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WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat

 
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WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 3/14/2003 5:03:18 AM   
Trigger1027

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/19/2002
Status: offline 		I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
So far I have:
Reasons:
-Allied air support
Events:
-Operation Overlord
-Operation Market Garden
-Cherbourg
-Caen
-Liberation of Paris

Trigger1027
Post #: 1
Re: WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 3/14/2003 5:21:11 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
[B]I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
So far I have:
Reasons:
-Allied air support
Events:
-Operation Overlord
-Operation Market Garden
-Cherbourg
-Caen
-Liberation of Paris

Trigger1027 [/B][/QUOTE]

How bout something simpler but more abstract like "America entering the war?"

Wouldn't things have gone much differently had that been delayed another year or two (or three)??

Anyone think the war in europe could have been won without the Americans?

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Post #: 2
Re: WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 3/14/2003 5:51:54 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
[B]I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
So far I have:
Reasons:
-Allied air support
Events:
-Operation Overlord
-Operation Market Garden
-Cherbourg
-Caen
-Liberation of Paris

Trigger1027 [/B][/QUOTE]

Below is a link to the BBC website that has an essay that should help you a great deal.

In addition:

1) Germany was never fully mobilized for total war until the beginning of 1943, when more people were conscripted, and Speer took over the armaments industries.

2) Too many resources went into too few "super weapons" (such as V-1s, King Tiger tanks, etc). Germany should have mass produced PzIVJs and StuGIVs/Hetzers like the Americans (Shermans) and Soviets (T-34s).

3) Unexpected "side shows" like the Balkans campaign which delayed Barbarossa.

4) The failure of the Germans to press Dunkirk and stop the Allies from evacuating over 300,000 troops.

5) Hitler's personal meddling in the conduct and strategic fighting on the Russian Front.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/how_the_allies_won_1.shtml

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Post #: 3
- 3/14/2003 5:58:42 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		My view is that the Sovites and the British could have done it on their own.

But the iron curtain would probably have been on the French border or even the English Channel.

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Post #: 4
- 3/14/2003 6:22:39 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		The failure to take Moscow was a contributing factor, as well as the German army still relied on horse and carts for supplies !

Dunkirk as well as the battle of Britain.

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Post #: 5
!! - 3/14/2003 11:03:11 AM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
Status: offline 		Oil! Germany didn't have access to the necessary Oil reserves to carry on a mechinized war. As stated above Germany didn't fully mobilize for war until 43 - 44, by that time it was too late, the numbers were against them. Germany's airforce was designed for a short range continental war. Another reason - Hitler! He was insane and stupid as were the entire German General Staff for putting up with his nonsense. Turning the Me-262 into a fighter bomber is an example of his meddling in matters better left for the military planners. Oh yea, don't forget all the resources Hitler comiitted to murdering 6 million + Jews and other "undesirables", definately the behaivor of an INSANE IDIOT.

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Post #: 6
- 3/14/2003 11:03:34 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Malta and Barbarossa are two words that help.

Then racism is one, not liberating the Ukeranians cost them their lebensraum in the east eventually.

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Post #: 7
- 3/14/2003 11:31:36 PM   
Wallenstein

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Most decisive military events:

Stalingrad - loss of the best equipped and trained forces in Russia

White Russia 1944 - destruction of Army Group Center with nearly 380.000 soliders due to Hitlers prohibition to retreat.

D-Day - no need to comment

As for reasons to defeat, let me add:

The failure to prevent a two/more front war.

No standard weapons - too many different types of tanks, planes, infantry weapons with different ammunitions, which lead to inefficiency especially later during the war.

Incompetent military leadership of Hitler.

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Post #: 8
Re: WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 3/15/2003 3:15:31 AM   
Culiacan Mexico

 

Posts: 8348
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Bad Windsheim Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
[B]I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.[/B][/QUOTE] The Oil War contributed to Germany's defeat.

Dr. Hjalmar Horace Greeley Schacht, former German finance minister: "Germany lost the war the day it started. Your bombers destroyed German production, and Allied production made the defeat of Germany certain."

Generaleutnant Adolf Galland, Chief of Fighters, GAF: "In my opinion, it was the Allied bombing of our oil industries that had the greatest effect on the German war potential. Even our supplies for training new airmen were severely curtailed--we had plenty of planes from the autumn of 1944 on, and there were enough pilots up to the end of that year, but lack of petrol didn't permit the expansion of proper training to the air force as a whole.

