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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:17:38 PM   
Orm


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2d10 with unlimited divisions? Very attacker friendly.

Say that you at least play with the oil rule? So that, at least, cut-off oil dependant units stay disorganized.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:20:37 PM   
brian brian

 

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though ultimately the Japanese simply flipped one Chinese INF along the Pearl River via Japanese Army aviation ground strikes, which could not affect Chiang Kai-Shek's headquarters dug into the mountains of southern China

The Luftwaffe had similar mixed results battering the Polish cities, flipping an INF in both Danzig and Lodz, with no luck in Warsaw itself.


Meanwhile, in the Gobi Desert the Japanese seemed to have developed some incredible Enduro vehicles to cruise around one of the more inhospitable places on the Earth




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:22:34 PM   
brian brian

 

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but the big shooting war starts in Europe of course, where a certain Baltic city was declared "Free" (Frei?)




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:24:16 PM   
brian brian

 

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for being a "Frei" city, it sure seems a whole lot of blood was spilled. the attackers stagger in confusion after their "victory". but this was the key point that started this new War in Europe, no?

(Both Polish ships escape. Ho-hum).




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:38:34 PM   
brian brian

 

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let's see, what else is happening off-screen?

The Russians set up a Siberian INF corps in each of Blag and Kharb, as I call them. I think of them as Dwarvish strongholds in the Silmarillion I guess. Unpronounceable names in places you can't quite remember. The two cities in far east Siberia that aren't named Vladivostok, or the the new one, either. New cities? Yes, in MWiF these things happen.

Also the CW 'drew well' in that their spies in East Africa correctly urged the Home Office to send a few thousand rifles to the allied tribes in Kenya and Tanganyika, where 2 of their TERR units now await War. As does the N. Ireland Force Orange, or something. Never commanded that unit before.

The French deployed their Algerian garrison along the Moroccan border east of Oran, and set up some other auxiliaries in the totally unimportant deserts of West Africa.

Home Fleet calls Plymouth home these days, with all of their Transport capacity fueled up there in the UK and ready to go. (Wait till you see what the new WiF8 scenario set-up might do to the Fall Gelb strategy....)

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/24/2016 9:48:39 PM   
brian brian

 

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Now then, what will the Allies do after the horrific carnage in Danzig?

The Royal Navy will sail the seas in full force on a Naval for the Commonwealth, patrolling deep into the North Sea with 2 Carriers, 2 Battle Cruisers, and 3 Heavy Cruisers in support. Their diligent scouring of the North Sea proves a failure, until a German Heavy Cruiser with infantry-laden destroyer escorts stumbles square into the middle of the Task Force, seemingly unaware of the War proclamation published shortly before...


Bomber Command is ordered to leave their leaflets targeting the effete Kriegsmarine back at the printers and instead load real bombs to paste the German troop concentrations on the Danish border, which mostly fail, aside from the squadrons of Harrows driving to ground a lone German motorized division well off the border.

The Chicomms adjust their lines somewhat, having ordered their set-up before they knew the glorious 8th Route Army was available for Mao to command.

The Russians also move their ARTillery further up the border, switching places in the port of Odessa with a rare independent unit in the Red Army - an infantry division.

The French, meanwhile, have long studied their options on how to support an Ally in Central Europe. The Navy offers to strike at the Germans right on their front porch in the Baltic, but the Army has a much grander plan - Invade Germany itself! They'll never be able to blow all of the Rhine bridges on time suggest St. Cyr's finest graduates. Vincennes agrees, issuing a proclamation that "With one swift kick, the entire rotten Nazi House of Cards will surely collapse!"

< Message edited by brian brian -- 7/24/2016 9:49:35 PM >

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/25/2016 12:48:02 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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Well Brian...I happened to come here before my e-mail and saw this! Nicely put together!

Invade Germany in 1939? What the?... Hey, it happened in real life (Saar offensive)?

A few notes: You read the Silmarillion too? Awesome book! I'm taking a page out of Col. Glantz's book...remember his report on the Soviet invasion of Manchuria?...and the "lost" Soviet division in the Gobi?...maybe I can do the same?

The photos are pro-Axis only to give Brian a good view as to the placements of Axis forces for set up and the initial German impulse. I'll be providing photos of every front both sides as we go on.

Oh, it looks like I wont be happy with WiF8 (have not seen it yet though)...I don't like restrictions, and the base game is already pro-Allies (which it should be)...I hope they compensated Axis with something?

