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Kamikaze tactics - 8/27/2016 2:54:51 AM   
panzer cat

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/2/2011
From: occupied Virginia
Status: offline 		I assume that low level bombing is the skill needed. Any ideas on tactics, altitude settings etc....



scott
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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/27/2016 4:01:10 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		No clue, but I'm curious.

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/29/2016 4:30:25 PM   
Andav

 

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Train Naval Attack at 1000 ft. Do not expect much. What CAP does not get, AA usually will take care of the rest. They seem to work well against merchants and such. They can also take on DDs but they are very hard to hit. CVEs are good targets provided you get through CAP. I am not sure I have hit a CL with one yet but I think it would be effective. Against a TF with CAP, you will need to launch hundreds at once in order to get through. They bounce off anything a CA or larger including most CVs. The problem is getting through the CAP and then the AA and then hitting something moving pretty fast.

Wa

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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/31/2016 2:47:24 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

They bounce off anything a CA or larger including most CVs.


What about the ones that can carry an 800kg bomb?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 4
RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/31/2016 4:07:40 AM   
panzer cat

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/2/2011
From: occupied Virginia
Status: offline 		I'm curious if the alt setting during the atk matters. I'd like to set all attackers including kami's at the same alt to improve coordination. Andav you are right about allied cap, it's tough to penetrate.

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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/31/2016 2:08:22 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		So, there are a lot of threads on this, trying searching for more details.

Attack Alt: matters in the context of helping you get through the CAP ... attack where the defenders aren't.

Attack profile: like TB is set once you choose kami, incoming altitude doesn't affect the attack profile.

Hitting CV's is hard, but not more than you would expect. What's hard in a PBEM is that the allies create a deathstar, not that much unlike what the allies actually did historically in the late war (as opposed to the early war). The deathstar now has a CAP of +1000 ac alone that you have to be able to penetrate ... that means you need 2x that to have good chances to have meaningful hits ... 2000 ac minimum is a lot of aircraft to assemble, coordinate, and launch within attack range of the deathstar. Let me put it another way, 2000 ac = ~50 air groups ... a ton. Against the AI, things are much easier as it will rarely mass more than 2 CV's in a TF. That means ~100 fighters in CAP and so ~200 AC attacks have a good chance.

Finally, although it has been tweaked and optimized as best as possible by the devs, the air combat model struggles with combats involving more than a few hundred aircraft combined. Be aware that you can, and likely will, see some 'unusual' outcomes if/when you achieve a 2000 ac .vs. 1000 CAP attack ....

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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 8/31/2016 4:17:53 PM   
Andav

 

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quote:

What about the ones that can carry an 800kg bomb?


I assume these will penetrate pretty much everything. I have not had any get through CAP.

We are March 31st, 1945.

Looking in Tracker, I have 7 ships sunk by Kamikaze. The largest is CL De Ruyter. I guess this proves they do work against CLs! 5 are DDs. Three are Dutch DDs. Apparently, the Dutch had a bad day on Oct 1st, 1944. There is one APA as well. I know I have damaged a lot of ships with Kamikazes. I thought there was a CVE in this mix but maybe it did not sink or it has not showed up yet or it was hit by something else after the Kamikaze so that device gets credit for the sinking. Who knows ...

Wa

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RE: Kamikaze tactics - 9/1/2016 12:23:56 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

quote:

What about the ones that can carry an 800kg bomb?


I assume these will penetrate pretty much everything. I have not had any get through CAP.

We are March 31st, 1945.

Looking in Tracker, I have 7 ships sunk by Kamikaze. The largest is CL De Ruyter. I guess this proves they do work against CLs! 5 are DDs. Three are Dutch DDs. Apparently, the Dutch had a bad day on Oct 1st, 1944. There is one APA as well. I know I have damaged a lot of ships with Kamikazes. I thought there was a CVE in this mix but maybe it did not sink or it has not showed up yet or it was hit by something else after the Kamikaze so that device gets credit for the sinking. Who knows ...

Wa


The results you're showing don't seem too outta wack with reality, but not enough info to get a clear picture. How many young sons of Nippon have been sent to their deaths in this manner to date? Also what were the size of the raids?


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 8
RE: Kamikaze tactics - 9/1/2016 1:52:32 PM   
Andav

 

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I do not know how many where "Willing to die for the Emperor". I have not kept track of the numbers. I have not gotten near the 2k number Pax is talking about needing to penetrate CAP. I really try to limit my attacks on the roving Death Stars (yes witpqs has multiple at this point) but the staff sometimes makes mistakes.

Wa

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Post #: 9
RE: Kamikaze tactics - 9/1/2016 4:12:14 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

quote:

What about the ones that can carry an 800kg bomb?


I assume these will penetrate pretty much everything. I have not had any get through CAP.



I have had some get thru...but they don't seem as effective as normal diveboming.

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Post #: 10
RE: Kamikaze tactics - 9/1/2016 4:24:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Kamaikazes against fresh warships are tough to get hits...

Late war Allied warship's flak with full ammo and fuel make daunting targets.

If the ships start to run low on ammo it is a lot easier to make hits.

I have had perfect attacks with trained kamikazes (70 LowN) and missed everytime.

I think the plane has some bearing on it's effectiveness as a kamikaze and that is not really talked about enough.

It is difficult to assign fighter squadrons to kamikaze use since you generally need every fighter squadron. FB are easier, and Nicks seem to do very well. Two engines though...

Judy makes for a potentially very hard hitting kamikaze with a big payload, fast speed, etc.

Jill gives you longer range.

Could Ann or Mary or Sonia make for a decent kamikaze? Their attraction is that they can be built from day one and stockpiled and benefit from very long production runs. Will they be any good....perhaps at depleting CAP of Flak ammo so oher kamikazes can get thru? Puny payloads? I have seen one Zero kamikaze with teeny bombs destroy a BB's 16" gun turrent...not that shabby.

A very high altitude kamikaze can potentially fly over the CAP, but the only times that has worked for me was in conjunction with lower level attacks.

Generally, I suck at using kamikazes.

Their best target are cargo ships and CVE.


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Post #: 11
RE: Kamikaze tactics - 9/2/2016 2:06:49 AM   
bigred


Posts: 3599
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		Last turn in the yellow sea.
Had some Kami hits that did not sink.
This is a 2day turn game.
Had more problem as allied player the second day as IJAAF became more coordinated.
Also brought 2x AE for sea reloads.
Lesson learned is bring all your AEs as resupply on 2xAE for one amphib TF is 250 ops points.
I did place one sqn at 5000ft.
Will add another sqn at 1000ft.
I only have a 400 plane cap.
The KB went to singers.
Alot of dead jap planes. Hoping FatR does not come back for more next turn.




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< Message edited by bigred -- 9/2/2016 2:33:08 AM >

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400

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