specific one came up.

But it is one that is pretty easy to debunk, simply compare ingame submarine cruise speeds against any credible source for the types� 'submerged' (whatever that means, let�s assume flank) speeds. The only explanation I have that this is so persistent is that on some hulls the difference between cruise and flank submerged speed is pretty small.

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RE: German sub IX - 7/27/2016 4:52:44 AM

miv792

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Durability 75 these figures come at a real depth of immersion.

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RE: German sub IX - 7/27/2016 7:16:31 PM

jmolyson

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For my post about the Type IX, I used a value of 10% of the crush depth in feet
since this seemed to be approximately how the Japanese submarine durabilities
were calculated. That's my methodology though, since I cross checked it with
the recorded characteristics of several other subs in the game and it seemed
to give relatively accurate numbers.

I have no idea how the game designers themselves calculated durability, or
for that matter exactly what the designers meant for the term "Durability".
Obviously, crush depth calculations only apply to subs, not surface ships in relation to
how durable they are.

A better term might have been "survivability", meaning how much
damage a vessel can sustain before being destroyed or disabled. Like the cruise speed
issue, it would have been nice to have some additional variables
for subs since determining their characteristics.

In any case the submarines in the game seem to perform in a historically-relavant manner,
which is the best you can ask for in a game. I play the stock game, and
generally find it gives a good gaming experience.

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RE: German sub IX - 7/27/2016 9:55:11 PM

scout1

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From: South Bend, In
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http://uboat.net/types/

All kind of German pigboat info here ......

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RE: German sub IX - 7/28/2016 2:00:18 AM

el cid again

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I think you mean IX/C40 - which is one type operating from Penang
(or rarely, in the Indian Ocean but NOT based there):

Speed 19 max/12 knots/cruise (I use nautical miles and knots, convert speeds
and ranges if you use mph and statute miles)

Range 13,850 (nm, not statute miles)

Fwd/Aft TT 4/2 G7a torpedoes 4/4 Fwd/Aft shots

1 37mm Flak (C102) aft (24 shots)

4 20 mm Flak (C38) aft two twins (24 shots)

Fuel 214 tons

"Durability" (has a different function in AE for subs) 59

Belt Armor 19 (= mm of pressure hull, only if you have pressure hulls
in your mod)

Deck Armor 19 (same comment)

Troop Capacity 18

Bulk Cargo Capacity 2

Tonnage 1247

EW 1 Seatakt SS Radar (all sides)

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RE: German sub IX - 7/28/2016 7:04:15 PM

Dili

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Problem with durability and depth is how countries calculated their submarine strength and operational margins they gave. USN didn't gave a big margin between crush depth and operational depth , it was about a factor of 1.5 .

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RE: German sub IX - 7/31/2016 5:23:06 PM

jmolyson

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No, I meant Type IXD2. Not that all the Monson boats made it as far as Penang, some were sunk on the way.

Of the so-called Monson boats operating (or intended to operate) from Penang, the following types are
identified by U-boat.net.

IXC - U509, U511, U514, U506, U516, U510 (6 total)

IXC/40 - U188, U168, U532, U183,U533 (5 total)

IXD2 - U178, U200, U847, U848, U849, U850 (6 total)

XB - U219

Also, you have to look at the chronology of arrivals to decide in which period each type might have been
predominant.

To model the Monson boats accurately in the game, you would need to add each type into the ship classes database
unless differences between the types are trivial.

The Seetakt radar, according to Uboat.net was not particularly successful due to technical problems and location of
the receiver. How well it might have worked so far from home is another factor to consider when crediting it to
a particular class of submarine. U-boat.net lists its maximum range of 7km.

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RE: German sub IX - 8/1/2016 4:23:29 AM

miv792

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Thanks all.

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Sorry for my english

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RE: German sub IX - 8/2/2016 10:47:45 AM

el cid again

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Problem with durability and depth is how countries calculated their submarine strength and operational margins they gave. USN didn't gave a big margin between crush depth and operational depth , it was about a factor of 1.5 .

Correct. The Germans ration was 2:1, the US and British and most others used 1.5:1.
You should set the durability for crush depth, not operational depth. For the Germans
it is a uniform 59 (590 feet). This is much better than the 150-300 feet typical of
other nations in the period.

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RE: German sub IX - 8/2/2016 10:57:59 AM

el cid again

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I-Boat.net has some (probably) political problems. Much of the data (for foreign
vessels in particular) is incomplete. For U-Boats, they are much better, but
there are problems. Possibly the best source in English is the U Boat Fact File
Peter Sharpe ISBN 1 85780 072 9 see midlandbooks@compuserve.com Another good
source is The U Boat Rossler ISBN 0 87021 966 9

Your data have mixed up hull numbers between D2 and D42 classes -
although admittedly they are very similar.

It depends on your assumptions which boats to include. I include every Indian
Ocean patrol, not just Monsoon patrols, but I do not include transport subs - because
there is no mechanism to model how that benefits the Axis. [If it did, it would
probably reward with HI points]

quote:

ORIGINAL: AYAAD

No, I meant Type IXD2. Not that all the Monson boats made it as far as Penang, some were sunk on the way.

Of the so-called Monson boats operating (or intended to operate) from Penang, the following types are
identified by U-boat.net.

IXC - U509, U511, U514, U506, U516, U510 (6 total)

IXC/40 - U188, U168, U532, U183,U533 (5 total)

IXD2 - U178, U200, U847, U848, U849, U850 (6 total)

XB - U219

Also, you have to look at the chronology of arrivals to decide in which period each type might have been
predominant.

To model the Monson boats accurately in the game, you would need to add each type into the ship classes database
unless differences between the types are trivial. Similarly, you have mixed IXC and IXC40 (see U-509 for example).

The Seetakt radar, according to Uboat.net was not particularly successful due to technical problems and location of
the receiver. How well it might have worked so far from home is another factor to consider when crediting it to
a particular class of submarine. U-boat.net lists its maximum range of 7km.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 8/2/2016 11:04:05 AM >

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RE: German sub IX - 8/3/2016 4:41:59 PM

jmolyson

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The hull numbers I gave are from Uboat.net. I didn't check other references as I thought they were the experts.

How do you feel about substituting analogous Japanese weapons for German ones?

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