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/25/2016 12:53:18 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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quote:

2d10 with unlimited divisions? Very attacker friendly. Say that you at least play with the oil rule? So that, at least, cut-off oil dependant units stay disorganized.





Yes, we are playing with oil. I think unlimited divisions is awesome, however I hope we don't prove its broken.



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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/25/2016 11:19:10 PM   
brian brian

 

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WiF8 changes the arrival date of The Queens TRS, iirc, to early in 1940.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 12:13:59 AM   
rkr1958


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I'm interested in the strategy behind the Polish setup. This is the first time I've seen such a strong defense, or in fact any defense, of Danzig. Any insight that you experts can provide behind this would be greatly appreciated.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 5:03:42 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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Ronnie: My guess was that Brian was trying to give the Polish navy the best chance for survival, in addition possibly get the Destroyer flotilla into the 4 box of the Baltic on the Allied turn. I think having the corp he put in Kat in Posen may have helped that cause...although I think he also wanted to keep the Polish air active as long as possible...which having a corp in Kat allows him to do that. These were at least my concerns. Brian?

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 6:14:52 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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These are the options we're using.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 6:55:45 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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France/Germany post Allied impulse 2.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 6:59:34 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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CW North Sea fleet.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 7:02:45 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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CW fleet in Western Med.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/26/2016 7:05:07 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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CW fleet in Eastern Med.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 7:16:30 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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This was the end result of the French attack into Germany. Billotte re-orged two INF in Metz.




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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 7:37:09 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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So now we enter Axis impulse 3 S/O'39. Fair weather everywhere. The CW fleet is sitting out in the Western Med with 5 air-sea factors ready to surprise port strike the Italian fleet next impulse. Italy wont stand for that, and as much as I would like the French to cost the US an entry chit on their DOW vs Italy, the Italian fleet will be at sea, and they don't need the French to get a surprise impulse on them there either. Italy DOW's CW and France (cost one chit). Will do a naval.

Germany DOW's Denmark (no US reaction) to close the Baltic...and begin the Allied payment for attacking into Germany and not getting naval units into the Baltic (other than the USSR doing something, Germany can breath a sigh of relief there). Germany needs the land moves in Poland, Denmark, Germany (begin to repair the southern flank situation), and of course re-org some German reserve units.

Japan will do a combined with an eye on getting HQ-Yam and other stuff out of Japan and into China.

US has 4 chits in the Euro pool (1,1,3,4), zero in the Jap pool.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 1:19:26 PM   
Courtenay


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Um, you do realize what having four French corps in Germany means, don't you? If not, there is a rule you are forgetting.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 2:49:28 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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quote:

If not, there is a rule you are forgetting.





Hmmm...you have me stumped. I've always welcomed French troops to move into Germany from the south, but no one ever took me up on it until now.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 3:57:24 PM   
Orm


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Edit: Forget I said anything.

< Message edited by Orm -- 7/28/2016 3:58:09 PM >


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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 5:10:40 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Ok, I see what it is now. I did a run through all passing until I got to the French DOW step, where its asking if France wants to align Yugo. I look up the rules and there it says 4 French (or CW) corps or more in any adjacent country can align Yugo.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 5:23:26 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Hmmm, Austria is part of Germany. I did not realize that.

I can see the counter attack coming...

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 5:37:58 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Actually, Germany needs to rail two units (to Trieste, and Vienna) in case the counter attack fails (which is likely). The max Germany can get on the counter attack is +8 assuming the ground strikes are 100%.

So much for "Fall Gelb"...at least for now. This should actually be very interesting and fun! Big risk (although less so than for Germany) is what if the Germans roll very well? The best French HQ = bye, bye. However, my dice luck sucks, so...

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 6:58:45 PM   
Centuur


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Well, to be honest, I hope your opponent isn't too upset with the fact that this gambit has been mentioned to early. Or did the French already align Yugoslavia?

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 7:57:45 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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We are at the Axis impulse 3, so France has not yet had the opportunity to align. I hadn't thought that Brian might be upset about this being revealed...perhaps I can just go forward with what my initial plan was? I'll ask him.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 8:50:27 PM   
brian brian

 

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Ugh, browser just ate my response. More later.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/28/2016 11:55:25 PM   
Courtenay


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I mentioned it because I feel that blindsiding someone with a rule they knew nothing about, while it might be a good way to win a game, is not much fun for either party. If someone makes a decision and it is the wrong one, well, that is why we play the game. To make a decision because of pure ignorance, however, is something else again.