Thanks mdiehl

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Post #: 9
- 3/15/2003 3:16:26 AM   
SLAAKMAN


Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline 		Here are three reasons why the Axis lost WW2; HITLER, MUSSOLINI, TOJO.
SLAAKATTAK

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Post #: 10
- 3/15/2003 5:46:40 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		reasons:

2 front war
depended fully on quick victories to win
lack of sufficient oil supplies

events:

defeat before moscow
kursk 43
d-day

These are all pretty simply explained and can be easily written about by finding sources, etc. Each event is a signicant event in which you saw the fortunes of germany change in a significant fashion and they also are pretty well documented with their effects.

Reiryc

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Post #: 11
- 3/15/2003 11:01:33 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		How about this?

What if the Germans actually adhered to the Molotov-Ribentropp pact, settled for Western Poland, shelved the iditoic, unrealistic and shockingly evil idea of eliminating the Jews and Slavs? What if they simply DID NOT attack the Soviet Union and simply bought oil from the SU instead of trying to take it?

Now imagine the manpower and resources hemorrhaged on the Eastern Front diverted instead to thousands of Me-109's and FW's and tens of thousands of concrete bunkers on the Atlantic coast of France and the Lowlands staffed with elite troops. :eek:


Imagine Rommel in North Africa with 10 or 15 Pzr. Divisions instead of two converted Infantry Divisions :eek:

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Post #: 12
- 3/15/2003 11:45:48 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		I think Germany had to attack Russia

I Russia had been allowed until 43 or 44 to build up....then they would of attacked Germany.
Germany went in with the initiative and shattered a good portion of the Soviet army but fell just short.


I dont think there is any one reason Germany lost...there are hundreds of small ones that came together to prevent them from winning.

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Post #: 13
- 3/16/2003 12:29:31 AM   
jnier


Posts: 402
Joined: 2/18/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
[B]I think Germany had to attack Russia
I Russia had been allowed until 43 or 44 to build up....then they would of attacked Germany.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I hear people say this alot...but what is there any evidence that suggests this is the case?

The only reason a Soviet-German confronatation was inevitable was Hitler's obsession with "Lebenstraum." Barbarossa was never intended to pre-empt a Soviet attack and what's the evidence that the Soviets would have had any interest in attacking the world's most powerful military?

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Post #: 14
- 3/16/2003 12:57:52 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		If Germany had not attacked Russia, what I think would have happened, would be the world today would be part Communist, part Facist and part overworked America.

The Russians would eventually lock horns with Germany in the interests of global communism. It would then be about communism trying to destabilise German Facism and the facist ideal.

The US would likely be playing a big role, but with Germany big and bad and not about to go anywhere, it would be 3 major powers all hating each other and not being able to get rid of each other more or less.

We would not have Israel and the Arabs would just be arabs. The Japanese would be a wild card. I don't think they would fare well against Russian Communism though.

There is no reason to assume China would be communist though.

Japan might not have locked horns with the US, but the US would be plenty occupied keeping an eye on Germany and Russia.

Britain would likely be a small nobody alongside France both who likely would have lost their colonies thanks to world communism (which was a major obsession with Russia before Germany distracted them for 5 critical years).

Hard to say where Germany might be today, if racism had not caused all their scientific community to run away to the west.

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Post #: 15
- 3/16/2003 1:10:22 AM   
Maliki


Posts: 2217
Joined: 12/25/2002
Status: offline 		Les,it sounds like you should write an alternate history essay on the world divided by three ideologies.I've never heard the what ifs put the way you just did.Its interesting to contemplate to say the least.

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Post #: 16
- 3/16/2003 1:29:53 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks for the vote of confidence:)

Part of every political opinion is dancing through the minefield of objectivity.

American media dominates a lot of perspective occasionally.
That and occasionally a person will forget that the second world war was in fact numerous wars all melded together.

It was WW2.
It was the Great Partiotic War.
It was a war of Facist ideology vs Western Democratic ideals.
It was a war waged for Asian Economic Unification (by force).

It featured numerous colonial territories seeing a chance for freedom/independence.
It featured numerous massive revolutionary scientific breakthroughs
It featured human genocide on a massive scale.

It eventually managed to involve almost every corner of the globe, and influence almost the entire human population of our planet.

