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Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End (No Pelton)

 
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Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End (No Pelton) - 7/18/2016 9:52:48 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		This will be my first AAR, and who better to play for the first AAR than Pelton himself...

The AAR will be somewhat different from most AAR's. If for nothing else then for me uploading zipfiles for each turn with the AAR info.

Pelton has agreed not to read this AAR and he will post his own delayed AAR in a few turns. I would humbly ask, that if you decide to read either AAr to refrain from posting in the other (no armchair generals here with all info available at their fingertips please.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Dinglir -- 9/12/2016 8:42:00 PM >

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
Post #: 1
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/18/2016 10:26:45 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Good first part of the AAR, will be very helpful when I one day use all my self discipline to start playing the soviet side
Good read.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 2
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/19/2016 2:47:17 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

This will be my first AAR, and who better to play for the first AAR than Pelton himself...

The AAR will be somewhat different from most AAR's. If for nothing else then for me uploading zipfiles for each turn with the AAR info.

Pelton has agreed not to read this AAR and he will post his own delayed AAR in a few turns. I would humbly ask, that if you decide to read either AAr to refrain from posting in the other (no armchair generals here with all info available at their fingertips please.


Good Luck Dinglir :)

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 3
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/19/2016 9:14:37 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Good Luck Dinglir :)


Thanks. Going to need it I guess

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 4
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/20/2016 11:55:36 AM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Great AAR, congrats!

I agree about Fortified units but I'm not so sure for the AT brigades, early German tanks are vulnerable and they can be useful in the right place; I would save Motorised and Armored divisions until refitted and for later employment.
Air warfare: I like your thoughts and don't putting everything under the reserve, always had a bad feeling with this "tactic".
I'm not an experienced player therefore my suggestions can be wrong!

In general, very nice write-up

Subscribed!

Question: your Excel is very good, do you have the German equivalent or something similar?

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 5
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/20/2016 9:11:39 PM   
RKhan


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/17/2016
From: My Secret Bunker
Status: offline 		Your study and detailed analysis is impressive. Good Luck, Kill Germans!

_____________________________

RKhan

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 6
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/20/2016 10:19:58 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlessandroD
Question: your Excel is very good, do you have the German equivalent or something similar?


I do have an Axis version of my spreadsheet.

However, I have decide to keep it private until I get around to doing my first Axis AAR (probably when my game vrs Pelton is over).


_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 7
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/21/2016 8:29:33 AM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline 		No problem at all, thanks anyway

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 8
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/21/2016 11:18:23 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn two is up.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 9
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/21/2016 12:21:28 PM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
Status: offline 		Props for putting in this effort to make a readable AAR, nice change of pace from screenshots that are larger than 1900x1200 :)

Please know that it is very much enjoyed!

Good luck in the game and you are inspiring me to have a go at Soviet side of things

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 10
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/21/2016 12:31:49 PM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Nice again and nice avatar too, Bonvi would agree.

I think can be useful for you add a sheet with the factory evacuation status, and maybe set your objectives (i.e. I need X amount of vehicles, y of armaments, etc.)

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 11
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/22/2016 4:05:35 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn three.

I will be going on a week long holiday now, so nomore turns will be posted until next weekend.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 12
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/22/2016 4:08:03 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlessandroD
I think can be useful for you add a sheet with the factory evacuation status, and maybe set your objectives (i.e. I need X amount of vehicles, y of armaments, etc.)


I will give it some thought for sure.

I haven't set any "I will surrender if I lose X factory points" rules for myself. I intend toplay on as long as I realistically can conduct a proper defense.

For now my focus is to salvage what can be salvaged and then I shall see where I stand come winter.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to AlessandroD)
Post #: 13
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/22/2016 8:59:08 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

Turn two is up.

I'm sure you are aware that you can actually see the Axis rail network by hovering over the rail line. You will get one of three results, you are looking for the one that says Axis Rail 1 which means that a FBD just repaired that hex this turn. Follow the trail and you will see which hexes have been converted this turn. In the Baltic states the Axis can convert 6 a turn and elsewhere(terrain permitting) 4 per turn.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 14
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/22/2016 10:08:17 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I'm sure you are aware that you can actually see the Axis rail network by hovering over the rail line. You will get one of three results, you are looking for the one that says Axis Rail 1 which means that a FBD just repaired that hex this turn. Follow the trail and you will see which hexes have been converted this turn. In the Baltic states the Axis can convert 6 a turn and elsewhere(terrain permitting) 4 per turn.


Well, I know now.....