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/29/2016 12:05:39 AM   
brian brian

 

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OK so what I was saying was...

Perhaps we have just hit the first point in the AAR where it would be interesting to play out the game with two different decisions rather than two different die rolls.

I would say that rule 19 has been a part of the game for a very long time, and though this game has a whole lot of rules, it is only partially an opponent's fault when another player doesn't know a rule. It's different when a player is learning the rules of course. The possibility in question here does take advantage of a "for all purposes" clause.

So though I hardly want to take advantage of someone not knowing a rule, as that is not a nice way to play a wargame, it would be interesting to see what happens when Adolf had no clue that those pesky Serbians would launch another one of those infamous stabs in the back that Adolf always blames for all of Germany's problems.

Also I would note that I wondered if perhaps I wasn't being set-up to try this line of play by a very experienced German player with a deliberately weak set-up on the Rhine, though not so completely weak that I could do this without a land attack in Germany. The decision does have it's pluses and minuses as I noted in the intro to this AAR, and it was a tough decision, as is so common in this game.

Ultimately a bit of local history where I am at finalized my decision. I have been working in the Allegheny Mountains of Virginia and when I am out on a fuel run for that special no-ethanol 93 octane I need for my chainsaws, I have been studying the beginnings of Stonewall Jackson's first independent military campaign by literally looking at the terrain personally, always a fascinating way to study war, though the forest cover today is usually quite different than during the American Civil War (the geology is the same though). And many Civil War battles became victories or defeats due to operational or strategic concerns beyond the tactical battlefield, ultimately changing wins to losses and vice versa at times. It wasn't Stonewall's decisions at the following battle that convinced me to try this line of French play, but the operational tactic employed by Union Generals Schenk and Millroy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_McDowell

In the long run Jt14 should play it however he wishes and he should probably move on with knowledge of what France can choose to do here on their impulse; before I could respond he asked what "4 corps in Germany" even means and I don't quite wish to take advantage of rules ignorance. I would have answered his question honestly over a face-to-face table game with no communications lag. Or perhaps a Japan/Italy player would have pointed out the possibilities to their lead playing Ally.


In other notes:

I probably won't answer every direct strategy question immediately as we will be playing this game more than once. Eventually I will answer such questions however.

Also not shown is that the German Heavy Cruiser Blucher and the fanatical SS Infantry division that volunteered to ride on the escorting destroyer squadron went forth to the bottom of the North Sea. Blub, blub, blub, the fate of all infantry that dares to approach the shores of Brittania. There was either a 70% or 65% (67.5% ?) chance of that happening - 5 or less for the CW roll OR 4 or less on the German roll (first probability + 1/2 the second probability - how does that work?). Anyway if the Royal Navy deploys correctly with how the rules systems work this will basically happen 2/3 of the time.

The Chinese Kwangtung front had to make an important decision, and it decided to retreat a bit back towards Kwangsi and Hunan.
Edit: to use MWiF spellings.

On the historical note, imagine Hitler's position with OKH if he launched General War, his surprise invasion of the Netherlands was foiled and the specter of Blockade was raised once again, his army staggered in an ugly assault on Danzig, the Serbians took Vienna, and the French began to threaten Munich itself (the birthplace of Nazism?). Hitler got the war started with a nice run of events going his way through the late 30s. If that had ended...

< Message edited by brian brian -- 7/29/2016 1:19:57 AM >

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RE: Groundhog Day AAR - 7/29/2016 5:04:07 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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I think this situation would be very fun to work out. I would like to take the Axis impulse 3 with the assumption that I know nothing of what will happen, and just make the moves I had planned on. As for splitting up the AAR into a branch #2 game would have to begin at German set up to correct the border issue (one or two unit difference only on the western front), then keep everything the same after that including the crappy Danzig roll as well as the Polish navy getting away.

As for the possible invasion of Netherlands, there is always a backup plan.

Rule 19, I knew it could be done in Albania and Greece, and now that I looked at it all adjacent...and I have read the rule (a long while back) and should have known about this. Sometimes it takes a surprising experience (hopefully at the expense of someone other than yourself). I think this AAR has provided value to the readers.

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