In some ways, WW2 as it was known, is still being played out today.
Israel was born out of the Holocaust. Jews are still locked in a struggle to exist.
Korea freed from the Japanese because a pawn of east west friction. Today the forces of communism are still struggling against the western way of government.
There are other examples easily found.

So much of that war, was fought for incredibly poorly thought out justifications.
So many seemingly insignificant political decisions, or military decisions, had such an incredibly profound effect on the big picture.

Stalingrad was an epic battle to be sure. But it was the choice to confront Russia militarily that mattered.
The Battle of Britain was a major event, but might never have happened, if Germany has fortified the West wall first, then tackled Russia with a secure frontier.
The Battle of Midway was a major turning point, but might not have happened, if Japan had never hit Pearl Harbour.

Three big battles, all possibly avoided, merely by a politician making a simple choice.

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Post #: 17
- 3/16/2003 10:42:10 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Interesting Idea about 3 unaligned ideologies, but looking back on European history, 3 or more unaligned roughly equal powers is not a stable situation. There is an almost irresistable tendancy for 2 powers to align to get the leg-up on their rivals.


Does this thing have a spell-check BTW :D

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Post #: 18
- 3/17/2003 4:39:11 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Hard to say where Germany might be today, if racism had not caused all their scientific community to run away to the west. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmm, this is a very interesting point and would make a great topic for a Discovery Channel documentary.

Perhaps the combined loss of some of the most interesting minds of the twentieth century is a topic never really explored? Extraordinary when you think about it and probably never seen before or since.

Brubaker

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Post #: 19
- 3/17/2003 8:51:21 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		One interesting thing about WW2 that doesn't get a lot of press (thanks to the material being really dry and non military in nature).

One of my obsessions is with science. I am as comfortable with theoretical physics, as I am with tank tactics.

Before the war actually got hot, the Nazis, thanks to their obsession with purging jewish science assisted in the ruination of their atomic efforts, by convincing the then scientific minds living in Germany, to seek safer nations to live in.

It was not all this group that made some of the big breaktroughs in the late 40's 50's and 60s of course. Some of the scientists grabbed as Germany collapsed at the end, were definitely influential thinkers.

But picture what might have happened, if some of the men that made the manhattan project hum, had remained in Germany. No these men would not always have worked tirelessly for the Nazi war machine. These men had grave misgivings working for the Allies as well. There were serious worries over fiddling with the atom prior to the first bomb testings.

But thanks to racism, many of the scientisfic community were elsewhere when Germany was seeking the bomb. And the men that were seeking it during the war, were seeking it along roads that were leading nowhere fast.

That is why, most that have studied physics, don't tend to give a lot of interest to notions of a German bomb project with racism intact. If the war had lasted 5 more years, there is no reason to assume the germans would have gotten the bomb.

They were not having a lot of problems perfecting jets and rockets though. But they would have had to settle for conventional munitions in them.

And the Russians, well I suppose they would have had to get them through spies like they in fact did on numerous occasions.

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Post #: 20
Re: WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 3/18/2003 6:08:27 AM   
davewolf

 

Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/14/2002
From: On world conquest.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
[B]I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Why Germany lost?

To second P. Kennedy, since there was no serious hope (besides delusions) to lead (and win) a "World Blitzkrieg" - How to conquer Russia (or even the US) in a few months? - it ended up in an attritional lengthy coalition war. And such wars are always won by the side being superior in numbers of men and material. Guess which side that was?

Events?

How about 9/1/39 (beginning of the war)?

They would only have had a chance with very limited goals (like say reconquest of the 'corridor'). Not realistic with Hitler in charge...


Just my 2 Euro cents...

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Post #: 21
Thanks - 4/16/2003 5:37:58 AM   
Trigger1027

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/19/2002
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone who posted. I used the following reasons/events to complete the essay and ended up with 1 266 words of disgust at Hitler's personal meddling. The thesis was "Hitler's personal meddling into everything majorly contributed to the defeat of Germany."
I have yet to receive a mark but I will post it with the complete essay when I receive the mark.
REASONS:
[list]
  • Germany was never fully mobilized for war until 1943
  • Germany wasted resources
  • Allied bombing campiagns
  • Hitler's personal meddling into tactical affairs
    [/list]
    EVENTS:
    [list]
  • Stalingrad Defeat
  • Operation Overlord
    [/list]
    Again, I express my thanks for everyone who suggested any topics.
    Thanks,
    Trigger1027

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    • Post #: 22
    - 4/16/2003 3:08:53 PM   
    Belisarius


    Posts: 4041
    Joined: 5/26/2001
    From: Gothenburg, Sweden
    Status: offline     		May I add another event?