Thanks for the info. It will help quite a lot actually.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 15
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/30/2016 4:47:07 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn four.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 16
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/31/2016 12:46:06 AM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
Status: offline 		Hi Dinglir,

I would like to give some constructive feedback:

I have never played Soviets, only Axis, so takes this with a grain of salt . You are doing a few things that an Axis player really likes in the first 4 turns; you are very concerned with force preservation and forming neat lines of defence. This results in you giving up space, but as you are not forcing the Axis player to burn MPs, not winning time; He can just follow his plan. You are also withdrawing to positions without any previous forces digging in it

When I look at your starting situation in the North for turn 4:



My considerations would be as follows:
- OK, major crisis, what now?
- At least I can cripple the flow of supplies with just 2 divisions
- I can see at least one extra Pz Corps here, he must be weaker in the centre, what do I do with this intel?
- I must hold the volkhov to protect ladoga ports, and it is a major river with swamps and requires infantry to cross reliably. Behind the volkhov, there is literally nothing but woods.

The first couple of turns should have a very strong mathematical driving force:

- Opponent is more mobile
- Hence withdrawing without fighting to the next line enablesthe opponent to capitalise on his edge in mobility and will only result in your defences to be outmanoeuvred.
- To even out the playing field it is crucial that I use some units to burn movement points (screening), especially in favourable terrain (blocking forces in swamps/rough are a nightmare for axis players, especially if rivers are also involved).
- The objective is to enable your main force that is being screened to dig. Withdrawing to a line that was not previously digging is only useful when the Axis player reaches the absolute limit of supply.

Again, I don't know the constraints of the Soviet side so I could be completely wrong, but having to had to deal with effective screening; it really is a big pain in the ass and forces choices. By the way, forcing difficult choices is my overall strategy in any war game :)




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 17
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/31/2016 9:00:04 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Aditia.

If you are referring to conducting a pincer movement by two divisions meeting up at Plyussa, I did consider making the attempt.

However, as the Soviet morale at this point in time is pretty poor, it would cost me about five extra MP's to move adjacent to an enemy division. When you combine this with the low Soviet MP in 1941, I believe that a prerequisite for success of the pincer movement is that the German unit two hexes out from Plyussa is not a fighting unit. If it is, I do not belive I would have the MP's to conduct the attack cutting off German supplies.

What the image I posted does not show is the 20 recon attampts I did in order to find out the unit type of that unit (they all failed). I do realize that I could just open Pelton's AAR and see it for myself (before the game, he told me I could read it if I wanted to). I consider that to be "gamey" though, and so I refrain from doing that. I've read the thread, but I ignore the images Pelton posts.

So, I was faced with the uncertainty of the unit type. It could be an airfield, but that would have shown to my 20 or so Recon attempts. It could be an HQ, but the HQ's have a lot of MP's so why would the Germans place it unprotected when there is no need to? Finally, it could be an infantry division. I believe it is and based on the advances of other infantry divisions south of Lake Ilmen it is more than likely that infantry could be in that position to cover the southern flank of the German spearhead.

Finally, I decided against making the attempt, as it would likely cost me two divisions and in the unlikely event of success (I rated it below 5% at that point) it would give me one turn of supply cutting for the German spearhead. The math simply didn't add up, and I decided against trying the move.

Please note, that I'm not saying that I made the right decision here. I simply state my arguments for making the decision I did, and I will leave it up to you to decide for yourself if you think I was right or wrong.

I do agree with you in that this game is about forcing the hard decisions on your opponent, but I also believe force preservation during the first few turns allows me to do that much more effectively later on. This belief is based on my current experience level and may change at a later point. If I did do a forward defense at this point in time, I would just risk major encirclements and throwing the campaign in a few short turns.

But my level of aggression may well change now. I have received turn five from Pelton, and although I haven't yet made any in depth analysis of the situation, I do think I have a few options for shifting gear.

We will see.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 18
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/31/2016 4:34:59 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn five.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 19
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/31/2016 6:51:22 PM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
Status: offline 		Interesting read Dinglir. Did you contain the Finns at the Janis line? Or are they on the loose in Karelia? Also remember on the Volkhov line, the single objective he has is to cut off the ports (only Sviritsa is behind the Volkhov if I remember correctly).

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 20
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 7/31/2016 8:17:33 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		I must admit that last turn I did not expect a German panzer attack on Leningrad. If I were German, I would have left simply a holding force in place while attacking the Volkhov in full force with my panzers (in order to reach Sviritsa and prepare for the attack on Moscow). Because I expected this to happen, I decided to pull back full speed east of Lake Ladoga and so I din't stop at Janisjarvi. When the Volkhov attack did not materialize, holding at Janisjarvi was to late.


_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 21
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/3/2016 6:43:00 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn six

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 22
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/7/2016 8:12:53 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn seven.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 23
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/14/2016 6:29:15 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn eight.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 24
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/21/2016 4:11:19 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn nine

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 25
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/21/2016 9:49:37 PM   
Aditia

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
Status: offline 		Oh my, that's quite a pickle you find yourself in sir.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 26
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/22/2016 5:34:05 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		I know.

The thing is, I have never been playing an experienced German before (Except for a few turns against HardLuckYetAgain). I have been looking over some of my earlier PBEM games, and in those the soviets were in FAR better shape at the end of the mud, than they are now vrs Pelton. Basically, I find myself playing a completely new opening against an experienced player who has played this exact opening 50 times before.

I'm clearly the less skilled of the two players in this game.

I guess some players would just surrender and start up another game, hoping for better "luck" against another opponent. However, I'm not a quitter, and I will not surrender unless I lose Leningrad, Moscow, Voroneszh and Rostov in 1941. Those were my "surrender" settings prior to beginning the game, and I will stick to them, trying to learn all I can in the process.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 27
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/22/2016 5:45:40 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Nice spreadsheet and analysis. A few stray thoughts.

Motorcycle regiments are truck consumers. A sapper regiment does just as well as a CV booster. No real value in sapper battalions either. By end of '41 I've disbanded them and the squads find their way into newly formed regiments.

You don't need the LaGG-3 -11 series. But if you has a few rail points to burn, ok.

RR Construction brigades belong in Front HQs. They are pretty expensive in manpower, so keep that in mind.

If you want heavy guns, check out the 41 Army Artillery Regiment. It has more bang than a Heavy Gun Regiment.

You could do with more recon regiments. If in fact you have 6 regiments, consider doubling up at a minimum. There are types available other than the SB-2R.

I find the BAKs very problematic. Their aircraft often aren't willing to go where you want them. I would keep all tac air under bases belonging to front air commands/air armies. If you have say 5 bases of 20, for 5 APs in a pinch you can transfer 500 aircraft to a front you want them at.

(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 28
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/22/2016 11:54:31 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		M60A3TTS: Good points and good questions.

1) I have honestly not considered the truck cinsumption of my motorcycle support units. I have simply noticed, that I have a quite few of them back at STAVKA, and I have been thinking of ways to use them. I have decided to assign a few to a Front HQ, not so much for their CV, but more for their capacity to cause losses on the Germans. This is nothing but a test, and considering your points regarding truck use, they will probably go back to STAVKA before long.

2) My use of sappers are not really meant to boost CV's only, but also to help in building fortifications (my understanding is that Army HQ will deploy them to armies during logistics in order to help with this). I will probably start to disband them myself, as I want more "power" in the Support units I assign for winter attacks than a sapper batallion can provide.

3) The LAGG-3 '11 Series' production har been moved (one point). This is because it will be upgraded to other types of planes.

4) I have tried to send a few RR Costruction units forward in order to help with rail repair on those critical sectors, but as no rail repair wil lhappen with Germans within five hexes, there is little chance of this occurring. In the south, I just now put a few on the Southern Front, just in case the Germans should decide to encircle Stalino (breaking all rail) and then pull back to their supply lines.

5) I don't really want heavy guns in anything but my strongest armies. Heavy guns are expensive to build, and by reassigningn them to STAVKA, I hope to avoid losing a lot of them in the general withdrawal. Once I need heavy "punch" armies on a solidified front or in some desperate situation, I will reassign them forward.

6) The Luftwaffe has basically not been present at the front line for the entire game. The reasoning for this appear to be that their absence frees up a lot of trucks for German ground units. IT also means that I lose relatively few Recons, and I have not felt any real need to build more recon units up unitl this point. But, as the Luftwaffe is being moved forward by now, I guess this may soon change.

7) The reason for chosing a BAK to command my elite airforces is that I don't want to risk losing them in support of ground battles. I would rather control where I risk them. I can still reasign the individual airfields under the BAK if need be. I am considering a change in tactics.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 29
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 8/25/2016 5:42:15 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn ten.

I apologize for the missing pictures. The pdf file was over the allowed file size, and wouldn't upload.

So here's a question for the reader(s): Which is better, fewer images or smaller ones (harder to see details)?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 30
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