    * The failure to seize Moscow in November -41. If Moscow had fallen, the psychological impact had been tremendous on the Soviet people. Also, Moscow was/is a logstical and adminstrative hub - losing those functions would have been devastating.



    Personally, I don't think Dunkirk was that important to the outcome of the war. The major part of the British Army's equipment was lost anyway and could not be replaced for a long time. The rescue of 300.000 men could have proven decisive if Operation Sealion had been realized, but they still lacked armor.

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    Post #: 23
    Re: WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat - 4/17/2003 7:19:09 AM   
    Mad Cow


    Posts: 3374
    Joined: 7/31/2002
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
    [B]I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
    So far I have:
    Reasons:
    -Allied air support
    Events:
    -Operation Overlord
    -Operation Market Garden
    -Cherbourg
    -Caen
    -Liberation of Paris

    Trigger1027 [/B][/QUOTE]

    Look East, young man...

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    Post #: 24
    Re: Thanks - 4/17/2003 7:20:54 AM   
    Mad Cow


    Posts: 3374
    Joined: 7/31/2002
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
    [B]Thanks to everyone who posted. I used the following reasons/events to complete the essay and ended up with 1 266 words of disgust at Hitler's personal meddling. The thesis was "Hitler's personal meddling into everything majorly contributed to the defeat of Germany."
    I have yet to receive a mark but I will post it with the complete essay when I receive the mark.
    REASONS:
    [list]
  • Germany was never fully mobilized for war until 1943
  • Germany wasted resources
  • Allied bombing campiagns
  • Hitler's personal meddling into tactical affairs
    [/list]
    EVENTS:
    [list]
  • Stalingrad Defeat
  • Operation Overlord
    [/list]
    Again, I express my thanks for everyone who suggested any topics.
    Thanks,
    Trigger1027 [/B][/QUOTE]

    Why don't you post the essay as an attachment?

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    • Post #: 25
    - 4/17/2003 8:56:36 AM   
    Fallschirmjager


    Posts: 6793
    Joined: 3/18/2002
    From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
    Status: offline     		When ever I talked to my uncle (German paratrooper) he told me Stalingrad was the crushing blow of the war

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    Post #: 26
    - 4/17/2003 11:36:11 PM   
    Mad Cow


    Posts: 3374
    Joined: 7/31/2002
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
    [B]When ever I talked to my uncle (German paratrooper) he told me Stalingrad was the crushing blow of the war [/B][/QUOTE]

    No doubt. The Germans lost an entire Army which they could certainly not afford to lose.

    They still could have possibly won after that. But I think they would have needed a status quo peace with the US and Britain to be able to do anything againstthe Soviets.

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    Post #: 27
    Essay - 4/18/2003 10:56:56 PM   
    Trigger1027

     

    Posts: 19
    Joined: 3/19/2002
    Status: offline     		due to popular demand, Here is the final version of the essay
    drum roll please....

    Attachment (1)

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    Post #: 28
    Re: Essay - 4/18/2003 11:45:47 PM   
    Mad Cow


    Posts: 3374
    Joined: 7/31/2002
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trigger1027
    [B]due to popular demand, Here is the final version of the essay
    drum roll please.... [/B][/QUOTE]

    Sweet! I will let you know what i think...

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    Post #: 29
    - 4/19/2003 12:15:18 AM   
    SLAAKMAN


    Posts: 2725
    Joined: 7/24/2002
    Status: offline     		Very interesting and to the point Trigger. I hope you get an "A" on your report. I would add another significant event that contributed to the downfall of the axis and that would be to point out the critical significance of Hitlers decision before the Munich Conference. When Hitler decided not to seek a solid alliance with Britain and created the Axis with Italy, he spelled his own doom. That decision decided his fate more than any other.

    I would also point out that as in all wars the outcome could have been dramatically altered if the Germans had actually decided to use the nerve agent, "Tabun" and Japan had deployed their bioweapons. The allies had no defense against Tabun and the losses on the Russian front might have been staggering. Dropping the atomic bomb was wreckless also since Japanese retaliation using biological warfare against China and Russia wouldve resulted in millions of allied deaths. Forutunately by that point the axis was so exhausted physically and emotionally that a resolve to escalate the war to this point was no longer present.

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    Post #: 30
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